Bruce Lee vs Muhammad Ali. Who would win. and other unanswerable questions.

originally posted by: Mugly
remy is not my favorite fighter but i would have liked to see him fight bruce.

this dude is nasty. from lithuania. similar size to bruce. i think he would have rocked lees world

remigijus morkevicious

Damn.
What a fighter.
Fierce.

Outright batters most of his own weight,takes punishment like a champ from much bigger opponents,then lays the hammer down.

That dude could probably spoil Ali and Lee's day at the same time.

a reply to: nonspecific

No clue honestly. I do know that Ali Was Lee's hero and Role Model. Lee thought Ali was the greatest fighter in the world for many reasons and said so often in interviews.

a reply to: Rikku

Chi sau. Ok. It's basically a sensativity drill composed of the wing chun techniques bong sau and tan sau. The goal is to load your body against your opponent doing the same thing and look for or sense weaknesses in your opponents structure that will give you the opening needed to initiate an attack. Basic proprioception training. At a beginner level, what Bruce learned and proliferated, is you and your partner load against each other left arm in bong sau right in tan and roll back n firth looking for a momentary weakness in your partner you can exploit for an attack.

This is what passes for chi sau in many martial arts schools and it is on a basic surface level.

Intermediate chi sau the partners try and go for a strike the instant they feel structural decoherence in their partner. Usually looks like a second or so of rolling arms back n forth then some slappy face. But the idea is,to waste little time, its not a game of roll back n forth with your friend. It's a crap we are in a clinch or clash and I need to pass their gaurd immediately and get on with shutting them down.

That's the actual chi sau. When played its not a drill going back n forth. It's more like hubud or Khalid latihan where you clinch, parry counter strike having found your opening by exploiting or creating a structural weakness in your opponent. It's a drill and tool to deal with a momentary transition in the fight as you change ranges and need to pass the gaurd while upright. But instead it's usually treated like some mythical sacred exercise where thou learn this magical sensativity power by passively to semi aggressively roll your arms back and forth with your opponent. And they totally are clue less as to why the drill exists, what it's intended to address and the combative application of it. it ends up as devorced from its roots and application as yang style tai chi.

As for the basics of what Bruce Lee taught in Jun fan being begginers hakka style kung fu and arts look no further than Jun fans first form ung moon. It's an excellent routine. It's using wing chun stance and power generation as its basis, but 50 pet cent Iif more of the techniques are all basic hakka arts, stemming from the local popular arts in that region of China before. If you have a trained eye and can see the details compare the techniques to say a typical hybrid hakka routine of sek si (showcases a lot of typical hakka methods )

a reply to: r0xor

thanks for that.
it was hilarious

a reply to: BASSPLYR
what a load of # .
tell me the difference between lop sau and pak sau, and i'l leave you alone.

youre full of #

a reply to: nonspecific

Ali in a boxing match or other sporting match. Bruce Lee was supposedly around 130lbs at the time of his death. Ali fought around 236lbs. There are weight classes for a reason.

Lee in an actual fight to the death. Lee was an expert at many different weapons and real fights have no rules. Lee could kill him with a projectile before Ali even knew the "fight" had started. After all, there's no cheating, low blows, cheap shots, or sucker punches in an actual fight to the death.

Not gonna get into a style vs style debate but c'mon man; the whole "your style has too many rules" thing is ridiculous.

Sure you can kick in the balls, I have feet too like most people and really it doesn't take a tremendous amount of training to do; my friend's daughter has inadvertently mastered it at 4 years old without having to stand on her head for a days on end in a shaolin temple.

a reply to: Rikku

Ok. Lap sau is basically a pat or grasp with your palm. It's used in chi sau as a trapping mechanism. For me its easy to defeat using bong sau since bong allows for you to rotate out of the trap. but bong sau also leads to a lap sau and counter punch in response. Lap sau is, similar in real life execution as kali tapi tapi or panglibut. But panglibut is also similar to fook jow which would be toeing the line with kali's waslick. The difference being waslick is more of a slinging motion and panglibut or fook sau is more of a hooking motion for a trap and lap sau is more of a pat down or press where pak is more of a simple slapping parry. Can also see better examples of lap sau In wrestling or judo or aikido than in wing chun. Very common technique even boxers will do it from time to time depending.

Another example of lap sau would be to cut across the center line with your forearm much like pan'estas in kali. That will allow you to trap and press against your opponents centerline while simultainiously pushing them off their centerline orientation. But if your going to do that you mine as well go for the finger eye Jab and call it bui ji.

Lap sau also can be used in a pulling motion. Catch your enemy off balence and Lap sau with a counter punch following so they are in effect being pulled into the strike.

