British police calling for knife ban

"British police calling for knife ban"

Followed by Pointy Stick ban. Followed by Jagged Rock ban. Followed by voluminous whining that people wont stop finding ways to hurt each other...

Why? It's the law. You can't threaten people with one, but you can carry pretty much any knife you want as long as you have a good reason, a knife is a tool - the only bad reason to carry one is if you want to threaten or stab someone with it.

And stiil people do.

I've been in altercations with people carrying cleavers and butchers knives, who carries a butchers knife around the streets with them?

"Don't mind me- i'm just taking this knife to a midnight cooking class."

And what is the response? take the knife away-that works wonders when the idiot with the knife can simply go back home and grab another knife.

a reply to: Answer

Blogs. Yeah. OK. The third one had a chart saying how the UK was manipulating the data. Even though I had pointed out that exact graph earlier..... and it wasn't manipulated. Nice try. I didn't ignore them. I read and now discount.

If the figures were so bad here in the UK, don't you think the papers or more likely, the other political parties might bring it up against the Conservatives? Or are all the papers, news outlets and political parties hiding the truth? I have a feeling that they may use that kind of thing against the government if it were true...politics is like that...

Honestly, feel free to show me a link to official figures for this epidemic of knife and gun crime you think we have

Whst I find funny is that some people think we must be lying about how good our health service is, about how safe we generally feel n this country. Do you know why people ask you about gun and knife crime in the US? It's because America tells the rest of the world how great it is, but it has more problems than most 1st world nations, especially crime and health provision. We don't understand how you have let your country get so messed up and yet still say it's the best...you even think your government is out to get you!

a reply to: Answer

I didn't make any personal attacks on you. Instead I used the gift of language to make fun of you because you were doing to US (Brits) what you accuse us of doing to you. Surely you can see that this is worthy of mockery? You need to not only get a better grasp of proper English (as spoken by us Brits) and stop being so sensitive. A thick skin will make life so much easier after all.

And for my next trick, I'll be "personally attacking" some random English bloke...because I'm Scottish and the English smell...

Rev

originally posted by: bluesilver
If the figures were so bad here in the UK, don't you think the papers or more likely, the other political parties might bring it up against the Conservatives? Or are all the papers, news outlets and political parties hiding the truth? I have a feeling that they may use that kind of thing against the government if it were true...politics is like that...

Honestly, feel free to show me a link to official figures for this epidemic of knife and gun crime you think we have

Whst I find funny is that some people think we must be lying about how good our health service is, about how safe we generally feel n this country. Do you know why people ask you about gun and knife crime in the US? It's because America tells the rest of the world how great it is, but it has more problems than most 1st world nations, especially crime and health provision. We don't understand how you have let your country get so messed up and yet still say it's the best...you even think your government is out to get you!

This literally took 3 seconds to find.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Answer

Blogs. Yeah. OK. The third one had a chart saying how the UK was manipulating the data. Even though I had pointed out that exact graph earlier..... and it wasn't manipulated. Nice try. I didn't ignore them. I read and now discount.

You're a liar. You made this post exactly 6 minutes after mine. The YouTube video I posted is over 6 minutes long and every source of information I posted takes several minutes to actually read through.

The blog post lays out exactly how the numbers were arrived at.

You wonder why I didn't bother with sources in the first place... because I knew this is the response they would receive.

"Blah blah, this disagrees with my opinion... blah blah screw reading this." Predictable.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Answer

Blogs. Yeah. OK. The third one had a chart saying how the UK was manipulating the data. Even though I had pointed out that exact graph earlier..... and it wasn't manipulated. Nice try. I didn't ignore them. I read and now discount.

You're a liar. You made this post exactly 6 minutes after mine. The YouTube video I posted is over 6 minutes long and every source of information I posted takes several minutes to actually read through.

The blog post lays out exactly how the numbers were arrived at.

You wonder why I didn't bother with sources in the first place... because I knew this is the response they would receive.

"Blah blah, this disagrees with my opinion... blah blah screw reading this." Predictable.

I didn't listen to the video. I had already read the first source. If the video was the same as as the blogs it would have been a further waste of time.

I see that this thread has devolved into the same tired stuff that the other threads that even mention guns has. I understand that some people are afraid of guns, even though guns are only as dangerous as the people using them. This brings me to the point of the thread. Murder has been around for as long as humans. They have used sticks, stones, bare hands, swords, knives, really everything that can be used, to commit murders. Governments even commit millions of murders by proxy with the stroke of a pen. It doesn't matter really what tools are being used to do the crime. It is the person using them that is the real problem. I don't know why people are missing this. Instead they go on and on with the same tired old crap instead of focusing on the real problem: people. People are the problem. Banning (or offering buybacks for) weapons won't change a damn thing. They will go on killing with whatever they can get their hands on until something changes.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Answer

Blogs. Yeah. OK. The third one had a chart saying how the UK was manipulating the data. Even though I had pointed out that exact graph earlier..... and it wasn't manipulated. Nice try. I didn't ignore them. I read and now discount.

