Bruce Lee vs Muhammad Ali. Who would win. and other unanswerable questions.

a reply to: Mugly

Not sure if this was conveyed but I was trying to say Ali would win hands down and still be nice to the Bruce crowd.

I like your posts mugly on this topic. you too sound like you know what your talking about.

Here's what I love about Bryce lee. He basically got to the equivelent of yellow belt in wing chun. Basically only learning the first routine sil lum Tao and the very beginning basics of chi sau. Then he goes to america and starts up a school teaching basic hakka arts borrowed havily from beginners wing chun and says he's a master. Even develops his own style called jun fan kung fu. Thats called fraud and if a modern day guy tried something like that he would be ridiculed all over at the bullshido web site.

As for the Wong jack man fight. everybody who was there except for Diana Said Wong beat him handily. Bruce refused to let the match be recorded or broadcast. Afterwards when there was public heresy as to what really happened and who won, Wong Saud fine lets do it again but with cameras son the whole world can watch you loose again. Bruce Said see ah ha! he wants a rematch cause he lost! Instead of Wong had nothing to fear and was happy to beat Lee again for the public to view.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

gotta think though.

he probably did seem like the real deal master mofo in 1959 white bread seattle.

those college morons he was teaching back then had probably never even seen a chinese dude in the flesh.

bruce was like the shogun of seattle

a reply to: Mugly

Shooo-gun!..... of Seattle.

Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting Like a bee.

Bruce. Cluck like a chicken, sorta sting like a bee.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I think Gene LeBell beat Lee but that may just be him bragging when the guy can't rebutt it.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

i really do try not to hate on bruce but it is his fans more than anything that bug me.
he always seemed like a pretty humble guy for the most part.

just cause his fans bought into the whole he was the baddest on the planet bs dont mean he felt that way.

i admire bruce for a lot of things.
his fight philosophy. his encouragement in his students to seek out other styles and especially grappling.
nothing like that was happening in the states in the late 50's and 60's.

brazil had a big vale tudo scene down there at that time. i think gracie barra and gracie humaita was open down there and that whole family was tuning guys up from all over the place.
america had not really seen anything like martial arts on any sort of scale back then though.

if and of those dudes from brazil had been around seattle back then, bruce would have been sent on a different path.

people always talk about how he would do against ali for example.

what about bruce vs helio gracie.
better yet, bruce vs rolls gracie.

bruce would have seemed like an infant on the mat

en.wikipedia.org...

Rolls Gracie ([ˈɡɾejsi] 1951–1982) was a Brazilian martial artist. He was a prominent member of the Gracie family known for their founding of Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ) and considered by some the family's best ever fighter.[1] He was teacher of Rickson Gracie, Carlos Gracie Jr., Royler Gracie, Rigan Machado and Romero "Jacare" Cavalcanti

from all my research, probably the best grappler to date.
of course opinions vary. i would put him tops for bjj but i am a fan of others over him.

just another example though.

people have no idea how tough some of these dudes are/were.

lige friggin coffin nails man.
trained killers

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
a reply to: BASSPLYR

I think Gene LeBell beat Lee but that may just be him bragging when the guy can't rebutt it.

dude, gene lebell coulda have owned lee any time he wanted.

he trained with lou thesz and ed 'strangler' lewis.
those dudes were real deal shooters.

he trained in western boxing with sugar ray robinson. went to japan to train jitsu and judo.
a true student of the arts with true mat time.

not 2 years on a wooden man before you teach at a college.

please

a reply to: Mugly

I concur gene coulda man handled Bruce maybe even now if bruce were still alive. In north Hollywood near where gene lives Ius a well known martial art supply shop called valley martial arts supply. (Theyre excellent btw and they deliver online items fast. ) they have some chairs you can sit in while there. One of them has a sign stating the house rules Basically if gene comes in you are to offer him the chair and vacate it immediately. I doubt gene would give you crap if you didn't mive. But he's so well liked and respected there that if gene comes in its his house until he leaves. Plus I heard the guys really funny and a joy to be around.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

gene lebell is like the lemmy killmeister of martial arts.


everyone knows he is cool and he dont have to prove #.

