British police calling for knife ban

originally posted by: Skid Mark
Now, as most of you know, guns have been banned in the U.K. Because of that, violent crimes are being committed with knives. It goes to show that it's not the weapon that the criminal uses but the criminal. This ought to be food for thought for those who support a gun ban in the U.S. but I'm afraid that they'll totally miss the message.

Ah, the food for thought can be found in the statistics.

In denying ignorance and ignoring the difference in dates and the quagmire of comparing national statistics against each other, we have this bunch of factoids.

In 2012/13 the UK (specifically England and Wales) we had 27 homicides caused by firearms and 193 homicides caused by “sharp instruments”.

In the USA in 2012 there were 8,897 homicides caused by firearms and 1,604 caused by “Knives or cutting instruments”.

Now with a stated population of population of 53 million in England and Wales and 312 million in the US we have the following:

In England and Wales you have a 1 in 100,000 chance of being murdered. In the USA this is just over 4 in 100,000.

In England and Wales you have a 0.05 in 100,000 chance of being murdered by someone with a gun, while in the USA that’s approaching 3 in 100,000.

Wait for it… In England and Wales you have a 0.4 chance of being murdered something "sharp and pointy", but in the US it’s worse and you have a 0.5 in 100,000 of meeting your maker that way.

The long and the short of it is that in the US your gun crime is very high and knife crime is slightly higher than the UK. The myth that the UK is a slaughter house of knife wielding murders is just that, a myth.

Difference is that in the UK the authorities react to the public’s concern about crime and take measures to reduce gun and knife crime. Guns are not outlawed, just controlled. Knives are not outlawed either, but they are controlled. Result is a safer country with less violent crime and needless murders.

> UK Office of National Statistics ONS
> US FBI statistics
> Law on knives in the UK
> UK Firearm Licensing Laws

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Their numbers are deliberately misleading and several police officials have blown the whistle on the lies and manipulation used to under report the crime rates in the UK.

a reply to: Skid Mark

Well you can suffocate someone with a pillow so ummm no!

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Skid Mark
Now, as most of you know, guns have been banned in the U.K. Because of that, violent crimes are being committed with knives. It goes to show that it's not the weapon that the criminal uses but the criminal. This ought to be food for thought for those who support a gun ban in the U.S. but I'm afraid that they'll totally miss the message.

Ah, the food for thought can be found in the statistics.

In denying ignorance and ignoring the difference in dates and the quagmire of comparing national statistics against each other, we have this bunch of factoids.

In 2012/13 the UK (specifically England and Wales) we had 27 homicides caused by firearms and 193 homicides caused by “sharp instruments”.

In the USA in 2012 there were 8,897 homicides caused by firearms and 1,604 caused by “Knives or cutting instruments”.

Now with a stated population of population of 53 million in England and Wales and 312 million in the US we have the following:

In the England and Wales you have a 1 in 100,000 chance of being murdered. In the USA this is just over 4 in 100,000.

In the England and Wales you have a 0.05 in 100,000 chance of being murdered by someone with a gun, while in the USA that’s approaching 3 in 100,000.

Wait for it… In the England and Wales you have a 0.4 chance of being murdered something "sharp and pointy", but in the US it’s worse and you have a 0.5 in 100,000 of meeting your maker that way.

The long and the short of it is that in the US your gun crime is very high and knife crime is higher than the UK. The myth that the UK is a laughter house of knife wielding murders is just that, a myth.

Difference is that in the UK the authorities react to the public’s concern about crime and take measures to reduce gun and knife crime. Guns are not outlawed, just controlled. Knives are not outlawed either, but they are controlled. Result is a safer country with less violent crime and needless murders.

> UK Office of National Statistics ONS
> US FBI statistics
> Law on knives in the UK
> UK Firearm Licensing Laws

Stop buying into the official stats. When the real numbers are taken into account, the murder rate in the UK is closer to 2.5 times that of the US.

The UK government manipulates the numbers to placate their citizenry.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

My concern about people missing the point has been confirmed. No pun intended. Some of these comments have me shaking my head.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

But you have had highly regulated fire arms since the 20's.

Then in 1988 you banned most guns and the final one was in 1997

The united states homicide rate has also fallen substancially But we didnt ban guns.

Last i checked the uk was the most violent country in europe and has some of the highest fire arm controls. Kind of odd.