You can discount the blog all you want. The links prove it to be true. Can you show where the other 200+ victims of Shipman were added in once found to be his crimes?

If someone is shot or stabbed in the UK and nobody is arrested for that crime then that murder is not reported as such. In the US, regardless of the criminal being found or covicted, the murder is recorded.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Answer

Blogs. Yeah. OK. The third one had a chart saying how the UK was manipulating the data. Even though I had pointed out that exact graph earlier..... and it wasn't manipulated. Nice try. I didn't ignore them. I read and now discount.

You're a liar. You made this post exactly 6 minutes after mine. The YouTube video I posted is over 6 minutes long and every source of information I posted takes several minutes to actually read through.

The blog post lays out exactly how the numbers were arrived at.

You wonder why I didn't bother with sources in the first place... because I knew this is the response they would receive.

"Blah blah, this disagrees with my opinion... blah blah screw reading this." Predictable.

I didn't listen to the video. I had already read the first source. If the video was the same as as the blogs it would have been a further waste of time.

Then don't ask for sources if all you're going to do is ignore them. Again, your behavior is completely predictable which is why I don't bother with sources. People who want the truth will seek it out, people whose minds are made up will demand sources and ignore them anyway.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I would say for the very reason I just posted about. Shipman. He murdered, by some counts, over 400 people. He was only convicted of 15 therefore only 15 of those went on record as a homicide/murder.

To be honest this could be the case anywhere. You can cite Shipman "who may have...", but there are many "may have" types lurking everywere. If you roll with the reported facts, then that's what's best to feal in.

The fact is if you run with tried and therefore proven homicides the outcome is actual and this is the same in the UK and US crime recording if you check out the detail of the links I posted on page 4. Unsolved homicides in the UK are few and far between.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I would say for the very reason I just posted about. Shipman. He murdered, by some counts, over 400 people. He was only convicted of 15 therefore only 15 of those went on record as a homicide/murder.

To be honest this could be the case anywhere. You can cite Shipman "who may have...", but there are many "may have" types lurking everywere. If you roll with the reported facts, then that's what's best to feal in.

The fact is if you run with tried and therefore proven homicides the outcome is actual and this is the same in the UK and US crime recording if you check out the detail of the links I posted on page 4. Unsolved homicides in the UK are few and far between.

You should shift your focus from "unsolved homicides" to those deaths which are obvious homicide but not reported as such. THAT is the discrepancy that we're trying to point out.

a reply to: bluesilver

To be fair there is a reason why the US is Flooded with guns and that reason is the manufacturers.

The rise of illegal guns in the UK is linked to the fall of the wall-where the Kalashnikovs were produced. Many guns in the US are produced and procured in the US, but knives are truly universal.

So whats the difference? guns are more dangerous, however knives are still dangerous- we don't use an AR-34 to carve a roast. The problem is that we can take guns away from the psychos but we can't take away their knives.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I would say for the very reason I just posted about. Shipman. He murdered, by some counts, over 400 people. He was only convicted of 15 therefore only 15 of those went on record as a homicide/murder.

To be honest this could be the case anywhere. You can cite Shipman "who may have...", but there are many "may have" types lurking everywere. If you roll with the reported facts, then that's what's best to feal in.

The fact is if you run with tried and therefore proven homicides the outcome is actual and this is the same in the UK and US crime recording if you check out the detail of the links I posted on page 4. Unsolved homicides in the UK are few and far between.

The difference is a body found dead and deemed a homicide by an investigator is called a homicide in the us. In the uk a homicide is classified and not reported unless a person is caught. If we catch a serial killer...even before we do and we find the bodies its reported as a homicide. In the uk this is not the case.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Answer

Blogs. Yeah. OK. The third one had a chart saying how the UK was manipulating the data. Even though I had pointed out that exact graph earlier..... and it wasn't manipulated. Nice try. I didn't ignore them. I read and now discount.

You're a liar. You made this post exactly 6 minutes after mine. The YouTube video I posted is over 6 minutes long and every source of information I posted takes several minutes to actually read through.

The blog post lays out exactly how the numbers were arrived at.

You wonder why I didn't bother with sources in the first place... because I knew this is the response they would receive.

"Blah blah, this disagrees with my opinion... blah blah screw reading this." Predictable.

I didn't listen to the video. I had already read the first source. If the video was the same as as the blogs it would have been a further waste of time.

Then don't ask for sources if all you're going to do is ignore them. Again, your behavior is completely predictable which is why I don't bother with sources. People who want the truth will seek it out, people whose minds are made up will demand sources and ignore them anyway.

I read all of your sources and discounted them as crap. We offer facts. You offer conspiracy opinions and insults.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I would say for the very reason I just posted about. Shipman. He murdered, by some counts, over 400 people. He was only convicted of 15 therefore only 15 of those went on record as a homicide/murder.

To be honest this could be the case anywhere. You can cite Shipman "who may have...", but there are many "may have" types lurking everywere. If you roll with the reported facts, then that's what's best to feal in.

