Children as young as 12 are receiving drugs to prepare them for sex change!

Many, many kids dress up in girls clothing etc, as part of playing dress up.

We used to do it as children.

Now, parents are taking it as a sign that their kids must be transgendered and are getting them prepared for the switch.

We've become a society of ridiculousness backed up by questionable psychiatry and science.

"Just because we could, doesn't mean we should".

There are many, many questions surrounding whether or not people should even undergo unnecessary plastic surgery, let alone gender reassignment.

I wonder how many people who claim to be transgender need to go back to what they were before after they've had a chance to live as the other sex.

originally posted by: babybunnies
Many, many kids dress up in girls clothing etc, as part of playing dress up.

This is -not- the same as that.

There's a world of difference between playing dress up and knowing internally that you're not what people keep trying to tell you you are.

There's also a world of difference between playing dress up and the years of behavior opposite of what everyone keeps trying to tell you you are.

It doesn't matter what I wore. I knew I was a girl. Being forced to be something I wasn't was the source of my unhappiness and my parents simply recognized that after trying everything they could to convince me otherwise.

The original post is simply talking about postponing puberty to allow kids enough time to make a good decision.

Just taking hormone blockers does not make a kid transgender. They may chose to pursue a transition to their chosen gender or stop the blockers and not transition.

They're not being prepared for a sex change. They are being given a chance to make that decision without any ill effects of puberty.

a reply to: daryllyn

At least I came here and support the intelligent observation of who opened the thread, I respect the visible expression of surprise and disappointment of this person that was asking of the world was mad or what? to try to explain this so bizarre situation of health centers trying to change gender in adolescents.

I didn't come here to distort the original spirit of the thread, neither to transform it in a stage for a show of transgenders that try to make us think that everything is perfectly normal when children is being mutilated and sterilized by professionals that swore to never damage any person in their job.

I never came here to deviate the discussion to other areas of the transgender experience, nor to move it to a visible off topic discussion.

Your attitude and the one of trappedPrincess and Jadestar is cynical, extremely abusive and irresponsible.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

I know you hate to hear it Angel but you've got us sooooooo wrong. I was scared to even post to this thread because of what I saw written and the attitude of you and others.

My attitude was one of openness in hopes that by being open about and sharing my experiences as one of those kids that I could show that the original poster is over reacting about this being the most vile, evil nasty thing as it was made out to be in the original post.

This is not the world going mad. Overreaction to every advancement in our understanding of the universe and each other is.

Can I ask your age Angel?

a reply to: The angel of light

I never came here to deviate the discussion to other areas of the transgender experience, nor to move it to a visible off topic discussion.

Your attitude and the one of trappedPrincess and Jadestar is cynical, extremely abusive and irresponsible.

I believe we have stayed within the topic, and I very much appreciate Jadestar's, and TrappedPrincess' input on the subject, since they are as close as we have to experts on the matter.

Who better to address the topic of hormone blockers as an adolescent than someone who has actually done it??

How is my "attitude" of wanting equality and tolerance for all persons, abusive? Do you even comprehend what it is that you are saying?

If anyone's attitude here is abusive, it's yours.

Cynicism- is an attitude or state of mind characterized by a general distrust of others' motives believing that humans are selfish by nature, ruled by emotion, and heavily influenced by the same primitive instincts that helped humans survive in the wild before agriculture and civilization became established.

Angel... be honest with yourself. You are the cynic in this thread, WE have been sharing scientific data,research and firsthand REAL life experience. You refuse to accept or acknowledge any of this instead resorting to the same old self-righteous religious rhetoric. I get it you have an opinion, that is fine but at least try to make sense. Most of your post's are very incoherent and all over the place. Reading your response's makes my brain hurt.

*In my best Tony Montana voice* "Ok, you wanna bad guy, I be the bad guy..."

oh and look at that Angel I have 666 stars oooooh it must prove I'm the devil lol







a reply to: The angel of light

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess

oh and look at that Angel I have 666 stars oooooh it must prove I'm the devil lol

I'm so sorry I starred your post now lol You have 667 now.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess

oh and look at that Angel I have 666 stars oooooh it must prove I'm the devil lol

I'm so sorry I starred your post now lol

You have 667 now.