Pak sau is a simple parry, or slap. You slap out of the way the incoming punch. Takes your opponant offf centerline. Lends well to traingular footwork and getting to the outside gate misaligning your attacker. A better usage of pak sau would be to do what any boxer would do. Using the female triangle footwork and a Parry(pak sau), rotar parry and right cross for the easy knock out. or go into a right upper cut cutting across centerline if your footwork brought You to the right ranging leading to a puter Kapala or gaja style take down. A split entry in kali is another good usage of pak sau. Notice the pak say will keep your opponant off centerline and you outside their upper gate. But at any point you can use the lap sau to re engage center line trap and press forward. You can easily go back and forth between the two techniques. However generally if i pak sau with the female triangke I'll immediately go into po pai and launch the guy if I am not comfortable Iif feeling the rear cross or over hand.

But what about you what's your opinion and perspective between the two.

a reply to: Rikku

Also while were at it id like to hear your input on wing chun. What are your thoughts regarding the original main land version and the hong kong version. To get the conversation going I'd say the hong kong version focuses on the centerline too much losing sight of the forest for the trees. Whereas foshan wing chun has more long bridge and long range techniques to close the gap. the footwork is looser too allowing for better flanking. there is also of note less strict adherence in elbow placement along the center line when striking or blocking. to me it makes the original art more dynamic and adaptive than the condensed yip man/Hong Kong version of it that most of the world knows.

So my beef is that Bruce Lee actually knew very little of the art and claimed to understand it all and its failings and created a whole new art without being a master of even one. If I go to Jimmy Bob's tae kwon do school and get a yellow belt then move to another city open up a new school based mostly around Jimmy Bob's tae kwon do. Called it something different, threw in a smattering of other stuff in the area at the time i picked up, threw on a black belt and called my self the most profound martial artists of my time, while persuing an acting career you would see a problem with that right?

In an actual fight it would not be close, Ali would have broken bones in about 15 seconds. Anyone with a ground game will destroy an opponent who does not.

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse

originally posted by: Mugly
remy is not my favorite fighter but i would have liked to see him fight bruce.

this dude is nasty. from lithuania. similar size to bruce. i think he would have rocked lees world

remigijus morkevicious

Damn.
What a fighter.
Fierce.

Outright batters most of his own weight,takes punishment like a champ from much bigger opponents,then lays the hammer down.

That dude could probably spoil Ali and Lee's day at the same time.

That guy is actually kind of crappy compared to the best.

Look up ...

Jose Aldo
Frankie Edgar
Chad Mendes
Conor McGregor

The best MMA fighter of all time would be ..

George St. Pierre
Anderson Silva (caught taking steroids)

And to some Fedor Emelianenko (fought crap competition, had a lot of wins vs. nobodies)

If you like TMA (traditional martial arts) you can look up Lyoto Machida.

Conor. You can skip to about 50 seconds in.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

None of them back then were very well rounded.

a reply to: nonspecific

Bruce Lee. Anyone who could play ping pong with nunchucks isn't somebody you want to go up against. The guy was fast.

Besides that, boxers telegraph their punches. A good boxer is able to tell when a punch is coming and from what hand. Bruce Lee's attacks were spontaneous and without telegraphing.

He'd take Ali by surprise every time.

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: nonspecific

Bruce Lee. Anyone who could play ping pong with nunchucks isn't somebody you want to go up against. The guy was fast.

I am hoping you are joking. That video is obviously extremely fake.

a reply to: nonspecific

I think Bruce would be to fast, but I do see your point. One hit and he's done. And again, haven't you seen the big tough guys to take Bruce on any of his movies? Lol

a reply to: AK907ICECOLD

One and done is great for movies, it doesn't work in real life.

Why are people talking like Bruce couldn't box? JKD and Wing Chun were offshoots of boxing. Bruce boxed before he started integrating styles. He could chain punch like a machine.

originally posted by: SlowNail
Why are people talking like Bruce couldn't box? JKD and Wing Chun were offshoots of boxing. Bruce boxed before he started integrating styles. He could chain punch like a machine.

If you think he was beating any top boxer at boxing I have a ping pong video I want you to watch.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i pretty much disagree with all of that.
remy is an amazing fighter.

and fedor fought crap competition?
please

ricardo arona, cro cop, coleman, fujita, nogeuira, henderson, lindland, rizzo, arlovski...

yeah, what a crappy list

fedor was out there turning peoples lights out and owning combat sambo competitions and made it all look easy.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
In an actual fight it would not be close, Ali would have broken bones in about 15 seconds. Anyone with a ground game will destroy an opponent who does not.

and how was bruce lee's ground game.
please enlighten me/us

thank you