I am sure france is right there with you now. But i think you still edge them out.

By the way homicides in the uk were already falling when you banned guns in 88 and 97.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Skid Mark
Now, as most of you know, guns have been banned in the U.K. Because of that, violent crimes are being committed with knives. It goes to show that it's not the weapon that the criminal uses but the criminal. This ought to be food for thought for those who support a gun ban in the U.S. but I'm afraid that they'll totally miss the message.

Ah, the food for thought can be found in the statistics.

In denying ignorance and ignoring the difference in dates and the quagmire of comparing national statistics against each other, we have this bunch of factoids.

In 2012/13 the UK (specifically England and Wales) we had 27 homicides caused by firearms and 193 homicides caused by “sharp instruments”.

In the USA in 2012 there were 8,897 homicides caused by firearms and 1,604 caused by “Knives or cutting instruments”.

Now with a stated population of population of 53 million in England and Wales and 312 million in the US we have the following:

In the England and Wales you have a 1 in 100,000 chance of being murdered. In the USA this is just over 4 in 100,000.

In the England and Wales you have a 0.05 in 100,000 chance of being murdered by someone with a gun, while in the USA that’s approaching 3 in 100,000.

Wait for it… In the England and Wales you have a 0.4 chance of being murdered something "sharp and pointy", but in the US it’s worse and you have a 0.5 in 100,000 of meeting your maker that way.

The long and the short of it is that in the US your gun crime is very high and knife crime is higher than the UK. The myth that the UK is a laughter house of knife wielding murders is just that, a myth.

Difference is that in the UK the authorities react to the public’s concern about crime and take measures to reduce gun and knife crime. Guns are not outlawed, just controlled. Knives are not outlawed either, but they are controlled. Result is a safer country with less violent crime and needless murders.

> UK Office of National Statistics ONS
> US FBI statistics
> Law on knives in the UK
> UK Firearm Licensing Laws

Stop buying into the official stats. When the real numbers are taken into account, the murder rate in the UK is closer to 2.5 times that of the US.

The UK government manipulates the numbers to placate their citizenry.

OK. Everyone else has supported their position with facts. Where are yours to back up what you are saying?

I'll go out on a limb here and say I support the ban on carrying knives with no good reason to justify it such as fishing/craft/work/whatever. It means in a stop and search that knife can be taken off chav lads who are only carrying it for weapon purposes.

That said, if you have good reason to be carrying a potential weapon then you still can easily in the UK.
I often walk through town on a lunch break with allsorts on my toolbelt. I walked in my local bank just last week with 3 sharp chisels, a pry bar, claw hammer and a gas powered Paslode nailgun (it's a £500 tool I don't take my eyes off much), yet nobody batted an eyelid.

I wouldn't take any of that on a night out though, and I'd distrust anyone who did.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a new lump hammer and crow-bar and left the store with one in each hand.
While I was approaching a local beat cop who I recognised (his daughter was in the same class as my son at school) he looked me up and down then chuckled 'if you were younger and wearing a hoody I'd be asking you questions', to which I replied 'Nah I'm just distracting you from the bank job going on right now down the road', then winked with a smile.

I'm glad that police can take knives off people who don't seem to have any reason other than 'weapon' to be carrying one. I am also glad that I am free to carry any manner of dangerous tool if I have genuine reason to do so.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

The list of things that can kill another being is so long that is why banning humans is the simplest form of eliminating killing, at least as far as us humans are concerned. If someone wants to kill another being they will find a way, it really comes down to what is in their soul, hatred or love, not what type of weapon they are choosing to facilitate said killing with.

Personally, if given my choice of a way to die, I would prefer a nuclear bomb that just annihilates me instantly.

a reply to: luthier

I'm Canadian dude.

originally posted by: grainofsand

I'm glad that police can take knives off people who don't seem to have any reason other than 'weapon' to be carrying one. I am also glad that I am free to carry any manner of dangerous tool if I have genuine reason to do so.

So you support profiling and discrimination, then?

"Fine for some but not for others" type of law enforcement?

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

No you are reaching. So if the person isnt caught or enough evidence against them the dead person with stab wounds wasnt murdered?

originally posted by: Answer
Stop buying into the official stats. When the real numbers are taken into account, the murder rate in the UK is closer to 2.5 times that of the US.
The UK government manipulates the numbers to placate their citizenry.

