It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Ex-army chief urges PM to consider 'boots on the ground' to fight Isis
page: 1share:
A former head of the army has called on the government to “think the previously unthinkable” and consider sending ground troops to combat Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. Sir Richard Dannatt, the former chief of the general staff, said he felt air strikes had failed to stop the advance of the extremist organisation and urged parliament to debate deploying up to 5,000 infantry soldiers.
www.theguardian.com...
I thought this was interesting from this mornings papers. Not sure how I feel about it. The government business secretary on Andrew Marr this morning said the UK would not put boots on the ground, but would support countries in the region to tackle ISIS. Including Syria and Iraq. Now it was only a few years ago we had a debate whether to go into attack Assad and Syria, now we want to help syria and Iraq take on ISIS. It seems our foreign policy is so mixed up we don't have a clue what we are doing. Helping one side then the other. If we don't have a clear policy over ISIS, we shouldn't be making any hasty decisions that will back fire in our faces. The west needs to get its priorities straight before making any more decisions over this part of the world.
Putting boots on the ground is playing right into ISIS desires. They want to take on western forces on the ground and we are contemplating doing it.
What does ats have to say?
Previously unthinkable?! That's funny, because I was "thinking" boots on the ground the first time I heard the word ISIS. The posts are in my
history.
Ass-hat I mean Assad has been rather quiet lately don't you think?
In fact, the only leader in Syria doing any talking at the minute is the Syrian PM, Wael Nader al-Halqi.
Funny, if Assad is an Mi6 asset -- he's probably in London again right now with his misses.
In fact, the only leader in Syria doing any talking at the minute is the Syrian PM, Wael Nader al-Halqi.
Funny, if Assad is an Mi6 asset -- he's probably in London again right now with his misses.
edit on 24-5-2015 by socketdude because: (no
reason given)
Welcome to the end of days.
And i dont mean the end of the human race just the end of a cyclus. The long awaited S is almost touching the ven. Please put on your masks cause its about to get dirty
And i dont mean the end of the human race just the end of a cyclus. The long awaited S is almost touching the ven. Please put on your masks cause its about to get dirty
This would be an unmitigated disaster in my opinion.
We couldn't achieve anything in Afghanistan and Iraq originally. What makes them think this time would be any different?
I agree this would be playing straight into the hands of ISIS. However having said that I am disturbed by what ISIS are doing, not just in their wanton murder of people but also their destruction of historical and cultural sites.
There is already enough violence and destruction over there. The UK causing even more won't help the situation.
We couldn't achieve anything in Afghanistan and Iraq originally. What makes them think this time would be any different?
I agree this would be playing straight into the hands of ISIS. However having said that I am disturbed by what ISIS are doing, not just in their wanton murder of people but also their destruction of historical and cultural sites.
There is already enough violence and destruction over there. The UK causing even more won't help the situation.
a reply to: woodwardjnr
Although the government was quick to reject this idea, I think they should seriously consider this move, because as can be seen from the map below, this ISIS threat is right on your doorstep.
/sarc
War Pigs and their industry of destruction, death and forced hatred are the sole reason terrorism exists...........move on war pigs, this century belongs to the pioneers of peace.
ISIS is no match for the BILLIONS of peace loving humans - your propaganda is transparent - unlike your policies.
Although the government was quick to reject this idea, I think they should seriously consider this move, because as can be seen from the map below, this ISIS threat is right on your doorstep.
War Pigs and their industry of destruction, death and forced hatred are the sole reason terrorism exists...........move on war pigs, this century belongs to the pioneers of peace.
ISIS is no match for the BILLIONS of peace loving humans - your propaganda is transparent - unlike your policies.
edit on 24-5-2015 by Sublimecraft because: this time the wine made me do it.
If we had a clear strategy I might be convinced, but after our strategy so far has been so disjointed I'm certainly wary. I do think ISIS is the
biggest threat in the region that should be the priority of the west. Not Assad or Iran. Iran out of all the countries in the region if anything seem
to be most committed to the destruction of ISIS. I'm obviously no expert on the situation, but we need to commit to one strategy and take any help we
can get,
a reply to: Sublimecraft
The "billions of lovers of peace" are sure doing a magnificent job of stopping ISIS, aren't they? The way they kept hold of Ramadi was awe inspiring.
