Serious Question: Why are so Many People Afraid/Unaccepting of Transgender People?

Hey wasn't there this guy in the Bible that was like the main character and he was kind of an outcast and targeted with violence. Hmm...imagine that.

t reply to: Annee

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
Hey wasn't there this guy in the Bible that was like the main character and he was kind of an outcast and targeted with violence. Hmm...imagine that.

t reply to: Annee

Imagine that.

Man made Christianity and the real message - - - aren't even on the same playing field.

a reply to: honested3

Lots of reasons.

1. No one knows what box to put you in. Everyone puts others in boxes, regardless of their pointless protestations.
2. You're erasing the line between men and women, a line which has existed in their mind probably their entire life.
3. Other reasons I'm too tired to think of.

Speaking for myself, rather than a stereotyped image in my mind:

I've never knowingly met one.
I don't accept the notion that someone could be "born" a girl trapped in a guy's (or vice versa) body. Your sense of identity doesn't develop until long after you're born.
I'm rather unaccepting of anyone who thinks existing is reason enough for me to accept them.
I'm rather unaccepting of anyone who thinks it means anything to accept someone.

I do not have some agenda, nor do the transgender people I have come to know, I repeat THERE IS NO TRANSGENDER AGENDA! I suppose the only "agenda" we have is to be treated like equal human beings. If there is some other agenda then I don't know about it.

You don't have an agenda, but people don't see that you don't have an agenda. They probably see tens of people speaking out about various things and assume you're just a part of some agenda, regardless of any facts you could present proving otherwise.

Yes the church is wrong...

I'm with you here.

if you are not trans... ... then don't comment like you can understand these struggles...

You are correct. I'm not going to pretend I understand the thought processes that must have gone through someone's head for years on end to convince them to get a gender re-assignment surgery. I'm not going to pretend I understand what it would be like to feel like the opposite gender growing up and not understand it.

PS: I understand that some of the things I've said may, if taken out of context, be considered inconsiderate or hostile, but I mean no harm.

originally posted by: zackli
a reply to: honested3


I don't accept the notion that someone could be "born" a girl trapped in a guy's (or vice versa) body. Your sense of identity doesn't develop until long after you're born.
I'm rather unaccepting of anyone who thinks existing is reason enough for me to accept them.
I'm rather unaccepting of anyone who thinks it means anything to accept someone.

That's because you don't understand the neurological conditions that cause these situations. Science is only beginning to figure out the very real differences between female brains and male brains, and how sometimes the way a brain is mapped out doesn't match the physical body.

My step-grandson is a boy's boy. He takes his big sister's dolls and runs them across the floor making engine sounds. He makes cars and trucks out of dolls. He is not yet two. My step-grandaughter never did anything like that with her dolls. She holds them, cradles them and kisses them. I'm not saying that you know your complete identity at two, but gender identity seems to come pretty early.

I don't know any transgender person who really wants you to "accept" them, whatever that means. I think they want to not be beaten, killed, harassed, refused jobs, or housing simply because they are transgender. They want equal protection under the law, not to be your best friend.

a reply to: Annee
I'm sorry it took so long to reply. I just now read this.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: honested3

Yeah, I think several people touched on it already, but the LGBT movement is being shoved down our throats. In fact, it's downright intolerant of anyone who disagrees with its morality.

Your concept of what is moral - - is yours.

What does that have to do with the dignity of everyone having the same rights?

Precisely correct. Why wouldn't the secularist be willing to compromise in finding a solution that observes everyone's right to freely and indiscriminately practice their own unabridged system of morality?

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: Annee
I'm sorry it took so long to reply. I just now read this.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: honested3

Yeah, I think several people touched on it already, but the LGBT movement is being shoved down our throats. In fact, it's downright intolerant of anyone who disagrees with its morality.

Your concept of what is moral - - is yours.

What does that have to do with the dignity of everyone having the same rights?

Precisely correct. Why wouldn't the secularist be willing to compromise in finding a solution that observes everyone's right to freely and indiscriminately practice their own unabridged system of morality?