Oh, give it a rest. You are in denial. What stats are you using to challenge the official statistics? If you say the UK is under-reported then why not the US?

Shall we make it up together? Let's say 700 people were shot in the UK last year, that sounds about right to you? I mean, the gang warfare in my sleepy village is out of control and when they run out of ammo, out come the swords a la "Kill Bill".

The fact is that the UK rates are defined as...

The Home Office Homicide Index shows that there were 551 homicides (murder, manslaughter and infanticide) currently recorded in 2012/13 in England and Wales

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: luthier

I'm Canadian dude.

Where you have more guns per capita then the us.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Answer
Stop buying into the official stats. When the real numbers are taken into account, the murder rate in the UK is closer to 2.5 times that of the US.
The UK government manipulates the numbers to placate their citizenry.

Oh, give it a rest. You are in denial. What stats are you using to challenge the official statistics? If you say the UK is under-reported then why not the US?

Shall we make it up together? Let's say 700 people were shot in the UK last year, that sounds about right to you? I mean, the gang warfare in my sleepy village is out of control and when they run out of ammo, out come the swords a la "Kill Bill".

The fact is that the UK rates are defined as...

The Home Office Homicide Index shows that there were 551 homicides (murder, manslaughter and infanticide) currently recorded in 2012/13 in England and Wales

Because in the us the detective decides if its a homicide.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Skid Mark
Now, as most of you know, guns have been banned in the U.K. Because of that, violent crimes are being committed with knives. It goes to show that it's not the weapon that the criminal uses but the criminal. This ought to be food for thought for those who support a gun ban in the U.S. but I'm afraid that they'll totally miss the message.

Ah, the food for thought can be found in the statistics.

In denying ignorance and ignoring the difference in dates and the quagmire of comparing national statistics against each other, we have this bunch of factoids.

In 2012/13 the UK (specifically England and Wales) we had 27 homicides caused by firearms and 193 homicides caused by “sharp instruments”.

In the USA in 2012 there were 8,897 homicides caused by firearms and 1,604 caused by “Knives or cutting instruments”.

Now with a stated population of population of 53 million in England and Wales and 312 million in the US we have the following:

In the England and Wales you have a 1 in 100,000 chance of being murdered. In the USA this is just over 4 in 100,000.

In the England and Wales you have a 0.05 in 100,000 chance of being murdered by someone with a gun, while in the USA that’s approaching 3 in 100,000.

Wait for it… In the England and Wales you have a 0.4 chance of being murdered something "sharp and pointy", but in the US it’s worse and you have a 0.5 in 100,000 of meeting your maker that way.

The long and the short of it is that in the US your gun crime is very high and knife crime is higher than the UK. The myth that the UK is a laughter house of knife wielding murders is just that, a myth.

Difference is that in the UK the authorities react to the public’s concern about crime and take measures to reduce gun and knife crime. Guns are not outlawed, just controlled. Knives are not outlawed either, but they are controlled. Result is a safer country with less violent crime and needless murders.

> UK Office of National Statistics ONS
> US FBI statistics
> Law on knives in the UK
> UK Firearm Licensing Laws

Stop buying into the official stats. When the real numbers are taken into account, the murder rate in the UK is closer to 2.5 times that of the US.

The UK government manipulates the numbers to placate their citizenry.

OK. Everyone else has supported their position with facts. Where are yours to back up what you are saying?

Google it. I'm tired of doing everyone's work for them. There have been way too many of these anti-gun threads lately and they're all going through the same evolutions.

When I have questions, I don't demand someone's sources. I look for myself because I often find additional information that either supports or goes against their posted sources. If I post a single source, what will that tell you? That I was able to fine a single site with the info. Do your own research and it's amazing what you can stumble upon in the process.

If you're not willing to search for yourself to know if what you're posting is true or not, then I genuinely don't care if you believe me or not.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: grainofsand

I'm glad that police can take knives off people who don't seem to have any reason other than 'weapon' to be carrying one. I am also glad that I am free to carry any manner of dangerous tool if I have genuine reason to do so.

So you support profiling and discrimination, then?

"Fine for some but not for others" type of law enforcement?

Nope, I support laws where the onus is on the weapon carrier to show good reason for carrying one.
Why do you try to twist my words in such a childlike way?
Try again fella.