I have a huge amount of respect for what the Gracies have brought to martial arts. Stepping into a BJJ class changed my entire outlook on what it is to be a martial artist but like Lee; separating the legend from the truth can be difficult and a large amount of it is deliberately perpetuated by them. To hear him tell it Royce went undefeated what 200 times? It's impossible to verify. I'm not doubting the skills of any of them but I'm very aware that they have a brand to protect.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

nah.
rickson was claiming 400 wins at one point.
of course that is a very padded record.

all those dudes had some brutal fights.

even with the padded record, rickson is nasty.

ask the dudes down in rio and curitiba who the man is and they will all say the same thing

a reply to: Mugly

Depends who you ask in Rio. The Luta Livre guys have their own heroic stories, just as embellished as the Gracies and also containing the same amount of truth. I gave up buying into any of it. They're all better than I'll ever be and have great things to teach.

a reply to: Mugly

****ALL CREDIT for this link goes to Mugly ****

I finally got your link to work and if it hasn't been shared before, I think this guy in the video deserves close inspection. Here's an example of what a real deal fighter looks like. I doubt bruce Lee would fare well against him.

fluid and skilled through many dynamics of fighting. Well rounded fighter.

m.youtube.com...

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
a reply to: Mugly

Depends who you ask in Rio. The Luta Livre guys have their own heroic stories, just as embellished as the Gracies and also containing the same amount of truth. I gave up buying into any of it. They're all better than I'll ever be and have great things to teach.

oh no doubt.
when i say those dudes down there are tough, im talking about all the jitsu and livre guys.
those guys were out there banging it out, no weight classes for years before bruce and ali both

a reply to: BASSPLYR

he's nasty.
ive been a fan of his for a long time.
he is the kind of fighter that will turn your lights out before you know what happened.

you ever watch some any of the ZST promotions?

mma with music. kinda flashy. even tag teams. they had some monsters including remy

another guy worth checking out from back in the day before mma got going up here.
he is from brazil. dont know how much footage is floating around but there should be some.

jose 'pele' landi jons.

true bare knuckle fighter.

could turn people out fast..

he was a cocky bastard though

Here's what I love about Bryce lee. He basically got to the equivelent of yellow belt in wing chun. Basically only learning the first routine sil lum Tao and the very beginning basics of chi sau. Then he goes to america and starts up a school teaching basic hakka arts borrowed havily from beginners wing chun and says he's a master. Even develops his own style called jun fan kung fu. Thats called fraud and if a modern day guy tried something like that he would be ridiculed all over at the bullshido web site.

a reply to: BASSPLYR
did you get all your info from the internet?
do you know anything about what you posted?

Bruce Lee hands down.

Faster
Jeet Kune Do
Wing Chun
Played ping pong with num chucks
Has fought Chuck Norris: Won
Beat Jackie Chan
Rougher neighborhood growing up

a reply to: Rikku

What ja mean? You call in me a key board warrior or something.

Bottom line is bruce Lee would have been out classed by ali

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Basically only learning the first routine sil lum Tao and the very beginning basics of chi sau.

well how about you explain the basics of 'chi sau' , or even a vague descriptio of what 'chi sau' is....

The question is loaded.

Any "master" (was he?) of "gong-fu" (Internal, External, Northern, Southern) should be able to beat a "master" of british boxing.

There, I said it .. on the street with no rules theres no competition. Bruce Lee would beat Mike Tyson in his prime on the street, too.

Just starting breaking fingers, bones, choking people, gouging out their eyes and # like that, which is how true Kung-Fu for self-defense is.

Leave the kicks out of it. Hell, this really boils down to chinese boxing versus british boxing. One is battle-tested, several hundred or even a thousand or more years old, and the other was invented in the past few hundred years as a spectacle, a sport, with rules and gloves and points.

The entire concept of a western fist fight that does not end up on the ground is a fantasy based on the influence of british boxing on our culture. Even the style of the punches you'd see on the street are relatively the same as in the ring. Maybe the simple level of fist fighting came first, but british boxing put a polish on it.

It still can't be compared in the slightest sense to the art of killing and maiming people with your bare hands.

Lee, because he was like ~ Wahhter~