You wanna put that in plain English?

You know, so we don't guess and misinterpret.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I don't know any transgender person who really wants you to "accept" them, whatever that means. I think they want to not be beaten, killed, harassed, refused jobs, or housing simply because they are transgender. They want equal protection under the law, not to be your best friend.

Boy, was I wrong... And tired. I'm glad we're [the transgender(s?) and I] all are on the same page. If any of you guys want to go out for burgers, you definitely should. You deserve it. I know I am.

I want everyone to live as long as they possibly can, and the last time I checked, that includes transgendered folk. It is very hard for them to do that when they keep getting shot at or beaten up or stabbed.

originally posted by: honested3

originally posted by: Legman
a reply to: honested3

Crippled individuals did not start this thread. They typically get on with it. They typically do not bemoan they travesties of their woeful lives.


anyway.... good luck with what ever you were trying to get out of this thread. I simply cannot be bothered.



gl

You too, good luck in all your aspirations as a bigot!

Shoutout to the supporters, I appreciate you.

I appreciate you outing yourself here on ATS. Did you see the thread which I and my parents posted in where we talked about me beginning my transition at 7?

Anyone who wants a very personal account from a family, read on at the link below

The story of my early life.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess

Yes it is semantics when being viewed from a "words on little pieces of paper" say comparatively to the gender role/identity that I assume in my daily life.

Sir - your biology is not 'words on paper.'

It is who you ARE.

The role / identy you assume is 'words on little pieces of paper.'

Everyone - yourself included - understands this.

The ones here placating you are doing just that.

I care more for you than they do.

It's a shame this devolved to name calling. (but hardly surprising considering the mentality of some of the people involved - yourself included).


If you want scientific data regarding transgender brain scans and finger ratio studies, and other BIOLOGICAL information which supports that transgender people really ARE who and what they say they are send me a U2U.

originally posted by: Seamrog
Sir - your biology is not 'words on paper.'

It is who you ARE.

The role / identy you assume is 'words on little pieces of paper.'

Everyone - yourself included - understands this.

The ones here placating you are doing just that.

I care more for you than they do.

So we're back to using biology as a reason to discriminate?


This was lifted from a post by Bayne in another ATS thread about Transgender issues:

As for Chromosomes no chromosomes are not 'truth', they are guidelines really. For example a person may have XY chromosomes but Androgen Insensitivity, so despite that Y instead of a second X the person's body might develop female anyway either partially from PAIS (partial androgen insensitivity syndrome)or totally with CAIS (complete androgen insensitivity syndrome).

People are raised on a very simplified version of the biological reality these days, and school science is pretty weak alas so it's easier for people to pass subjects. But the reality is that biology has a lot more blurred lines than people have been generally aware of. And for fairness to exist the crucial absences of peoples knowledge need to be filled in. If there has been a deception it was in people being taught that XX always = female and XY always = male and never taught about XXY or XYY or PAIS or CAIS or Transgender etcetera.

Hopefully that brings the IQ level of this thread up a little?

They also posted this link to one of several FMRI brain scan studies on the subject.

I don't expect most people to read it because I've come to learn most people like their ignorance and will wallow in it if the truth makes them uncomfortable.

If you're ignorant and want to be a bigot, fine, that is your right, however you cannot use biology to justify it because the rather limited biology you know and understand is not the full picture of nature's diversity with regards to sex and gender.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: honested3

originally posted by: Legman
a reply to: honested3

Crippled individuals did not start this thread. They typically get on with it. They typically do not bemoan they travesties of their woeful lives.


anyway.... good luck with what ever you were trying to get out of this thread. I simply cannot be bothered.



gl

You too, good luck in all your aspirations as a bigot!

Shoutout to the supporters, I appreciate you.

I appreciate you outing yourself here on ATS. Did you see the thread which I and my parents posted in where we talked about me beginning my transition at 7?

Anyone who wants a very personal account from a family, read on at the link below

The story of my early life.

