British police calling for knife ban

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Which is why I found this article so interesting.
rboatright.blogspot.com...

Just passing along friendly information!

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Which is why I found this article so interesting.
rboatright.blogspot.com...

Just passing along friendly information!

Ha...I just posted that same one. He has some great reading and links. But hey....you can only lead a horse to water.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you read the headline of your wikipage?

Yup. List of unsolved murders in the UK. The other esteemed member said that those stats would affect the number of murders. I show that there was only 47 such incidents in the last 18 years.

If you were honest you would first off say the headline is an incomplete list of unsolved murders.
You would also mention the way homicides were classified was changed about a decade ago.

If you read further you would be intelligent enough to see that the homicides not included were those in North Ireland due to struggles with the IRA.

Nice try but thats not what it says.

This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

Do you guys just ignore what isn't convenient to accept?

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
This guy explains what Answer is talking about pretty well. It is a long read, but is dead on about the crime and conviction. It cites a very specific case where there was one guy, Dr Harold Shipman, that was reportedly responsible for 215+ deaths on his own. They were not attributed to him until he went on trial and was convicted, and even then, only 15 were added because of his deal with the court and plea. When the criminal is convicted is when the count is added, and it is ONLY added if they are convicted for each one....essentially the other 200+ murders by him were not added to the count for the year he was convicted and since he committed suicide he could not have the others accounted for and they were not added to the murder rate.

Here is the article.

Source

It contains plenty of links so please check them all out....

They wont read it and if hey do wont believe it. A homicide is actually classified until a trial in england. My sister in law is an international human rights lawyer who teaches in Ireland. She has talked extensively about this very thing. Its padding numbers because of how bad crime is compaired to most of their neighbors. Most scholars in criminal justice think englands homicide rate is up to 5 times worse than reported.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I suppose if I was to have the job of reporting those numbers, I would try to find a way to make things look as favorable as I could, so it's hard to be angry. It's a crafty way of skewing the numbers.

But in reality, the criminal who wants to kill someone will do so with whatever he can find. Which I believe is the underlying message in this thread that was missed by so damn many miles.

Woooooosh!

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you read the headline of your wikipage?

Yup. List of unsolved murders in the UK. The other esteemed member said that those stats would affect the number of murders. I show that there was only 47 such incidents in the last 18 years.

If you were honest you would first off say the headline is an incomplete list of unsolved murders.
You would also mention the way homicides were classified was changed about a decade ago.

If you read further you would be intelligent enough to see that the homicides not included were those in North Ireland due to struggles with the IRA.

Nice try but thats not what it says.

This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

Do you guys just ignore what isn't convenient to accept?

This is an incomplete list of unsolved known murders in the UK. Victims believed to have been murdered by the same perpetrator(s) are grouped together. This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.[citation needed]

The page has the "this entry has issues" phrase. It also does not say as you can see with the whole excerpt that those northern ireland murders were the only one not present.

a reply to: Skid Mark

I have a neighbor-a paranoid schizophrenic-who carries a knife.

I made a thread about this person and how it is protected by the mental health services but if I carried a knife then I'd have the book thrown at me.

The laws are so convoluted that no one knows whats doing.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you read the headline of your wikipage?

Yup. List of unsolved murders in the UK. The other esteemed member said that those stats would affect the number of murders. I show that there was only 47 such incidents in the last 18 years.

If you were honest you would first off say the headline is an incomplete list of unsolved murders.
You would also mention the way homicides were classified was changed about a decade ago.

If you read further you would be intelligent enough to see that the homicides not included were those in North Ireland due to struggles with the IRA.

Nice try but thats not what it says.

This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

Do you guys just ignore what isn't convenient to accept?

This is an incomplete list of unsolved known murders in the UK. Victims believed to have been murdered by the same perpetrator(s) are grouped together. This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.[citation needed]

The page has the "this entry has issues" phrase. It also does not say as you can see with the whole excerpt that those northern ireland murders were the only one not present.

Now in the uk unsolved homicides are classified. If you read more than wiki about the subject you may know this.

a reply to: Answer

So your saying that someone thinks US gun laws are mental and this has made you both cry like a little girl and bitch like my ex-wife? Then you do exactly what you say you hate, and by that I mean you start talking about issues in a country that is not only none of your business (as your gun laws are none of ours apparently) but you also do it in the most lazy way possible, refusing a reasonable request to post your sources and telling the poster to "google it" Now that sounds like something (or should I say someone) who was "Made in America"

Your posts reek of the pot calling the kettle black to me.

And for the record, I lived and worked in the US (you could find me in a chapel in Vegas to be more precise) and my opinions are formed from living amongst your people and seeing some of your lovely country and I still think your gun laws are mental beyond belief.

But lets face it opinions are like a$$holes, we all have em...shame some people prove this by constantly talking poo...

Rev

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I suppose if I was to have the job of reporting those numbers, I would try to find a way to make things look as favorable as I could, so it's hard to be angry. It's a crafty way of skewing the numbers.

But in reality, the criminal who wants to kill someone will do so with whatever he can find. Which I believe is the underlying message in this thread that was missed by so damn many miles.

Woooooosh!

The fact that out of the 215+, up to over 400 victims, from Shipman alone were only counted as 15 shows just how little of the murders they DO report. His figure alone would almost DOUBLE the number of murders in their reports....but hey...there COULDN'T POSSIBLY be more like him could there? Nah....it was a fluke...../sarcasm

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you read the headline of your wikipage?

Yup. List of unsolved murders in the UK. The other esteemed member said that those stats would affect the number of murders. I show that there was only 47 such incidents in the last 18 years.

If you were honest you would first off say the headline is an incomplete list of unsolved murders.
You would also mention the way homicides were classified was changed about a decade ago.

