Caitlyn is a woman; Rachel is black; what do you want to be?

I am God.

The bad one.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I can only imagine the twisted concepts countless people left with as a result.

a reply to: bananashooter

Such a noble lineage you have chosen.

a reply to: grandmakdw

You have a valid hypothesis about the motives, but there may be a bio-chemical influence on the attitude of his psyche.

He may have been exposed to a particular set of endochrine-disrupting contaminants that imballanced his body's hormone production.

It IS something in the water... And it hurts everyone

a reply to: grandmakdw

How can you give all this "Scientific Knowledge" and than say she ""Decided"" to be a Female because she was Jealous of the attention his other family members got? how is that logical?

originally posted by: Darth_PrimeT
a reply to: grandmakdw

How can you give all this "Scientific Knowledge" and than say she ""Decided"" to be a Female because she was Jealous of the attention his other family members got? how is that logical?

There is zero science right now that explains the desire of one sex to "be" the opposite sex. One can only hypothesize right now.

Perhaps as the poster above said it is chemicals ingested, or too much soy, or the hormones injected in chicken to make them grow quickly. There is currently no science to explain it.

See epigenetics on google.

There are often environmental triggers that set off decisions like this.

The environmental trigger I hypothesize was all the attention and money he saw the females around him getting that he subconsciously also desired.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Well, there isn't ZERO science - we are in the beginning stages of discovering more about the biological nature of gender identity.

www.sciencedaily.com...

www.newscientist.com...

There has been a long history of transgenderism in different cultures, so it is unlikely that modern day chemicals are the cause.

And just to clarify, Jenner's previous wife Linda Thompson confirmed that "Bruce" was considering sexual reassignment when they were married - way before the Kardashians. I believe she said he had started hormone treatments at that time, but stopped the process.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
There is zero science right now that explains the desire of one sex to "be" the opposite sex. One can only hypothesize right now.

At least you admit your only guessing. And with your clear bias against transgendered people, and your lack of knowledge of Bruce or Caitlyn Jenner, your guesses mean about as much as anyone else's negative speculations.

It's not true that Jenner is deluded or "pretending" anything or has normal chromosomes, You're just guessing. It's not true that he played tennis, or is seeking money or fame with this life decision, out of jealousy of his family, all of which you have asserted. None if it's true. It's just thoughts in your brain that you're trying to pass off as meaningful, by stating that you "know what you're talking about".

a reply to: grandmakdw

There is zero science right now that explains the desire of one sex to "be" the opposite sex. One can only hypothesize right now.

You sound like you're trying to decide law. How come? Looking for evidence? :-)

The environmental trigger I hypothesize was all the attention and money he saw the females around him getting that he subconsciously also desired.

Well - that ain't it. That is ludicrous at best. It also says more about your world view than anything else

From an earlier post of yours (where you got all science-y on our asses):

Bruce Jenner was a typical looking and good looking male,

I always thought he was almost pretty

he does not have any of the outward characteristics of the
"abnormal" chromosomes which might characterize a XXY
( male with extra female chromosome: weak muscles, speech impediment,
enlarged breasts, very tall)
Jenner definitely did not have weak muscles
nor is he extremely tall
nor did he during the height of playing tennis
when he was in top form have enlarged breasts.
The odds are extremely high that he is XY genetically.
I'd almost bet my life savings on it.

I don't know when you were teaching (or where), but I think there's much more to this than we can say we know for sure right now. Or do you think the science is all in - and you know it?

In any case (and I'm not proud of this) as long as we're going to examine people for clues as if they were animals in a zoo - have you ever noticed Caitlyn's brow bone?

Hormones affect all sorts of things - from finger length to voice. Men and women all display variations here and there. Like I was saying - not sure we know enough to say what's for sure and whats up for guessing yet. One of my sisters is often mistaken for a man on the phone. She's as feminine as it gets

As I said, not that I care if a male "decides" he is female.

So you keep saying. Why don't you admit - you don't think it's right to claim you are something that your (God given) DNA says you are not?

I object to the $$$ and fame seeking that appear to be part of the root reason, aside from his/her feelings.

Well, these days I guess that will bring you a far less retaliatory argument. Stay safe

Apart from his or her feelings? Her feelings are the ONLY thing that matters in all this. Not the science. She was rich before any of this showed up on our radar - and famous as well. Much of that fame was well deserved

You bring up jealousy a lot. Are you jealous of Caitlyn?

As far as the other young woman you want lump into all this judging - she's easy prey right now. Good going. Her story is still developing... Stay tuned Grams :-)

Some ask me how I subject myself to being involved in these threads about trans issues with all the ignorance and bullying out here. At first (and I demonstrated in some of my replies) it did bother me, it ANGERED me in fact. That is why I had to take a step back and remember to not let what others do or say control my emotions or thoughts therefore ME, only I'm allowed to do that. YOU do not get to dictate how I feel especially via the interwebs.