Oh neat I will have to look at that thread, and thank you as well for being out there too, its nice knowing trans people aren't alone in ATS. Ad age 7?! Wow you go girl, I wish I could have started that early!

originally posted by: honested3

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: honested3

originally posted by: Legman
a reply to: honested3

Crippled individuals did not start this thread. They typically get on with it. They typically do not bemoan they travesties of their woeful lives.


anyway.... good luck with what ever you were trying to get out of this thread. I simply cannot be bothered.



gl

You too, good luck in all your aspirations as a bigot!

Shoutout to the supporters, I appreciate you.

I appreciate you outing yourself here on ATS. Did you see the thread which I and my parents posted in where we talked about me beginning my transition at 7?

Anyone who wants a very personal account from a family, read on at the link below

The story of my early life.

Oh neat I will have to look at that thread, and thank you as well for being out there too, its nice knowing trans people aren't alone in ATS. Ad age 7?! Wow you go girl, I wish I could have started that early!

Thank you! I know, I hear that from so many older transgender people who tell me how lucky I am to have started so early. I hope that stories like mine become the norm rather than the exception.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: honested3

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: honested3

originally posted by: Legman
a reply to: honested3

Crippled individuals did not start this thread. They typically get on with it. They typically do not bemoan they travesties of their woeful lives.


anyway.... good luck with what ever you were trying to get out of this thread. I simply cannot be bothered.



gl

You too, good luck in all your aspirations as a bigot!

Shoutout to the supporters, I appreciate you.

I appreciate you outing yourself here on ATS. Did you see the thread which I and my parents posted in where we talked about me beginning my transition at 7?

Anyone who wants a very personal account from a family, read on at the link below

The story of my early life.

Oh neat I will have to look at that thread, and thank you as well for being out there too, its nice knowing trans people aren't alone in ATS. Ad age 7?! Wow you go girl, I wish I could have started that early!

Thank you! I know, I hear that from so many older transgender people who tell me how lucky I am to have started so early. I hope that stories like mine become the norm rather than the exception.

Absolutely! And that is the goal and hope for the future. I didn't transition till 31 years old due to a lifetime of hurdles set before me by my family and religion and culture, but even at 31 I feel so lucky, as I know many such as Caitlyn Jenner who haven't started till much later. I am really glad to see you taking a stand for others though, as you know trans people come in all shades of ages.

a reply to: honested3

I think the short answer is that people hating other people has been going on for as long as there has been people. Some people don't like certain races. Some people don't like certain religions. And yes, some people don't like transgender people, but like I said, some people hating other people is nothing new.

Personally, I couldn't care less what people do and how they live their lives. Quite frankly, between work, raising our kid, paying bills, saving for a house, maintaining our home.... as long as people don't bother me I won't bother them. Do onto others and all that.

On this topic in general though, I did read something the other day that doesn't really prove anything, but made me pause for a moment. The comedian Dave Chappelle (which, outside of that stoner movie, I was never really a fan) was discussing what he called "the new intolerance". Not sure if it was just for the interview or if it was part of his stand-up set, but the article said,

"And then there’s that trans joke, in which Dave, finding himself at a poncey gallery party, is stared down when he dares to ask ‘Is he okay?’ after a cross-dresser collapses in the corner. ‘I support anyone’s right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?’"

In a weird way I kinda know what he's talking about (I think). Of course in that scenario, had someone said that, I would find it rude to say the least. However, at the end of the day, isn't there a difference between tolerance and acceptance? Meaning, the vast majority of people (I hope) are tolerant of pretty much everyone else (transgender people included) in that they won't intentionally try to cause them harm (physically, economically, socially, etc). But so long as they aren't causing harm, do they have to fully accept and embrace everyone else? Are people not allowed to feel uncomfortable with the lives of other people? For example, my wife, son and I attend mass on a somewhat regular basis. When that comes up in conversation sometimes (not in a preachy way, just in the course of talking about the events of the day type of stuff) I can tell that some people get a little weirded out. I don't hold that against them at all. Its just not their thing but they don't "hold it against me," so to speak.

