Ex-army chief urges PM to consider 'boots on the ground' to fight Isis

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: EvanB I don't know there is no strategy , but a government minister this morning said there would be no british boots on the ground, just helping countries in the region deal with it like syria and Iraq. That don't sound like a strategy

sounds like a strategy to me...what's that other old strategy? "get others to die for you, rather than yourself"

a reply to: woodwardjnr


I've not supported a single invasion or conflict we've been involved in post 9/11... but I'm almost tempted to want us to do "something" about the slaughter of people in the region and the utter destruction of some amazing historical buildings and artefacts..... like I said... almost

It's so frustrating that nothing is being done but I don't think a conflict or war is the answer.


Hmmmm

a reply to: blupblup

I would never support sending British troops to fight and risk death over historic buildings.
Save innocent lives? Maybe, but not this time.
It is a Wahabi/Sunni/Shia Muslim conflict. Let Wahabi/Sunni/Shia nations deal with it.

a reply to: grainofsand

but it looks like they can't. Thus the lesson we are given that we need a working world police and that the world has to pay it a part of the expenses.

The concern for me too, is, do we create a whole load of new terrorists, by getting involved. There will be innocents getting killed who's families grow up to be the next generation of terrorist. It' has the possibility to be endless violence. Any intervention will also attract every extremist in the world to the region and just make things even more dangerous than they already are. I don't know it's also what ISIS want fulfill their insane prophecies

originally posted by: PapagiorgioCZ
a reply to: grainofsand

but it looks like they can't.

Nope, it looks to me that they don't want to.
Here's a few Muslim nations with armed forces nearby, Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Turkey, Saudi, UAE, and Bahrain.
It is their backyard, not ours here in the UK.
I don't support any calls for a 'world police' and doubt I ever will.

a reply to: grainofsand

If they don't want to also means they are not working. The reasons are secondary. Be it lack of intel, money, will, mandate or a presence of some obstructions.
Everyone knows who is the one able to clear the mess so they are actually waiting for it as they are used to.
I think even Russians are waiting for a republican saying we can't give them a decade or two and wait if they can handle situation like this. It's cheaper and they will be able to yell at him
It's a gang war and you want the citizens to organize a militia eventually let the Crips and Bloods kill each other. I can understand your stance I'm just playing the opposition so we can see it from all sides

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: woodwardjnr


I've not supported a single invasion or conflict we've been involved in post 9/11... but I'm almost tempted to want us to do "something" about the slaughter of people in the region and the utter destruction of some amazing historical buildings and artefacts..... like I said... almost

It's so frustrating that nothing is being done but I don't think a conflict or war is the answer.


Hmmmm

Sue the answer is to let them kill everybody and get it over with

Then we could watch it at home on the news while we eat our steak dinner and have our nightly popcorn


And then we could all wait for these lunatics to start to get a nuclear bomb, then to get all kinds of Jihadi lunatics to come here and play

a reply to: GAOTU789

People’s kids freely sign up for this volunteer army


I have all my life told kids not to sign up


But if you do you might die so Dick Cheney can have a bigger Golf course


They know what they get into


That’s why I advocate a massive response so less will die to destroy this evil


But they will again have one of these cowboy and Indians war of attrition so money can be made

In a nutshell, I hate ISIS and they have clearly given up their right to live among decent people. They have forfeited the right to continue in any civilization.

I've been listening to some news this morning (after deliberately taking a break from it for a few days) and the talking heads have been subtly and sometimes not so subtle, indicating that we might have to take care of this. The Iraqis are either unwilling or incompetent to manage it, so they say.

On the other hand, We so often hear "there are x-number of billions of Muslims on the planet", and yes, I suppose so. And with that number, they cannot together muster up an army to go end this slaughter that 50,000 people or so are reeking all over the middle east? What? Are they waiting for us to do it? So see, this sorta sets my teeth on edge.

There is a stubborn streak within me that says "no, let them do it." Not our war and I don't want our young people over there dying anymore. Americans, Canadians, Australians, Brits ---- all have died over there.

And WillTell, you tell me please. Why should we go? You know the collateral damage when we go. Innocents are killed, infrastructure is destroyed, which we are then expected to replace. The world rises up and raises hell everytime a mistake is made and innocent dies. Why should we go?

And another question, sincerely I need an answer --- why can't they do it themselves?

originally posted by: Willtell



That’s why I advocate a massive response so less will die to destroy this evil

So you're signing up too or just other peoples kids? Money where your mouth is and all that, right? There are a half dozen nations that these scum are having a direct affect on and they need to step up to the plate, not us. The west sells billions of dollars of weapons to those countries, time to take them out of the closet and do something.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
why can't they do it themselves?

They can, they just don't want to.
It is a solely Wahabi/Sunni/Shia Muslim conflict and there are plenty of Islamic nations with strong armed forces in the region, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Egypt...
They just don't want to, and I feel the same about British troops, I don't want them fighting in another Islamic conflict when Islamic nations with armed forces in the region can deal with it themselves.

a reply to: grainofsand

They can, they just don't want to.