If you read further you would be intelligent enough to see that the homicides not included were those in North Ireland due to struggles with the IRA.

Nice try but thats not what it says.

This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

Do you guys just ignore what isn't convenient to accept?

This is an incomplete list of unsolved known murders in the UK. Victims believed to have been murdered by the same perpetrator(s) are grouped together. This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.[citation needed]

The page has the "this entry has issues" phrase. It also does not say as you can see with the whole excerpt that those northern ireland murders were the only one not present.

*sighs*

Yes, the Issue is that they need a "citation". See the "citation needed" box in your quote? You guys are a hoot. Throw it against the wall and see what sticks.

originally posted by: Answer
I'm not the one who buys everything my government feeds me hook, line, and sinker.

Ah, but the Office of National Statistics (UK) is independent of government.

Why is it so difficult fo you to accept that the murder rate in the UK is less than thee US? What do you think the murder rate should be?

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you read the headline of your wikipage?

Yup. List of unsolved murders in the UK. The other esteemed member said that those stats would affect the number of murders. I show that there was only 47 such incidents in the last 18 years.

If you were honest you would first off say the headline is an incomplete list of unsolved murders.
You would also mention the way homicides were classified was changed about a decade ago.

If you read further you would be intelligent enough to see that the homicides not included were those in North Ireland due to struggles with the IRA.

Nice try but thats not what it says.

This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

Do you guys just ignore what isn't convenient to accept?

This is an incomplete list of unsolved known murders in the UK. Victims believed to have been murdered by the same perpetrator(s) are grouped together. This does not include the 1,500 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.[citation needed]

The page has the "this entry has issues" phrase. It also does not say as you can see with the whole excerpt that those northern ireland murders were the only one not present.

*sighs*

Yes, the Issue is that they need a "citation". See the "citation needed" box in your quote? You guys are a hoot. Throw it against the wall and see what sticks.

And what does that mean? Do you know homicides are classified in the uk until they go to trial? How would you get an unsolved murder stat that way? Those are trials without convictions.

originally posted by: Answer
Stop using silly terminology to distract from the point. Carrying a knife with a blade over 3" is illegal in your country unless you're fishing or hunting.

You want to throw out "waving it in people's faces" but simply carrying one is illegal. The fact that you can't call that ridiculous shows how deeply you've fallen for the propaganda and lost your sense of personal responsibility.

Why? It's the law. You can't threaten people with one, but you can carry pretty much any knife you want as long as you have a good reason, a knife is a tool - the only bad reason to carry one is if you want to threaten or stab someone with it.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Answer
I'm not the one who buys everything my government feeds me hook, line, and sinker.

Ah, but the Office of National Statistics (UK) is independent of government.

Why is it so difficult fo you to accept that the murder rate in the UK is less than thee US? What do you think the murder rate should be?

I would say for the very reason I just posted about. Shipman. He murdered, by some counts, over 400 people. He was only convicted of 15 therefore only 15 of those went on record as a homicide/murder. His number alone would have almost doubled your homicide rate. Unless each victim is specifically included in a murderers conviction they are not added in. In many cases they are rolled into a single conviction for multiple murders therefore allowing the numbers to be skewed in favor of less.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you read the headline of your wikipage?

Yup. List of unsolved murders in the UK. The other esteemed member said that those stats would affect the number of murders. I show that there was only 47 such incidents in the last 18 years.

Source

Another Source

More good info that will be ignored...



Even taking into account that there are more crimes considered "violent crimes" in the UK, the numbers are still staggering given the population density.

If someone breaks into my flat a knife would be the first thing I would grab to defend myself, a frying pan just wont cut it. They will be banning them next.

Ban all pointy knives what a load of boolacks, anyone ever seen a knife that's not pointy.

Ok now im on a roll, oh a rolling pin that's a good one, banning them soon as well.

Ok if their going to start banning everything that kills lets ban the police and government.

Lets start with those 2.

a reply to: bastion

He/she won't get it, I've already explained that I often walk through town with extremely sharp wood chisels, pry-bar, claw hammer, and Paslode gas powered nail gun on my lunch break.
I would invite questions (rightly so) if I had any of that secreted on my person at the pub though.
He/she calls it oppression, I call it a sensible law which gives the cops the ability to take knifes of the street when someone cannot show good reason for having one.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Answer
I'm not the one who buys everything my government feeds me hook, line, and sinker.

Ah, but the Office of National Statistics (UK) is independent of government.

Why is it so difficult fo you to accept that the murder rate in the UK is less than thee US? What do you think the murder rate should be?

That is very possible but in academia most people have critized the uk for their methods.

The us has very poor cities without a homogenous society. The uk certainly has diversity but there is not the sam historical common cultural thread connecting americans. Its a country of immigrants.

Urban anthropology has a lot of insightful explanations for why places have high murder rates. Most politicians are so bent on showing how much their plan worked they will skew numbers. In the us as welll. Even seperate entities can be bought and sold. Sometimes more so.

originally posted by: revmoofoo
a reply to: Answer

So your saying that someone thinks US gun laws are mental and this has made you both cry like a little girl and bitch like my ex-wife? Then you do exactly what you say you hate, and by that I mean you start talking about issues in a country that is not only none of your business (as your gun laws are none of ours apparently) but you also do it in the most lazy way possible, refusing a reasonable request to post your sources and telling the poster to "google it" Now that sounds like something (or should I say someone) who was "Made in America"

I've done this dance with multiple people in multiple threads lately and I'm growing tired of dealing with the same nonsense.

I am not talking about issues in another country that are none of my business... I'm pointing out the fallacies being used by the UK members to justify their opinions of US gun laws. If you'd stay the hell out of it, I wouldn't have to go there.

I engage in these conversations without personal attacks but apparently you're incapable of the same level of maturity.