I starred it too. Now it's 668. The Neighbor of Beast.

a reply to: The angel of light

Pot and kettle springs to mind.

[snipped]

I still think it is a medical and mental health issue. I still think there is something amiss when we allow 12-year old children to decide issues of their sexuality. JadeStar and others have insisted that at that age they were fully aware of what they wanted, had no doubts that they were fully mature enough to make these drastic decisions about their bodies.

There is currently a push to move pedophilia from a criminal offense to a sexual preference by a group that also thinks children are capable of 'knowing' what they want, need, and should have.

Tell me again that there is not something really wrong going on with our children. Tell me again why there is so much push in TV series, movies, social media forums, and other media to accept this as perfectly normal. Tell me again why there is a 200-fold increase in children presenting with transgender feelings. Tell me again why parents and so-called medical professionals (some....not all) think it is fashionable, healthy, and okay to hormonally delay puberty in preparation for physical sexual reassignment surgery.

Rant forum or medical conspiracy forum......I still say something is "in the water".

a reply to: daryllyn

I agree with you.
Jade and trapped have been amazing in this thread, both been honest and both have my utmost respect for telling us their point of view and sharing their lives and thoughts with us.
Big thumbs up from me .

a reply to: daryllyn

My Dear daryllyn,

There is a huge difference in medicine or any biological science to be an expert, what normally require many studies , a professional degree and a license in the respective field , and to be a guinea pig. The persons you are mentioning as experts are basically in the second category, they were objects of an extremely risky medical experiment which side effects are not even yet estimated in its full extension for the science.

There is not enough experimental data right now to even measure what are going to be the consequences in the long run for this poor people that instead to be professionally treated for a mental disorder, that is basically at the level of disorder of personality, they were sent to surgery and treated with important amounts of hormones that were not produced by their own bodies.

You can't say that a patient of for instance of aids is an expert in how to cure the illness, not if that person does not have also a degree in medicine to be able to understand all what is happening with his or her immune system. The same can be said of patients of any mental disorder, the best they can claim to be is source of valuable feedback for ulterior analysis by real experts.

Now the feedback of these patients brought to this thread can't be considered as scientific data since it was not professionally evaluated by a physician, psychiatrist or other specialist. What ever they have told here along hours and hours of chat are personal opinions, that by the way in many occasions were shared in the most informal way I ever have seen, touching the borders of what are manners and decorum in the communication.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

I wish you would stop saying they have a mental disorder....just because you want it to be doesn't mean it is.

I am so curious about the lifestyle before conception, during conception, or during preganancy of the parents. It would be interesting to know what medications they took including mood-altering drugs, birth control, viagra, etc. etc. that may have contributed to the abnormality. I am going to call it that because it is not normal regardless of how much we push to make it accepted as normal. But the kids are not to blame and should not be condemned nor ostracized for being what they are. But, for god's sake! Let's find out.

If some kind of hormonal dump is going on or went on within the mother or father either at the time of conception or during gestation, that would be interesting to know. How a physician could know that, however, is probably impossible. Perhaps there are side effects to some of the medications or drugs on the market that a parent may be using or had used prior to the child's conception.

Most of the fund money is going to study the children's dysphoria and reassignment prep. Let's put more money into the etiology. This is not a rant.

a reply to: queenofswords

Dear queensofwords,

I am really sorry the thread was moved, but I invite you to reflect on the situation created into allow to people that were trying to control it for very personal purposes to go so far in their intentions.

I am not surprised that the thread is being moved to another forum, after all since at least two days ago was too much saturated of replies that were lacking of the quality to remain in the original forum.

Unfortunately, in spite of my effort and the one of other serious members to show evidence that there is here certainly a very wrongly focused mental issue, or at least a personality disorder that deserve psychological treatment or therapy, it became a forum of expression of bizarre points of view.

There was by the way too much politics here all the time, people that were replying to posts that were highly philosophical or technical in terms of biological concepts, like chromosomes or side effects of hormonal treatments, with posts that were all the time look like debate promoted by transgenders activism.

Unfortunately, the thread had a chat room performance along so many days, it was not even offering an objective and balanced discussion of the topic, a lot of what it was posted was merely subjective.