The fact is if you run with tried and therefore proven homicides the outcome is actual and this is the same in the UK and US crime recording if you check out the detail of the links I posted on page 4. Unsolved homicides in the UK are few and far between.

There were over 400 related to his case that were never solved and as such not added to the murder count. Since he is dead they never will be.

In the US, ALL murders are added regardless of solved or not.

I would say 400 by a single person, not added to the murder count, is a significant enough figure to assume a much larger number have not been added by the same means over the years in order to skew numbers.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

The problem is that we can take guns away from the psychos but we can't take away their knives.

Why can't you take away the knives from psychos?
Guns and knives are both physical objects that come in both large and small varieties.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Answer

Blogs. Yeah. OK. The third one had a chart saying how the UK was manipulating the data. Even though I had pointed out that exact graph earlier..... and it wasn't manipulated. Nice try. I didn't ignore them. I read and now discount.

You're a liar. You made this post exactly 6 minutes after mine. The YouTube video I posted is over 6 minutes long and every source of information I posted takes several minutes to actually read through.

The blog post lays out exactly how the numbers were arrived at.

You wonder why I didn't bother with sources in the first place... because I knew this is the response they would receive.

"Blah blah, this disagrees with my opinion... blah blah screw reading this." Predictable.

I didn't listen to the video. I had already read the first source. If the video was the same as as the blogs it would have been a further waste of time.

Then don't ask for sources if all you're going to do is ignore them. Again, your behavior is completely predictable which is why I don't bother with sources. People who want the truth will seek it out, people whose minds are made up will demand sources and ignore them anyway.

I read all of your sources and discounted them as crap. We offer facts. You offer conspiracy opinions and insults.

Oh only your ooint of view has facts. Like your wiki page? With citing/source problems. Wiki is only as good as the sources and people contributing. Try a criminology department in a university.

Type knife epedimic in the uk and watch the list of sources. Some saying its terrible some refuting. The least biased source will be from criminologists (experts) themselves. There are lots of books by professors on these subjects.

Most agree that the uk is one of the most violent places in europe. Like i said with mass immigrations to the eu the whole place is in danger (no not because of any ethnic backround because of the poverty slums that come with mass refugees). I was just in switzerland where i saw graffiti everywhere for the first time ever.

Anyway a knife ban is the dumbest thing i have heard of. Its like grasping at straws to deal with a big problem. The real problem is leadership. Everyone hides behind the next pole and is afraid to inspire people to be better. Social problems can not be fixed by bandaids.

I think bans on sensible people having sensible weapons in private, and responsibly concealed in public with propper training is a cop out. Its like a psychaitrist trying drugs on a mental patient. It works until they stop taking the medicine. Then the problem is worse than it was before the medicine.
Why?
Because you never knew what the real problem was to begin with.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: bastion

He/she won't get it, I've already explained that I often walk through town with extremely sharp wood chisels, pry-bar, claw hammer, and Paslode gas powered nail gun on my lunch break.
I would invite questions (rightly so) if I had any of that secreted on my person at the pub though.
He/she calls it oppression, I call it a sensible law which gives the cops the ability to take knifes of the street when someone cannot show good reason for having one.

Agreed, I'd maybe think 'that's odd' if it was someone with spotless tools, overalls and manicured baby soft hands - but in any other case it's filtered out as normal attire and wouldn't even bat an eyelid.

Even at the pub, if the police were contacted I imagine they'd first make sure you're not drunk, ask how many you intend to stay for and at worse temporarily take them off someone until morning or just leave it as 'fair play we all enjoy a pint after work, but please make sure you don't do it so obviously next time'.

Anyone who lives in the UK knows that this law is targeted mainly at the problem of 13 -17 year old chav/townie kids who only carry them to cause trouble so the more removed - the more safer everyone is as they can't walk into a shop and replace it at that age. It's just common sense policing that only grants police powers to disrupt the criminals in reality.

originally posted by: Answer
You should shift your focus from "unsolved homicides" to those deaths which are obvious homicide but not reported as such. THAT is the discrepancy that we're trying to point out.

Agreed, both US and UK stats are compiled in a completely different manner with us being more lenient on potential homicide and the assault/violent crime stats being massively over exaggerated - more info here

Two data sets compiled by different criteris can't accurately or simplistically be compared. It's a very messy process of guess work and subjective weighting of crime.
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Does the United Kingdom have a violent crime rate four times higher than the United States?

No. Although widely stated, that is not the case.

The UK has stricter definitions: things that in USA would not be counted as "violent crime" are counted in the UK statistics.
There are lots of those, hence the apparent (misleadingly so) crime rate.

The definitions for “violent crime” are very different in the US and Britain … the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a “violent crime” as one of only four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

The British Home Office, by contrast, has a substantially different definition of violent crime. The British definition includes all “crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all “sexual offenses,” as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and “forcible rapes.” [2]

Using the most recent data we can see that the UK has 1.2 homicides per 100,000 people which is less than Greece (1.5), Canada (1.6), the Czech republic and Belgium (1.7) and exactly four times less than the United States (4.8).

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