As long as you are not in or around my physical space as a direct threat to my well being or those I care about then I personally do not care how you feel or think about me. Guess what... your ALLOWED to feel that way at least for the time being anyhow.

I will also promise to renounce my evil ways and try to "straighten" up to the best of my ability if someone can get god and jesus both at the same time discussing how being LGBT is wrong and sinful on audio or video, preferably video with audio though.

Until then we should all try to understand that even the best neuro surgeons and psychiatric experts do not know all there is to know about the brain and how it works. We have no idea what dreams really are or even why we "need" sleep for that matter. We haven't proven or disproven of the existence of a soul which begs the question which is more important the heart or the brain? The brain can be essentially dead and unresponsive while the heart keeps the body alive which seems absolutely dreadful btw to both the individual and the ones that care for them. If the heart goes though so does the brain shortly after.

So where does that spark of life that we all feel and cherish really come from and did it bring other memories with it? We don't know...or least WE the general public do not know.

In short if you don't like me then fine that is your prerogative and RIGHT, just don't be a RICHARD about it and we can all grudgingly get along and cohabitate harmoniously on this rock. I'm feeling the peace and love today folks, Namaste.

Tolerant, that's what I want to be. What difference does it make to anyone if Caitlyn/Bruce is now a woman? Dolezal is a completely separate thing. Caitlyn identifies as a woman, dolezal is delusional. I'm sure I read she is now denying her white parents are actually her parents. She obviously has issues.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: grandmakdw
There is zero science right now that explains the desire of one sex to "be" the opposite sex. One can only hypothesize right now.

At least you admit your only guessing. And with your clear bias against transgendered people, and your lack of knowledge of Bruce or Caitlyn Jenner, your guesses mean about as much as anyone else's negative speculations.

It's not true that Jenner is deluded or "pretending" anything or has normal chromosomes, You're just guessing. It's not true that he played tennis, or is seeking money or fame with this life decision, out of jealousy of his family, all of which you have asserted. None if it's true. It's just thoughts in your brain that you're trying to pass off as meaningful, by stating that you "know what you're talking about".

Don't you mean that none of it is FACT? It could be true.

a reply to: grandmakdw
An omnipresent superman.

Oh, good! Word games!

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Don't you mean that none of it is FACT? It could be true.

If it were true, then it would be a fact.

Yes, it COULD be a fact. It COULD be true. But we can't say it's true unless we find out that it's true. But yes, none of it is a fact, so we can't say that it's true, only that it could be, in which case, it would be a fact.

Is there a cookie involved?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: grandmakdw
There is zero science right now that explains the desire of one sex to "be" the opposite sex. One can only hypothesize right now.

At least you admit your only guessing. And with your clear bias against transgendered people, and your lack of knowledge of Bruce or Caitlyn Jenner, your guesses mean about as much as anyone else's negative speculations.

It's not true that Jenner is deluded or "pretending" anything or has normal chromosomes, You're just guessing. It's not true that he played tennis, or is seeking money or fame with this life decision, out of jealousy of his family, all of which you have asserted. None if it's true. It's just thoughts in your brain that you're trying to pass off as meaningful, by stating that you "know what you're talking about".

I have no bias against transgendered

I have said repeatedly that anyone can decide to be whatever they think they are; be it a cat or another race, whatever. I object to the fame whoring that is going on with it all.



I know the science of chromosomes quite well thank you. Prove me wrong, I dare you, because you can't.
Everything I said about chromosomes was accurate.

And yes, it takes an environmental trigger of some kind for someone to decide against their biology to "be" something else.
Did you read about epigenetics? That explains a great deal.

Until you do a little research, don't throw stones, they'll break your glass.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: grandmakdw

There is zero science right now that explains the desire of one sex to "be" the opposite sex. One can only hypothesize right now.

You sound like you're trying to decide law. How come? Looking for evidence? :-)

The environmental trigger I hypothesize was all the attention and money he saw the females around him getting that he subconsciously also desired.

Well - that ain't it. That is ludicrous at best. It also says more about your world view than anything else

From an earlier post of yours (where you got all science-y on our asses):

Bruce Jenner was a typical looking and good looking male,

I always thought he was almost pretty

he does not have any of the outward characteristics of the
"abnormal" chromosomes which might characterize a XXY
( male with extra female chromosome: weak muscles, speech impediment,
enlarged breasts, very tall)
Jenner definitely did not have weak muscles
nor is he extremely tall
nor did he during the height of playing tennis
when he was in top form have enlarged breasts.
The odds are extremely high that he is XY genetically.
I'd almost bet my life savings on it.

I don't know when you were teaching (or where), but I think there's much more to this than we can say we know for sure right now. Or do you think the science is all in - and you know it?