I know you didn't plan this in this way but at some point this looked to be the autobiographical thread of two or three transgenders that entered on it.

The discussion remained anchored a lot of the time in to personal justifications, a lot of that responding to the mechanism of psychological self defense of people that are trying to avoid in to enter in depressive episodes around guilt feelings . it was clearly biased in only one direction, the one of proselytism of a cause that in my opinion is dangerously moving around the topic, in a tangential way all the time.

The topic was certainly explored, but it was in a manipulative way, not really accepting how grave is what we are seeing with those poor children that are being treated as guinea pigs.

Again I am so sorry.

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: queenofswords
Unfortunately, this thread has now been moved to the Rant forum.

Where it belonged from the start since what you did was kind of rant about something I am not sure you fully understand.

I still think it is a medical and mental health issue.

While you are right that it is a medical issue, it is a private medical issue between these children, their parents and health care providers.

And regardless of what you think there is no mental health issue here, we are not crazy and over 60 years of research into transgender people has consistently borne that out so to try to mischaracterize us or this subject as that is many decades out of date and only serves to confuse people who do not know that.

The fact that we exist however can make some people crazy. lol. :p

I still think there is something amiss when we allow 12-year old children to decide issues of their sexuality.

Do you understand that gender identity and sexuality are two different things?

Gender is what you or I are. We typically know this by kindergarten. ie: "Are you a boy or are you a girl?"

Sexuality is who you or I desire. This is something which most know by the time they're a young adult. ie: "Do you like girls or do you like guys?"

Can't you see the difference?

JadeStar and others have insisted that at that age they were fully aware of what they wanted, had no doubts that they were fully mature enough to make these drastic decisions about their bodies.

Yes. The drastic change from my and my family's perspective would have been for me to have to have gone through male puberty, facial hair, deep voice and all.

Hormone blockers delayed that until I was older and made more permanent decisions about my future.

Knowing all that you know about me and my background, what would you have had me or my parents do instead? Just let everything happen, out of control and me become a hot mess?!

There is currently a push to move pedophilia from a criminal offense to a sexual preference by a group that also thinks children are capable of 'knowing' what they want, need, and should have.

OMG you did NOT just compare this to pedophilia did you?

Yep, that's what bigots do around any issue involving gender identity or sexual orientation. I forgot. Gotta drive up the fear factor for the people who don't understand right?

Pedophilia has NOTHING to do with health care providers helping trans children and their parents who love them.

Tell me again why there is a 200-fold increase in children presenting with transgender feelings.

Um because its ok now to talk about them with your parents? I remember being so scared whenever we would talk about it because outside my home I was made to feel wrong about it but my parents made me feel comfortable in discussing my feelings with them even though they were puzzled and often frustrated because it wouldn't go away and wasn't a phase (like being into dinosaurs or dress up as some have alleged).

Contrast TrappedPrincess and my experiences? We were born in different times. She had to hide who she was and regrets having gone through male puberty before finally transitioning while I got to live and grow up as a girl in a loving supportive family.

That's called progress. It used to be that trans kids just killed themselves often without anyone knowing they were trans until they read their suicide letter or they'd try to live a lie, even raising kids and stuff before transitioning at 40 or 50.

Do you find that preferable?

a reply to: queenofswords

Tell me again why there is a 200-fold increase in children presenting with transgender feelings.

Do you think that the increase could be because people are no longer being forced to hide who they really are as the taboo and stigma dissipate? And that parents are educating themselves?

Do you honestly think that this is something that is just instantly jumped into? Little Johnny feels like he is really a girl today, and starts hormone blockers the next afternoon?

I'm glad it got moved to the rant forum, because that is exactly where this belongs.

ETA: I can't believe you pulled the pedo card. Pedophilia has nothing to do with gender identity.

a reply to: The angel of light

professionally treated for a mental disorder

You can keep repeating that its a mental disorder, but that doesn't make it so.

originally posted by: queenofswords
I am so curious about the lifestyle before conception, during conception, or during preganancy of the parents.

