How Did the Deceased Sandy Hook Shooter Get Into the Fetal Position?

I remain convinced of the strong possibility that NPD officer SS shot the suspect non-fatally at 9:46:54, hitting him in the right clavicle (audio expert Paul Ginsberg's $6000 disappearing gunshot). This shot, and its echo down those long halls), is audible in NPD 911 call #7 at the 2:59 mark:

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Ginsberg was paid thousands to correctly count the Sandy Hook gunshots; he did just that, including the 9:46:54 shot. He later submitted an amended document that simply omitted that shot (keep in mind that this is the gentleman who hears not one of the 9-12 gunshots on Barbara Halstead's call). The Courant contacted him about this shot; he stated he'd signed a confidentiality agreement and couldn't speak without permission from the state police.

But--back to the suspect. His shirt shows blood at the clavicle site, and possible bullet impact marks:

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Retired police officer and security expert Vincent Riccio has stated publicly that the suspect had gunshot wounds to his chest and head. The videos of his lecture to a law enforcement audience last summer have been removed, but I have copies if anyone would like to view them.

I believe that officers SS and WC cuffed the suspect, and that after seeing the horrific Room 8, WC--a father himself--returned in an understandable rage and shot the cuffed suspect in the head, at least twice, with the "jammed" Bushmaster. Hence SS's radio transmission at 9:51:31 a.m. of "suspect down," two times in rapid succession. Hence also the perp's description as "cuffed and in the fetal position."

In reading reports of other suspicious suicides, in fact, the fetal position is sometimes cited as a red flag for a likely homicide. An email (file #00025240) in the Sandy Hook final report inadvertently included an unredacted picture of the cuffed perp, and he is indeed in the fetal position.

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Hence also other officers' efforts to distance themselves from any rifle use (SS: "Mine was locked in the trunk"), and finally the incredible hullabaloo made over BOTH the Bushmaster and Glock being "jammed" i.e. "inoperable" (therefore no cops could have used them on the perp).

Before people get too upset at this suggestion, please note that the CT State Police clearly thought something was up with WC's statements, giving him multiple followup interviews during each of which he changed his story. They were interested specifically in finding out when, and in what sequence, he entered rooms 8 and 10; in his final amendment, he stated he never even saw room 8 until after he ran carrying the child from room 10 all the way up to the firehouse. His earlier statements place him in room 8 within minutes of entering the school, however.

I believe CSP officer EB could testify to what happened, and I believe in fact that he already sort of did--see this video of him venting to DEEP guys, during which he mimics what he saw happen. He is not likely talking about the inactive scene, because whatever he's describing, he's reenacting it i.e. he saw it take place, and it involved someone picking something long up off the ground and using it on someone else: www.youtube.com...

Courtesy of another observer:

"If swat is called in, they go in first to secure the scene. How did cops get in there first and cuff the dead kid and if cuffed, he should be laying face down since to cuff a guy on his side is pretty impossible in a situation as deadly as that. Cops always put the perp face down when cuffing. Lanza should not have been on his side when cuffed, unless already cuffed and shot in the head and falls on his side already cuffed, or was laid down on his side and then shot in the head. In any situation, the weapons should have been kicked far away from the cuffed body but weren't."

How did the perp get into the fetal position?

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

a reply to: Zephyranth

With the rampant corruption and criminality among LEO's at all levels of power, all criminal investigations are tainted and questionable.

The manipulation of evidence and information absolutely litters this case. I don't know why that is, but it probably isn't for a morally "just" reason.

This is a conspiracy site and good conspiracies can't be readily disproved. Although I'm not an expert on the case, your thoughts presented here are plausible and difficult to disprove.

Nice analysis. Some things definitely do not square with what we've been told regarding this incident.

For example, all of the victims were shot with the AR-15.

The medical examiner's report says Lanza died from a self-inflicted "intraoral" gunshot wound. That is, he put the barrel of the gun in his mouth.

Police testimony suggests that he was shot in the "right rear lower portion" of the head, and we have photos such as this one that show what we can assume (and, indeed, what police testimony assumes) is Lanza's hair stuck to the gun sight.



So if the wound was intraoral, as stated by the person who examined the body, where did those hairs come from?

And if the wound was NOT intraoral, why would Dr. Carver say that it was?

Because an intraoral gunshot wound is more consistent with a suicide than is a shot to the back of the head.

SOMETHING is being covered up. That much seems obvious.

Thanks folks, appreciate it. Carver also said that many victims were struck with bullets "designed to deposit energy in the tissue and stay in" (paraphrasing). Certainly doesn't describe .223/5.56.

If the per has the back of his head blown off there is no reason to roll him onto his stomach to get the perfect cuff.
Especially if he is on his side and the bottom hand is already behind his back.

Besides does it really matter?
I hope your world doesn't revolve around this kid.
Get out and enjoy the world around you.