Somebody is gonna have to kick the snot out of ISIS. The Kurds can't do it by themselves, no matter how hard they try. The Iraqi "army" clearly can't.
Though I suppose we could all line up and try to get them to hug it out.
The "billions of lovers of peace" are sure doing a magnificent job of stopping ISIS, aren't they? The way they kept hold of Ramadi was awe inspiring.
Somebody is gonna have to kick the snot out of ISIS. The Kurds can't do it by themselves, no matter how hard they try. The Iraqi "army" clearly can't.
Though I suppose we could all line up and try to get them to hug it out.
a reply to: Sublimecraft
Well, I have to disagree with your post.
ISIS can get fighters to Turkey as easy as an Englishman going to Scotland -- and so too can a fighter get from Turkey to Romania.
Look at how many Romanian's have illegally immigrated to the UK.
Edit: (Added for drama)
They're coming. And they're GOING TO KILL US ALL AND BEHEAD OUR CHILDREN!
Well, I have to disagree with your post.
ISIS can get fighters to Turkey as easy as an Englishman going to Scotland -- and so too can a fighter get from Turkey to Romania.
Look at how many Romanian's have illegally immigrated to the UK.
Edit: (Added for drama)
They're coming. And they're GOING TO KILL US ALL AND BEHEAD OUR CHILDREN!
edit on 24-5-2015 by socketdude because: (no reason given)
Perhaps NATO could focus on ISIS as opposed to constantly aggravating Russia.
Although hyping Russia allows an excuse for increased defense spending and big contracts for the arms companies I suppose. Notice how every single time Russian bombers fly towards the UK (which isn't anything new or remotely threatening) the media and particularly the BBC report it every single time.
Although hyping Russia allows an excuse for increased defense spending and big contracts for the arms companies I suppose. Notice how every single time Russian bombers fly towards the UK (which isn't anything new or remotely threatening) the media and particularly the BBC report it every single time.
I would never be convinced this would be the right move, as we saw with Iraq and Afghanistan, there really is no clear strategy. We could become
embroiled in years of years of warfare, which will make the first two conflicts look like a bun fight.
We appear to be doing our upmost to encourage extremism in our own backyard by following this route and the only way the whole situation can be sorted is by sitting down and negotiating. Negotiations will probably have to take place at some point, so rather than sacrifice other Mother's and Father's children, our Governements need to be brave and do the right thing. It won't happen I'm sure, but it has to be a better option.
We appear to be doing our upmost to encourage extremism in our own backyard by following this route and the only way the whole situation can be sorted is by sitting down and negotiating. Negotiations will probably have to take place at some point, so rather than sacrifice other Mother's and Father's children, our Governements need to be brave and do the right thing. It won't happen I'm sure, but it has to be a better option.
edit on 24/5/15
by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Shamrock6
Since we are dealing with an idea, and since traditional "let's meet on the battlefield and kill it out" ain't workin out as planned here is my final solution..................
Maybe the global community needs to fully endorse these individuals so that ISIS become the recognized caliphate they so desire, then, when they are altogether in one place and feel all safe and justified in their past atrocities, turn them all into glass.
"Be so subtle that you are invisible"
"Be so mysterious that you are intangible"
"Then you will control your rivals fate"
"All war is based on deception"
Sun Tzu
Since we are dealing with an idea, and since traditional "let's meet on the battlefield and kill it out" ain't workin out as planned here is my final solution..................
Maybe the global community needs to fully endorse these individuals so that ISIS become the recognized caliphate they so desire, then, when they are altogether in one place and feel all safe and justified in their past atrocities, turn them all into glass.
"Be so subtle that you are invisible"
"Be so mysterious that you are intangible"
"Then you will control your rivals fate"
"All war is based on deception"
Sun Tzu
a reply to: Sublimecraft
Ahhh. War pigs go away, until we want you to do some stuff for us and then you can come back and do it. But then you have to leave, because we love peace and all. Except that one time when we needed you to wipe some people off the map for us. But we don't talk about that time. Not good for our image.
Great plan and all, aside from the fact you're going to have to give them an area that belongs to somebody else. And it ignores the fact that the "idea," which is something I agree with (that it's fighting an idea; I don't agree with their ideas) still won't be dead and whomever hasn't made it to the caliphate yet won't be eradicated.
