Why do people lie about aliens? An in-depth look at why we can discredit near all stories

a reply to: Kandinsky

Before I take myself off-point, the broad tapestry of these reported experiences don't appear to include free-will. We can't retrieve physical objects from dreams or hallucinations and, if real, experiencers can't retrieve them from whatever reality their abductions occur in.

That's really where I am going with my thoughts. If its not a dream or a hallucination then its something else that is not yet defined. Even if its technology we don't understand, is that any different then another dimension we have no understanding of either? But the insistence is that these are physical encounters. Physical things will leave physical traces even if its something physically shutting down electronic devices so as to avoid having their picture taken. One way or another a cam will record something whether its someone sleeping or someone missing from their bed or a blank screen. Even If these are truly rare occurrences and random, it would be just a matter of time as these types of electronic devices are getting more and more common every day. At the very least, we should be able narrow it down to some degree. I just don't get the "don't even try" attitude. Is that a tell?

Tyler Kokjohn has had a lot to say on these scenarios - a micro-biologist. He's offered sound solutions for proving the reality of abductions. For instance, if a woman is pregnant, there are residual biological markers that can be tested. This applies to all stages of pregnancy and 'should' provide evidence of the historical claims of abbreviated pregnancies. He's had no takers so far...

That seems like a solid approach.

The 'ashtrays' argument is glib, in my opinion, even if it's popular.

Perhaps it is glib but maybe it shouldn't be taken too literally? It is obnoxious in a way but it is just stating the obvious and that is; physical things leave physical evidence just like the pregnancy test you mentioned.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Xtrozero

I have always said throw a dead alien up on my kitchen table and you got me as a believer...

Don't let Tucker (my dog) at it.

My Husky eats slugs so I'm guessing an alien is right up there too... hehe

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

In a response to Scdfa, I learnt just now commercial flights started 1914 and then the year after 1915 a UFO was reported, then again in the 20s and has just been snowballing every since.

What's your point? You think airplanes pre-date UFO encounters?

Do your homework.
The "mystery airships" wave of sightings and encounters took place in the 1880s in several states.

And, actually, no one reported a "UFO" until 1953, when the Air Force invented the term.

Now you learnt that, too.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Don't you find it funny that ufo sightings started being reported after commercial flights started? Just a coincidence right..

Sorry, but wrong. The "mystery airships" were in the 1880s, in several states. Ignorance, not coincidence.

The Nuremberg sightings were in 1561.

There was a UFO sighting on Columbus' voyage.

Go as far back as you want.

12th century Japan.

Ezekiel.

The Vedic texts.

You should be learning, not arguing.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

We are a people constantly in denial of many things, and what's sad is when a person wants to believe enough they will. Which sheds much light into that study "Reality doesn't exist until we measure it."

I couldn't agree more about people in denial of alien contact, and it being sad. And UFOs don't exist until you can measure them, right?

Oh my.

"No one reported a UFO until 1953 when UFO discovered the term"

Then, if an object is flying and you don't know what it is, it's automatically termed 'Alien' because the military didn't come up with "Unidentified Flying Object?"

Sir the further back you go, the worse it gets, the less proof you have. The more you go back in time the stronger the argument of dragons and mermaids.

It's interesting to know I can go fabricate a story right now and publish it and probably make a believer out of you. You jump to anything. Go read some ghost stories those go way back, 16th century. And because you work off "Detailed description" you should believe their story.

It's funny you'd rather look at the majority of the world in denial instead of yourself. You must be so very far above us unintelligent peasants.

The electrical brain wave activity of the alien abductee patients looks similar to that of patients who have experienced traumatic brain injury, he said.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom



Great Ideas, good thread despite the defensive posts needing to tell you that their experiences are real ET experiences even though you never said all were lies.

Just reading a few of your posts here and there and wanted commend you on your rational and open thinking.

Have to agree with much if not almost all you have posted in this thread.

I do find it very telling though how some have responded, I guess people see and believe what they choose and the lines get blurred and one thing is misinterpreted for meaning something else even though you made quite clear statements and expressed your opinion in a non offensive way (in my opinion), it seems it offends some, maybe the saying the truth hurts plays a little role in some of the responses or maybe its just you were misinterpreted for using a brush to paint all in the same colour when you clearly were not.