Btw, the Hartford Courant is continuing to pursue the issue. See especially their latest piece on the lack of after-action report, compared to other cases:

28 Months Later, Review Of State Police Response To Sandy Hook Shooting Lags

www.courant.com...=1

a reply to: samkent

In isolation, the cuffing incident might not be enough to go on; however, in the context of much other evidence pointing to a problem, it is potentially important.

I think it's safe to say that if you ask any law enforcement officer whether GSW suicides are usually found in the fetal position, the answer will be "No."

Is was the state's obvious interest in WC's timeline that led me down this path. If you read the report with that in mind, so very much starts to make sense.

originally posted by: samkent
If the per has the back of his head blown off there is no reason to roll him onto his stomach to get the perfect cuff.
Especially if he is on his side and the bottom hand is already behind his back.

Besides does it really matter?
I hope your world doesn't revolve around this kid.
Get out and enjoy the world around you.

why does it matter to dissuade the OP from his presentation with such a dazzling display of no content?
maybe YOU should get some air...take in the sights
your presence basically justifies the thread

a reply to: Zephyranth

Just a couple of possibilities: a body can/may experience "death spasms." Also known as "the funky chicken." Muscle groups contract. Whole bunch of medical lingo involved, but in a nutshell you may be clinically dead but your entire body doesn't necessarily die all at once. The body may have, essentially, moved itself.

Also, if they searched him (which would be done by rolling him on to his side, or both sides, at some point) there's nothing saying you HAVE to roll him back over. May have just left him however he was when they got done with their search.

Just some ideas.

In my very strongly held opinion. He was terrified of the CIA black ops that murdered his mother and did this entire thing, and he was curled up trying to disappear from the incredible danger to his life. A victim of the whole well orchestrated plot.

And very oddly enough this is quite a controlled topic. First flag in awareness.

a reply to: Unity_99

This right here

An untrained, inexperienced, kid shot a bunch of other crying kids.

This was after murdering his mom.

He somehow grabbed all the guns and ammo and brought them to the car.
He then drove his car to the school and stood outside, covered head to toe in tactical gear and facepaint.
He then walked in and then opened fire.

A) All the weapons and ammo recovered totaled almost 50 #ing pounds. This kid weighed less than 120 soaking wet.
B) He knew how to use the weapons and how to aim with them, despite no prior training or familiarization
3) He murdered his caretaker and only person that showed him absolute love in cold blood
4) He drove a car whilst covered in blood and walked up to a school, looking like rambo
5) Since 2008, it is a mandatory requirement for all public schools in CT to have electronic locks and surveillance, he couldn't have walked in un-noticed

Everything about this doesn't add up.
What happened to the second suspect apprehended that day?
Why the discrepancy in shots fired and weapons used?
A .223/5.56 FMJ bullet leaving the barrel of a standard 18.5 in barrel AR-15 would be traveling at 3,165 FPS or feet per second.
The amount of energy transferred to a body as small as a 6 year would see the bullet go straight through.
It wouldn't even slow down, as troopers found out in Mogadishu. They would shoot the enemy, and the bullet would pass right through them without stopping, leaving a little hole. Most of the time, unless the bullet hit a vital organ or the CNS, they would keep fighting.

SO let me recap this.
An autistic, anti social, scrawny kid lugged around ammo and weapons, got geared up, drove a car to the school, and then walked in un noticed despite the electronic locks and surveillance. Then he opened fire and killed screaming, crying 6 year olds and their teachers.

Bullsh**
A black ops team went in and did it.
This is their MO.
They would have no problem killing kids and women if ordered to do so. They are clinical psychopaths chosen for their disregard to human life.
The last piece of the puzzle?
How do you shoot yourself and then fall in the fetal position?
How does your body stay in that position long enough for police to show up?
Why does the entry point of the bullet not add up to the official investigation?

HOW DID SOMEONE CARRYING LONG ARMS AND TACTICAL GEAR WALK INTO A SCHOOL UN NOTICED?

Anonimoose will release the relevant information next year. And the year after.
They'll keep showing you the tricks behind the lies until 2022 or the fire rises, whichever comes first

a reply to: thisguy27

Even the coronary report says otherwise, but there were really good threads removed. We did read the report on mothers death, and what it meant. But I'm not wasting any more time on this. The real group will be held cosmically responsible, spiritually responsible AND anyone who has blocked those speaking up on this issue, they're also in that group that will be held responsbible. You never follow bad orders.

This kid was murdered after his mother was murdered, and there is enormous evidence that the official story is complete BS but writing it, suddenly you are harming the victims families. Getting the wrong people apparently is not harming the supposed victims families. The logic is completely beyond even contemplating. The whole mistreatment of this was obscene.