Ahhh. War pigs go away, until we want you to do some stuff for us and then you can come back and do it. But then you have to leave, because we love peace and all. Except that one time when we needed you to wipe some people off the map for us. But we don't talk about that time. Not good for our image.
Great plan and all, aside from the fact you're going to have to give them an area that belongs to somebody else. And it ignores the fact that the "idea," which is something I agree with (that it's fighting an idea; I don't agree with their ideas) still won't be dead and whomever hasn't made it to the caliphate yet won't be eradicated.
a reply to: woodwardjnr
I think that remark doesn't mean they are going to be helping the Syrian government fight ISIS, but will instead keep aiding the "rebels" - the good Jihadist rebels of course, not the bad Jihadist rebels.
Despite all the anti-ISIS rhetoric, our own governments see them as a useful tool in the possible overthrow of the Syrian government. It's also very useful post election to use the ISIS bogeyman threat to justify their ever more Orwellian anti-terrorism and radicalization legislation nonsense. Same way they hold off on arresting other assets who they allow to "preach hate" and get all the gullible riled up and calling for the government to "do something".
Smoke and mirrors, mind games and manipulation!
The government business secretary on Andrew Marr this morning said the UK would not put boots on the ground, but would support countries in the region to tackle ISIS. Including Syria and Iraq. Now it was only a few years ago we had a debate whether to go into attack Assad and Syria, now we want to help Syria and Iraq take on ISIS.
I think that remark doesn't mean they are going to be helping the Syrian government fight ISIS, but will instead keep aiding the "rebels" - the good Jihadist rebels of course, not the bad Jihadist rebels.
Despite all the anti-ISIS rhetoric, our own governments see them as a useful tool in the possible overthrow of the Syrian government. It's also very useful post election to use the ISIS bogeyman threat to justify their ever more Orwellian anti-terrorism and radicalization legislation nonsense. Same way they hold off on arresting other assets who they allow to "preach hate" and get all the gullible riled up and calling for the government to "do something".
Smoke and mirrors, mind games and manipulation!
a reply to: Shamrock6
I am not ignorant to the fact that military defences are needed - and they have a place in modern society. I simply disagree that that place is at the forefront of military/industrial complex global policy agenda where they have literally created the enemy they now seek to destroy - and have the lions share of the budget.
And as for convenient, put the military in their box until they are needed - like good little children - seen but not heard. Take the military budgets of western war-pig nations and win the hearts and minds of their own countrymen and women by building infrastructure and creating jobs (that's what the propaganda machine says the coalition of the willing does to Middle East local folks), after all, personal bank accounts and western war-pig nations' global reputation could do with some real change, imo.
F### ISIS, the bogeyman of convenience (with really really good 1080HD video editing skills, and an endless supply of orange overalls)
I am not ignorant to the fact that military defences are needed - and they have a place in modern society. I simply disagree that that place is at the forefront of military/industrial complex global policy agenda where they have literally created the enemy they now seek to destroy - and have the lions share of the budget.
And as for convenient, put the military in their box until they are needed - like good little children - seen but not heard. Take the military budgets of western war-pig nations and win the hearts and minds of their own countrymen and women by building infrastructure and creating jobs (that's what the propaganda machine says the coalition of the willing does to Middle East local folks), after all, personal bank accounts and western war-pig nations' global reputation could do with some real change, imo.
F### ISIS, the bogeyman of convenience (with really really good 1080HD video editing skills, and an endless supply of orange overalls)
originally posted by: socketdude
Ass-hat I mean Assad has been rather quiet lately don't you think?
He is probably too busy fighting us... I mean ISIS.
...We never learn
a reply to: woodwardjnr
Just my opinion, based upon observations of the news and the various governments actions, but I think the "fix" is already in. The "western" leadership has decided to allow ISIS its way; they have no intention of intervening in any meaningful way against ISIS.
In several ways, ISIS is convenient to the west. Recall that the ISIS event is really a Religious civil war, Sunni ISIS v. Shia Iraq/Iran. ISIS is also fighting Shia Assad in Syria and seeks to carve out a Caliphate made up of Syria and Iraq.