As far as the "gay agenda" or "transgender agenda" I think, unfortunately, some regular folks are found guilty by association. While it doesn't really affect me, I can sympathize with people in the LGBT community and I understand that recently a lot of changes in society are going on (gay marriage, etc). But I think what happens is that there is (just my opinion) an over-saturation of media coverage about it. I'll be honest, I can't stand that seemingly every single day I pick up a newspaper or check the news online there is a story about Caitlyn Jenner. Seriously, it is enough already!!!! (Keep in mind I feel the same frustration seeing those god awful Kardashians all over the place). My point, in general (and again, this is my best guess) is that considering the LGBT community is a tiny percentage of the population, there seems to be a HUGE amount of coverage in both news and entertainment. (Again, kinda/sorta guilt by association).

Sorry if anything above is offensive.... certainly not my intention.

Because some folk are afraid of what they don't understand.
Give it a generation and people will be looking back and thinking how backward some are.

a reply to: honested3
This statement, by the OP, is classic:

-I am not mentally ill

In who's opinion? Yours? Before your "trans"ition, YOU were the only one that saw you as "female". Every one around saw YOU, as you were: Male.

Can i be honest? The only reason why most people "accept" it is because they're just being "pollically correct"; afraid to stand up and speak out because they know the consequences. Ask Hulk Hogan, what happens when you say what you feel.

a reply to: JuJuBee

Can i be honest?

Is that what you call it? Most people? Really?

I've been around trans most of my working life. Both pre-op, and post-, and those who didn't have the procedures for whatever reason.

It was a bit of a culture shock for me, I'll be the first to admit it. I was twenty-two, away from family and friends for the first time in my life. Commercial fishing, and the related industry of packing, were in the eighties and nineties home to a rather large minority of trans.

Over the years I got to know many. As colleagues. As friends. Knew many prior to, and after their transformations. ...and to a person they were happier then they were before.

Please don't pretend you speak for the majority, or that you're being honest. You're speaking an opinion. I, for one, manage to accept without fearing some vague consequence.

What, pray, is wrong with accepting them as they want to be, anyway? In what way are they a danger to you?

a reply to: eluryh22

Personally, I couldn't care less what people do and how they live their lives. Quite frankly, between work, raising our kid, paying bills, saving for a house, maintaining our home.... as long as people don't bother me I won't bother them. Do onto others and all that.

The world would be a much better place if more folks would remember, and practise, that. Bully for you!!

However, at the end of the day, isn't there a difference between tolerance and acceptance?

There is, though it's tough to define. I guess it's one of those, you'll know it when it happens to you, things.

There was a time, for me, any way when I practiced tolerance. I didn't associate, but I didn't go out of my way to disregard...Tolerance, or at least a definition that works for me. Somewhere along the line, those first few months, I got over it. Don't know when it happened, or even how...but my outlook changed. Mostly, I think, I grew up. Tolerance/Acceptance, flip sides of the same coin.

Mostly it was a realization that I was bordering on the same sort of behavior that I experienced as a child with birth defects, and associated health issues... It was subconscious, I don't recall actually thinking that, but I know somewhere along the way, it happened.

To this day, I have little problem, if any, accepting those that are veering away from what is laughingly called the mainstream of society. They're people, and deserve, like everyone else to be judged by their actions, not their appearances, or what someone's fears are telling 'em.

Maybe nobody really cares except that it gets stuffed in everyone's face every time the turn on an electronic device. I personally don't care, don't give special attention to trans-anything and wish the subject would just go back to being an individual thing instead of a public outcry thing.

originally posted by: notmyrealname
Maybe nobody really cares except that it gets stuffed in everyone's face every time the turn on an electronic device. I personally don't care, don't give special attention to trans-anything and wish the subject would just go back to being an individual thing instead of a public outcry thing.

No, actually white hetero is constantly shoved in everyone's face.

Equal Rights is not Special attention.