In any case (and I'm not proud of this) as long as we're going to examine people for clues as if they were animals in a zoo - have you ever noticed Caitlyn's brow bone?

Hormones affect all sorts of things - from finger length to voice. Men and women all display variations here and there. Like I was saying - not sure we know enough to say what's for sure and whats up for guessing yet. One of my sisters is often mistaken for a man on the phone. She's as feminine as it gets

As I said, not that I care if a male "decides" he is female.

So you keep saying. Why don't you admit - you don't think it's right to claim you are something that your (God given) DNA says you are not?

I object to the $$$ and fame seeking that appear to be part of the root reason, aside from his/her feelings.

Well, these days I guess that will bring you a far less retaliatory argument. Stay safe

Apart from his or her feelings? Her feelings are the ONLY thing that matters in all this. Not the science. She was rich before any of this showed up on our radar - and famous as well. Much of that fame was well deserved

You bring up jealousy a lot. Are you jealous of Caitlyn?

As far as the other young woman you want lump into all this judging - she's easy prey right now. Good going. Her story is still developing... Stay tuned Grams :-)

Please read my above post.

I'm not judging.

Read up on the science before you in your abject ignorance of it decide that I am wrong.

Once again I don't care at all if someone decides they are a wild animal because that is what they feel, since you think what one feels is the highest and most important reality. There are people in this world who feel they are a certain animal and have had tattoos, surgery, etc to look like the animal. Does that make them that animal, because they feel they are that animal? According to you it definitely does because it is how they feel that makes reality. It is called species dysphoria, but according to your brilliant scientific mind, they are not dysphoric (wrong) but actually are the animal they think they are and should be allowed to live as that animal if they choose.

I am however judging Jenner because I think he actually went ahead and "transformed" (but note: kept his penis) due to envy of the attention and money his wife and daughters were getting. Subconciously, but he is turning his body into a money maker and making a mockery of the true transgender who want to get on quietly with their lives.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
I object to the fame whoring that is going on with it all.

You THINK Jenner is a "fame whore". That's just speculation.

Everything I said about chromosomes was accurate.

I'm not doubting that. It's the accuracy of what you said about Jenner that I question.

And yes, it takes an environmental trigger of some kind for someone to decide against their biology to "be" something else.

You may THINK that's true, but empirical evidence disagrees with you.

Sex Change: It's not Epigenetics or DES

Don't be a fool and fall for all that false and misleading information like epigenetics and DES as causing Gender Dysphoria.

The fact is they did not test epigenetics in any subject in this paper. In fact, this paper was a response to work that was done by Dr. William J Turner.

In conclusion, there is no objective proof of a link to epigenetics or DES as the cause for the onset of transgenderism.

Transgenders are just normal males and not a smidgen of abnormality exists in the genetic make-up of transgenders. The males are normal.

We now know gender issues are psycho-social or psychological, and perhaps psychiatric issues exist in transgenders which manifest in gender identity issues.

originally posted by: Megatronus
Tolerant, that's what I want to be. What difference does it make to anyone if Caitlyn/Bruce is now a woman? Dolezal is a completely separate thing. Caitlyn identifies as a woman, dolezal is delusional. I'm sure I read she is now denying her white parents are actually her parents. She obviously has issues.

Why is Dozel delusional and Caitlyn is not?

Both are denying their biology, both really think they are something they are clearly biologically not. What makes Dozel worse than Caitlyn? I see them as equal in their dysphoria. If someone want to deny their race or their gender, that is equal, both are the same, both are denying what they were born as. A poster above said that what one feels they are is the reality and everyone else is mean for denying the person's reality. Dozel's reality is as real to her as Caitlyn's reality is to him.

To not judge one, means not to judge the other. Nor to judge the man who thinks he is a lizard and has has surgery and body art to become a lizard. All are equally right and good and sane, by the criteria of the majority of the people posting here. By the way I think both Dozel and Caitlyn are sane but both have used their dysphoria to make money, which makes me question the legitimacy of their particular cases. The lizard man, I believe is genuine in his feelings. Transgenders who go about quietly making the change and transform with no huge fuss are the genuine cases in my opinion. Because they want to be known as the opposite sex, not to be known publicly as the person who used to be the other sex and relish in the attention for making the change.

a reply to: grandmakdw

NO she isn't trans to keep up with the Kardashian women (excuse the pun)

Bruce's first wife was aware of his desire to be woman...way before any of the other tarts showed up.
So you are wrong on that point.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Transgenders who go about quietly making the change and transform with no huge fuss are the genuine cases in my opinion. Because they want to be known as the opposite sex, not to be known publicly as the person who used to be the other sex and relish in the attention for making the change.

So, if you are already famous and publicly known, how would you propose going about this?