If ISIS were to weaken Iraq to the point that Baghdad either actually falls or is isolated and made useless, then ISIS threatens the Shia holy shrines in southern Iraq which Iran has vowed to protect. That would mean a war between ISIS and Iran which might well seriously weaken Iran and its Regime.
If this works out for ISIS, it makes for a very interesting development because it would mean the old national borders established by Britain and France after WWI and WWII would disappear and in their place would arise a new nation state, i.e., the Islamic Caliphate. Syria would be gone and most of Western Iraq would be absorbed into the Caliphate.
Strange times would get even stranger.
Just my opinion, based upon observations of the news and the various governments actions, but I think the "fix" is already in. The "western" leadership has decided to allow ISIS its way; they have no intention of intervening in any meaningful way against ISIS.
In several ways, ISIS is convenient to the west. Recall that the ISIS event is really a Religious civil war, Sunni ISIS v. Shia Iraq/Iran. ISIS is also fighting Shia Assad in Syria and seeks to carve out a Caliphate made up of Syria and Iraq.
If ISIS were to weaken Iraq to the point that Baghdad either actually falls or is isolated and made useless, then ISIS threatens the Shia holy shrines in southern Iraq which Iran has vowed to protect. That would mean a war between ISIS and Iran which might well seriously weaken Iran and its Regime.
If this works out for ISIS, it makes for a very interesting development because it would mean the old national borders established by Britain and France after WWI and WWII would disappear and in their place would arise a new nation state, i.e., the Islamic Caliphate. Syria would be gone and most of Western Iraq would be absorbed into the Caliphate.
Strange times would get even stranger.
a reply to: woodwardjnr
ISIS fulfills the dream of the Sunni muslims flank, the wahhabists. Let them have the Caliphate is the best way for the common low-IQ arabs to understand what sort of half-wit gang they have signed up for. And once they wake up, and understand that the buttocks-up five times a day physical ain't gonna fix it, there is a chance for a religious resolution in that area.
But, before going there, let this ISIS first take the Saudis down, and bring end to there sith rule.
Oh happy days.
ISIS fulfills the dream of the Sunni muslims flank, the wahhabists. Let them have the Caliphate is the best way for the common low-IQ arabs to understand what sort of half-wit gang they have signed up for. And once they wake up, and understand that the buttocks-up five times a day physical ain't gonna fix it, there is a chance for a religious resolution in that area.
But, before going there, let this ISIS first take the Saudis down, and bring end to there sith rule.
Oh happy days.
new topics
-
Parker Solar Probe is about to Kiss the Sun
Space Exploration: 26 minutes ago -
Drones On Live Beach Cam New Jersey.
Aliens and UFOs: 2 hours ago -
Christmas Dinner ??
Food and Cooking: 2 hours ago -
Merry Christmas !!
General Chit Chat: 5 hours ago
top topics
-
This is an interesting picture. Do we actually pick our leaders?
Politicians & People: 17 hours ago, 11 flags -
Merry Christmas !!
General Chit Chat: 5 hours ago, 10 flags -
Christmas Dinner ??
Food and Cooking: 2 hours ago, 3 flags -
Drones On Live Beach Cam New Jersey.
Aliens and UFOs: 2 hours ago, 3 flags -
Parker Solar Probe is about to Kiss the Sun
Space Exploration: 26 minutes ago, 1 flags
active topics
-
Merry Christmas !!
General Chit Chat • 12 • : Encia22 -
Post A Funny (T&C Friendly) Pic Part IV: The LOL awakens!
General Chit Chat • 7949 • : underpass61 -
Mood Music Part VI
Music • 3759 • : lilzazz -
Parker Solar Probe is about to Kiss the Sun
Space Exploration • 1 • : AdultMaleHumanUK -
Drones On Live Beach Cam New Jersey.
Aliens and UFOs • 1 • : WeMustCare -
UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson shot dead in Midtown Manhattan, masked gunman at large
Other Current Events • 176 • : WeMustCare -
Spiritual Solstice
Short Stories • 17 • : SprocketUK -
This is an interesting picture. Do we actually pick our leaders?
Politicians & People • 10 • : montybd -
Trump says ownership of Greenland 'is an absolute necessity'
Other Current Events • 33 • : fringeofthefringe -
Christmas Dinner ??
Food and Cooking • 1 • : Naftalin