That's basically what I've considered as well. I don't think we should go either. Plus, ending killing by killing....... I'm so freakin' sick and tired of it.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I certainly do not see the UK getting involved this time, most people are now questioning why aren't Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt etc sorting it out this time. It is in their back yard and a solely sectarian Muslim conflict after all.
Even if Cameron even wanted to he is not that stupid to risk his slim majority government here. There is little public support for it.
Again though, I support humanitarian aid from the UK.
Just not a drop of British blood when the neighbouring Islamic nations with effective armed forces in the region are doing nothing.

originally posted by: GAOTU789

originally posted by: Willtell



That’s why I advocate a massive response so less will die to destroy this evil

So you're signing up too or just other peoples kids? Money where your mouth is and all that, right? There are a half dozen nations that these scum are having a direct affect on and they need to step up to the plate, not us. The west sells billions of dollars of weapons to those countries, time to take them out of the closet and do something.

The US has an obligation simply because
They should have never gone in in the first place and started the war

All your talk about your kids, my kids is all water over the bridge since the US should have thought about that when they went in and now 5000 Americans and 1 million Iraqis are dead and that country—because of that invasion--- is in ruins.

That’s why America has an obligation.

Its too late to worry about the ramifications

Its like somebody starts a fight and then it gets tough and then the one who starts the fight starts talking about how I could get hurt

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
In a nutshell, I hate ISIS and they have clearly given up their right to live among decent people. They have forfeited the right to continue in any civilization.

I've been listening to some news this morning (after deliberately taking a break from it for a few days) and the talking heads have been subtly and sometimes not so subtle, indicating that we might have to take care of this. The Iraqis are either unwilling or incompetent to manage it, so they say.

On the other hand, We so often hear "there are x-number of billions of Muslims on the planet", and yes, I suppose so. And with that number, they cannot together muster up an army to go end this slaughter that 50,000 people or so are reeking all over the middle east? What? Are they waiting for us to do it? So see, this sorta sets my teeth on edge.

There is a stubborn streak within me that says "no, let them do it." Not our war and I don't want our young people over there dying anymore. Americans, Canadians, Australians, Brits ---- all have died over there.

And WillTell, you tell me please. Why should we go? You know the collateral damage when we go. Innocents are killed, infrastructure is destroyed, which we are then expected to replace. The world rises up and raises hell everytime a mistake is made and innocent dies. Why should we go?

And another question, sincerely I need an answer --- why can't they do it themselves?

First of all, I don’t advocate WE

I have many times posted MY plan for ISIS.

It’s a UN based coalition...A REAL WORLD COALITION, not this phony one that Obama stitched together with the very jack assess who support ISIS

Not just the US, btw

Look, again the world sits idly by while a savage genocide will and is taking place


The country responsible for this mess in the first place, THE US, should and is obligated.

Its no way around that. The deed of the invasion forever brands this country until things related, good and bad, to that invasion are cleared up


But I advocate a world coalition not just the US


But does it really matter what we think or say?


These evil bastards are going to do what they want to do

a reply to: Willtell

Cool, send US troops if you like, not my country so I don't really care.
The UK won't be following you though, we learned our lesson after believing US government lies about WMD's being "45 minutes away from harming us" last time.
I only know there is little support for UK forces going there so you can get involved in a solely sectarian Muslim conflict as much as you like.

As this latest Western manufactured ‘terror nightmare’ continues to unfold in Iraq and Syria, we’ve learned that US President Barack Obama has now asked Congress to authorize direct military aid and equipment to be sent to ‘the rebels’ in Syria. This latest stage of Washington’s project in Syria is said to total $500 million, expanding the covert CIA/FSA training facilities that have ties to ISIS in both Jordan and Turkey…

www.globalresearch.ca...

ISIS Supply Lines Originate in NATO's Turkey : Report

November 30, 2014 "ICH" - "LD" - Germany's international broadcaster Deutsche Welle (DW) published a video report of immense implications - possibly the first national broadcaster in the West to admit that the so-called "Islamic State" (ISIS) is supplied not by "black market oil" or "hostage ransoms" but billions of dollars worth of supplies carried into Syria across NATO member Turkey's borders via hundreds of trucks a day.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...


would that not be like advocating friendly fire?
or is that fiendly fire?

And btw the countries over there are dealing with it. Not too successfully though.

The two victim countries of US meddling, Iraq and Syria are dealing with it.

The other dogs over there( Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait--US allies) are the ones really assaulting them for the exception of Iran

Who is valiantly trying to save both Iraq and Syria

It issue is not WHy ISIS exists we all know it was part of a failed strategy that continues to play out before our eyes. The problem is when should we stop them? As they get stronger MORE attrocites will occur,MORE incompetant leadership will be displayed so long as we fail to understand combat and WHY/WHO we fight. Obviously only the west CAN fight with sufficent skill to halt them.
To arbitrarily SIT THERE and say "Oh not MY people only forments a larger issue that will fester and grow until WE have no choice.
I don't know all of the secrets ot ALL of the strategies only how the situation has played out.