Keep up the good work and welcome to ATS,

This place needs more denying ignorance thinking and less Believe me or you are a dis info agent types of thinking.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Then, if an object is flying and you don't know what it is, it's automatically termed 'Alien' because the military didn't come up with "Unidentified Flying Object?"

I'm sorry, but you're making it harder to take you seriously.
I simply pointed out the fact that the term UFO was invented by the Air Force in 1953. No one used the term before that. It is a simple statement of fact, to argue the point makes you look foolish.

The mystery airship encounters from the 1880s were widely reported in the newspapers, and if you're unaware of the Nuremberg incident of 1561, you should educate yourself before you try to dismiss it out of hand.
The same goes for the sightings in 11th century Japan.

Your ignorance is showing.
You're long on opinions but woefully short on facts.

It's funny you'd rather look at the majority of the world in denial instead of yourself. You must be so very far above us unintelligent peasants.

Well, I don't like to brag, but certainly above some of you, yes.
The aliens probably had a good reason for selecting my family.

And let's make something very, very clear. The title of this thread itself is a lie.

"Suspicious Tom" has no evidence whatsoever that nearly all alien accounts are lies.

None.

I challenge him to provide evidence that even one percent of alien contact accounts are lies.

He can't, because it isn't true. Let's see the evidence for that.

That's why people reacted so strongly against his unfounded, untrue, and sadly uninformed opinion.

You can't tell a lie about nearly all witnesses, contactees, and abductees and not expect people to call you out on it.

originally posted by: Scdfa
You are so unaware of the world you live in, I feel sort of bad for how overwhelmed you're going to be if and when you find out for yourself. But not too bad.

I'm educating you guys. You're welcome, even though you're not thanking me.
Not yet, anyway.

I'm unapologetic, and I should be. I know what I'm talking about and I would be derelict in my responsibility to every human being I know if I do not raise the alarm.

That's the typical response to be expected. It's like the religious zealot wandering the streets with a "JESUS IS COMING" sign and his speech:
Wake Up People The Day Is Coming! Mark my words I Have Spoken To Him! Repent! All Who Don't Believe Will Be Sorry!
If you walk up to him and ask how he knows this, he'll give a similar response that you give about aliens. No direct evidence, just a "trust me, I'm telling the truth" attitude.
The internet age UFO/alien parallel.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

That's the typical response to be expected. It's like the religious zealot wandering the streets with a "JESUS IS COMING" sign

Surely you're brighter than this?

Did the US Air Force spend 30 years compiling Jesus sightings? With a lead investigator who determined that they were genuine?

These vehicles are a reality, aren't they? The evidentiary record of photographs, video, film, and radar prove that.

I'm not sure what Jesus flies around in, but the Air force isn't chasing it.

Hey, I could be wrong, maybe you're not brighter than this.

People got offended because of perspective. I deliberately wrote that title the way it is to grab attention.

"Why do people lie about aliens?" - There are people who do. This doesn't indicate that the greater majority lies.

"Why you can discredit nearly all stories" - Since time, how many stories have been proven a hoax? I'd want to imagine alot.

Discredit in this context would essentially lean towards, there's no SOLID evidence to believe in a story which is why it can be easily tossed aside. But the title did just as I had hoped. Sparked controversy.

Before the lesson in english is completed the saying "Unidentified flying object" holds true for any object which has flight that is unknown to a person. Is this false? Are you trying to say because the term came about 'officially' it can't be used to define things before 1953?

But you were too caught up in emotions to read with an open mind, I then further addressed the title many times.


As for your other comment, the further back in time you go the closer you get to biblical days.
"I saw something flying in the sky" - "I saw a man walk on water"

War without residue? Without bodies? What kind of war was that :/? No craters? Nothing? No free falling residue hurts anyone? I do not disregard the situation but there's still no proof of what may have happened. In those times, as you can notice. Anything that occurred was instantly associated with heavens and god. But as I said I haven't studied it, and so I won't run on a train to try and debunk it. I probably will look into it deeper when I get the time. But it's all about having an open mind and looking at it from many different angles until you get solid proof.

The earliest documentation of fireworks dates back to 7th century China

As I've said, you should probably read up some mermaid stories.

The last time I was with Jesus, I at least managed to slip one of these into my pocket:



Harte

As far as the consensus that odd experiences are best kept to oneself to avoid the ribbing, I just have to disagree.