It would be interesting to know what medications they took including mood-altering drugs, birth control, viagra, etc. etc. that may have contributed to the abnormality. I am going to call it that because it is not normal regardless of how much we push to make it accepted as normal. But the kids are not to blame and should not be condemned nor ostracized for being what they are. But, for god's sake! Let's find out.

Ok. I'll tell you.

My parents were not druggies. They didn't really drink other than the occasional party every few months and later maybe only a couple of times a year.

My mother was a smoker though.

My mother had 4 other children before me. I was the last one born. She didn't drink during pregnancy nor did she smoke.

My parents didn't do anything different than when my 4 other siblings were conceived and they are not trans. Likewise I have cousins whose parents drank up a storm, smoked weed and were not the healthiest people nutrition wise who are also not trans.

There have been plenty of studies looking for environmental causes for transgenderism and transsexuality. There doesn't appear to be any correlation as far as I know.

My parents were fairly healthy people, they both exercised regularly. My dad was in the Navy and remains very fit today.

So. Happy healthy couple + Happy healthy family (all of my siblings took care of me when i was a baby/toddler) = a very unhappy child who was born the wrong sex for her brain.

It really was that simple.

If some kind of hormonal dump is going on or went on within the mother or father either at the time of conception or during gestation, that would be interesting to know. How a physician could know that, however, is probably impossible. Perhaps there are side effects to some of the medications or drugs on the market that a parent may be using or had used prior to the child's conception.

I don't know but there was certainly nothing my parents did any differently before I was born. There are however studies which indicate that this does develop prenatally in the 3rd trimester but I am not up on the state of that research today. (I only looked at it like 5 years ago when I was 15 and wondering what science had to say on why I was born this way.)

Most of the fund money is going to study the children's dysphoria and reassignment prep. Let's put more money into the etiology.

The money has gone to what would help these children and their families because regardless of WHY we exist, we do exist. Science has looked for causes of this since the 1950s and come up pretty empty in terms of all the things you think it could be so you are asking for more money to be spent on what turned out years ago to be dead ends.

No one would love to know why we are who were more than trans people like me but at some point does it really matter?

We're human beings. We don't need a cure. We just need to be us.

originally posted by: queenofswords
Unfortunately, this thread has now been moved to the Rant forum.

No, that's where it belongs.

I still think it is a medical and mental health issue. I still think there is something amiss when we allow 12-year old children to decide issues of their sexuality. JadeStar and others have insisted that at that age they were fully aware of what they wanted, had no doubts that they were fully mature enough to make these drastic decisions about their bodies.

Except countless amounts of counter-evidence has been posted in the thread saying you are wrong and that you not only misunderstood what the procedure was doing, but decided to hyperbolic rant about it. Hence why it was moved.

By the way, who are you to say what JadeStar did and didn't feel as a child? You don't know her from Adam and can't speak for her feelings and thoughts at any point in her life.

There is currently a push to move pedophilia from a criminal offense to a sexual preference by a group that also thinks children are capable of 'knowing' what they want, need, and should have.

Proof this claim. Though, all in all, this claim is quite irrelevant and distracting. The thread isn't about pedophiles and to lump transgenderism in with pedophilia is rather bigoted.

Tell me again that there is not something really wrong going on with our children.

There isn't anything wrong with our children. They are just as human as they've always been. At least now, we are listening to their wants and needs instead of thinking we always know best for them.

Tell me again why there is so much push in TV series, movies, social media forums, and other media to accept this as perfectly normal.

Because it SHOULD be considered normal, and we shouldn't be bashing them because we find it weird. The only way to not find it weird is to make it normal.

Tell me again why there is a 200-fold increase in children presenting with transgender feelings.

Because when something becomes acceptable, people who were afraid to come forward before start coming out of the woodwork.

Tell me again why parents and so-called medical professionals (some....not all) think it is fashionable, healthy, and okay to hormonally delay puberty in preparation for physical sexual reassignment surgery.

Because it is MUCH safer than just going through with gender reassignment surgery at the age of 12, plus it lets the child think about the decision for a while. This all coupled with the fact that hormone blocking isn't permanent means that the child could easily change its mind.

Rant forum or medical conspiracy forum......I still say something is "in the water".

Yea, your antiquated opinions.