Sorry, that poor kid. Understand why he did the fetal position.

a reply to: thisguy27

Sounds legit

When my father's accountant/bookkeeper for his farmer's market was murdered by her paranoid ex, in front of their toddler, she was in bed, and hid under the blankets not that it stopped the rifle blast, but its human nature. Same thing when he was murdered.

a reply to: Zephyranth

At this stage, anything and everything about that incident needs to be questioned. I hadn't read about this particular question before, or at least not much, but have had so many questions on so many aspects of the official account vs. the details reported by various people, that I can't understand why anyone accepts the official version. S&F, for bringing up yet another question, and keeping this discussion open.

A few things:

originally posted by: thisguy27
a reply to: Unity_99

An untrained, inexperienced, kid shot a bunch of other crying kids.

B) He knew how to use the weapons and how to aim with them, despite no prior training or familiarization

He went to the shooting range frequently so I wouldn't say he was completely untrained/inexperienced/not familiarized with the weapons and shooting them.

3) He murdered his caretaker and only person that showed him absolute love in cold blood

Happens all the time, many times with people much younger than Adam.

4) He drove a car whilst covered in blood and walked up to a school, looking like rambo

What makes you think he was covered in blood when he went to the school? He shot his mom while she was in bed and didn't move her body, probably didn't get much blood on him and even if he did, he could have washed up first. Not that it really mattered...

An autistic, anti social

Neither of these would preclude someone from committing mass murder.

he couldn't have walked in un-noticed

scrawny kid lugged around ammo and weapons, got geared up, drove a car to the school, and then walked in un noticed despite the electronic locks and surveillance. Then he opened fire and killed screaming, crying 6 year olds and their teachers.

HOW DID SOMEONE CARRYING LONG ARMS AND TACTICAL GEAR WALK INTO A SCHOOL UN NOTICED?

Why do you keep thinking he snuck into the school unnoticed? He shot his way through the glass at the front entrance. I'm sure he was noticed.

They would have no problem killing kids and women if ordered to do so. They are clinical psychopaths chosen for their disregard to human life.

Why is it that you can believe there was a black ops team made up of "clinical psychopaths" who have a disregard for human life and would have no problem murdering a bunch of innocent little kids, teachers, Adam and his mom but it's so hard to believe that Adam could have also been a psychopath who had a complete disregard for human life and didn't have any problem murdering a bunch of innocent kids, teachers and his mom? If such a team does exist and they did carry this out, then each individual member of that team is just as horrible a person as Adam is alleged to be and proves that there are people out there who can and will commit such an atrocity.

Anyway, the scenario presented by the OP doesn't sound impossible to me. I could see the cops getting Adam into custody and one of them snapping after seeing what he had done and shooting him in a moment of rage. I could then see his fellow officers helping to cover what he did up, because there is a point where you lose sympathy for a person and SH is just the type of event that can push a person to that point.

Do I believe that's what really happened? I don't know, honestly. There are several things I would still like answers to, such as that mysterious letter found in Nancy's bedroom, the people in the woods, the shot through the classroom window that appeared to come from outside and the inconsistencies in gunshot reports and police stories discussed in the OP.

One thing about Adam's hair in the gun scope: It could be possible that Adam played around with putting the gun to the back and/or side of his head when he was about to commit suicide, but found the position to be too awkward and feared it would fail, so he changed his mind and decided to put the gun in his mouth instead.

I don't but the official story either. But the whole hair in the sights thing is trivial. A frustrated person holding a gun could be imagined scratching their head with that end assessing the situation. So to me thats a weak argument and holds no water.

originally posted by: Unity_99
a reply to: thisguy27

Even the coronary report says otherwise, but there were really good threads removed.

Yep. You will find some of the best Sandy Hook threads here if you look for them in the LOL forum.

a reply to: muchmadness

I'd be willing to bet most of them have one or more comments about how nobody died.

Yea, that tends to upset people.

originally posted by: Charizard


Why is it that you can believe there was a black ops team made up of "clinical psychopaths" who have a disregard for human life and would have no problem murdering a bunch of innocent little kids, teachers, Adam and his mom [...]

Multiple black sweatshirts on the ground outside the car.

All four doors of the car left hanging open.

Number of shots fired suggests multiple shooters.

Front glass at entrance appears to have been breached using a shotgun, not an AR-15.

Surviving witnesses describe a gunman wearing a mask, which Adam Lanza was not.

Other surviving witnesses describe a gunman whose appearance was distinctly unlike that of Adam Lanza.

Chain on locked gate at rear of property had been mysteriously cut.

Men detained at the scene and released amid shady explanations for their presence at the school.

Physical evidence of the suicide weapon having been pressed against the outside of Adam Lanza's head when it was discharged, not the roof of his mouth as the medical examiner claims.

Presence of a DNA match to an unnamed convicted felon from a New York state database found on crime scene evidence.