Who cares if some smug reductionist poo-poos you... that's par for the course... there are far more people willing to listen and/or who have had similar experiences, and being an anonymous forum, this is the best place to tell about and discuss weird experiences.

And really, what is the smug reductionist even doing here if they truly felt there was nothing to discuss? Usually, I find they are people who experience the impossible and are trying to convince themselves it didn't happen in order to carry on their world view.. .they are to be pitied, actually... shattered paradigms can be dangerous.

The data should be discussed somewhere, and more access the better.. so if something weird happened to you, it's your duty, as I see it, to tell others.

How else are we to learn? So buck up, folks, and spill it.

And I've seen tech that had no business being there according to our paradigm, had numerous haunting and esp experiences and generally have had my own worldview shot to heck.... I know things exist that shouldn't and that we know so much less than we, in general, think we do. Weird stuff happens.

originally posted by: Baddogma
Usually, I find they are people who experience the impossible and are trying to convince themselves it didn't happen in order to carry on their world view.. .they are to be pitied, actually...

I must respectfully disagree with this, as I find that they are typically rational, scientific-minded types who simply don't want to jump to egregious conclusions without sufficient evidence. And yes, I include myself in that group.

That's not to say that people as you've described don't exist, and aren't present here on ATS, I just don't think that they're very common.

Edit: Just to clarify, I think that discussions of unknowns are quite important, and I have no issues with them as such. Where I take issue, is when somebody makes definitive claims, based on their pre-conceived notions, without any solid evidence corroborating those claims.

I'm open to many things, including the possibility of extraterrestrials visiting us. Just show me some actual evidence.

a reply to: Scdfa

I think the centuries long serious study of Jesus on Earth as a physical being, trumps that of the serious study of aliens on Earth as physical beings. How many "lead investigators" have determined Jesus is real through textual evidence?
They both share similarities though:
- Their existence is a possibility.
- Their existence on Earth has yet to be proven as a 100% fact.
- Their convicted existence by "believers" is based mainly on faith.

Instead of someone strutting around holding a "JESUS LIVES" sign, maybe you're more like Rev. Gene Scott. I remember picking up his broadcast on the Satcom 5 satellite in the days of receiving live feeds on large satellite dishes. He would sit in silence sometimes until his viewers pledged X amount of $$.
I didn't watch because I was religious, or because he would show home movies of himself sitting by the pool at his mansion surrounded by women in bikinis. I'd watch fascinated with his animated angry delivery and attempts at manipulation of his viewers for cash. Which sadly worked on some.

a reply to: Harte

Jesus ashtray. Nothing more needs to be said.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Before the lesson in english is completed the saying "Unidentified flying object" holds true for any object which has flight that is unknown to a person. Is this false? Are you trying to say because the term came about 'officially' it can't be used to define things before 1953?

You can call it anything you want. Sorry that simple statement of fact confused you so badly. And it was more of a history lesson than an English lesson.

What's more important, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim that nearly all claims of alien contact are a lie.

Think you can get to that now?
Or are you willing to admit that claim you made was the lie?

originally posted by: Harte
The last time I was with Jesus, I at least managed to slip one of these into my pocket:

Harte

That is all the proof I need!

originally posted by: Scdfa
What's more important, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim that nearly all claims of alien contact are a lie.

A claim like that can't be proven. Just like you can't prove that a single claim of alien contact is true.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Before the lesson in english is completed the saying "Unidentified flying object" holds true for any object which has flight that is unknown to a person. Is this false? Are you trying to say because the term came about 'officially' it can't be used to define things before 1953?

You can call it anything you want. Sorry that simple statement of fact confused you so badly. And it was more of a history lesson than an English lesson.

What's more important, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim that nearly all claims of alien contact are a lie.

Think you can get to that now?
Or are you willing to admit that claim you made was the lie?

Did I not just school you in English? If not read it again. I never claimed "Nearly all are a lie" I claimed we can discredit stories. And that is a fact, if you tell me a story and have no substantial evidence I can essentially disregard it, because it is just that, a story. You've shown time and time again that you selectively read, and interpret it however you want to and then assume you are right and others are essentially wrong in all aspects. You create the situation you want, I don't think its the first you've done it..

If at this point reading every reply I have made to you, you cannot find flaw within yourself I cannot assist you. I mainly reply to you keep the thread going to be honest, looking for more insightful comments.