Serious Question: Why are so Many People Afraid/Unaccepting of Transgender People?

originally posted by: Cuervo

I mean that societal progression is almost always a matter of attrition, waiting for those who want to hang on to damaging paradigms to move aside and allow others to move up.

You are very poorly educated (at least) in history.

Millenia aside, I'll just leave it at that.

Not atypical for the narcissists.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Cuervo

I mean that societal progression is almost always a matter of attrition, waiting for those who want to hang on to damaging paradigms to move aside and allow others to move up.

You are very poorly educated (at least) in history.

Millenia aside, I'll just leave it at that.

Not atypical for the narcissists.

What are you talking about? That's exactly how it's worked in history!

Why do you think we've come as far as we have? If we always thought our parents had the right idea, we'd still have slavery and witch burnings.

a reply to: Annee

Hopefully I provided you with enough proof, or source material for my claims, in my last reply.

I have definitely had to fight for the right to identify as the gender I am, against ignorant people. But I will never let a social idea or construct change who I am against my will.

I learned how to just embrace my qualities and not let those arguments/fights influence my decisions in life. And I'm not LGBT.

But I have had to fight for the right to identify as a human being (being black). I hope that the OP never has to go through that.

originally posted by: prepared4truth
a reply to: Annee

Hopefully I provided you with enough proof, or source material for my claims, in my last reply.

I have definitely had to fight for the right to identify as the gender I am, against ignorant people. But I will never let a social idea or construct change who I am against my will.

I learned how to just embrace my qualities and not let those arguments/fights influence my decisions in life. And I'm not LGBT.

But I have had to fight for the right to identify as a human being (being black). I hope that the OP never has to go through that.

Honestly, I can't understand your posts.

You're all over the place and make very little sense.

If you provided links to studies - - I missed them.

originally posted by: Cuervo

we'd still have slavery and witch burnings.

Thank you for proving my point.


Toodles...

a reply to: Annee

That's so sad. I was under the impression that I spoke English very well. I've been told my communication skills are bad by others but... I hear Einstein had similar problems

Position Papers on Homosexuality

During the 1973 meeting of the American Psychiatric Association (APA) a vote of thetrustees reveled that in the opinion of the members, homosexuality was no longer considered to be a mental disorder, the change became effective in the 7
th
printing of the DSM-II (AmericanPsychiatric Association, 1973). Orthodox practitioners in the mental health profession, felt thatthe change in policy was caused by pressures from the gay community and that there wasinsufficient scientific evidence to support such a move by the APA (Bayer & Spitzer, 1982).Based on the recommendations of the APA trustees the category of homosexual behavior was
replaced by a category of “sexual orientation disturbance”.
In sexual orientation disturbance it isonly diagnostically valid to classify an individual as having pathological behavior if theindividual is in some way harmed from normal functioning as a result of their sexual orientation.A seventh printing of the DSM-
II was issued in 1974 to update the APA’s diagnostic position on
homosexuality (American Psychiatric Association, 1973). Neither the DSM-II
7
th
printing(American Psychiatric Association, 1974), nor the DSM-IV-TR contain a complimentaryclassification for heterosexuals who show signs of disturbance related to their sexual orientation(American Psychiatric Association, 2000). Three years after the vote of the trustees, there was ageneral referendum of all active members of the APA in an attempt to reverse the decision intime for the printing of the DSM-III. This caused great conflict throughout the organization,
resulting in a classification of “ego
-
dystonic homosexuality” appearing in the DSM
-III (Bayer &

CHANGES IN THE CLASSIFICATION OF HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIORS 3Spitzer, 1982). Homosexuality and Ego-dystonic Homosexuality do not appear in the DSM-IV,
however, a classification of “sexual disorder not otherwise specified” exists and could potentially
be used as a classification for an appropriately distressed homosexual (American PsychiatricAssociation, 2000). The draft of the DSM-V does not contain any mention of any disorder associated with same-sex desires. The Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders category has beenconverted to Gender Dysphoria, and refers only to individuals in distress over a perceivedmismatch between their sex and their expressed gender. This change comes in a general push to
reduce the severity of disorders classified as “Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders”, including
paraphilias (American Psychiatric Association, 2011). While the APA trustees removed the
official classification of “homosexuality” in 1973, there have been numerous debates, revisions
and reconsiderations of all aspects of the diagnostic criteria relating to same-sex desire and behavior. The evolution of th
e APA’s policy regarding homosexuality as a mental disorder has
been chaotic. As of the 7
th
printing of the DSM-II, a patient simply having same-sex desire wasno longer considered to be a mental disorder; however, having distress over the sexualorientation was still a valid diagnosis. For the DSM-
III the term “homosexuality” returned in the
form of ego-dystonic homosexuality (Bayer & Spitzer, 1982), although still requiring symptomsother than same-sex desire for a diagnosis (American Psychiatric Association, 1980). Neither the DSM-IV-TR (American Psychiatric Association, 2000) nor the draft of the DSM-V use the
term “homosexual” to describe any
mental disorder (American Psychiatric Association, 2011).

Research

Forget it. Deleted post.

I feel like that guy in the video who's arguing with an ibex.

a reply to: Cuervo

OK - if that makes you comfortable you can have it.


prepared4truth is having similar birth pains with Annee.


You win!

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: Cuervo

OK - if that makes you comfortable you can have it.


prepared4truth is having similar birth pains with Annee.


You win!

Hah hah! I think we both gave up on one another at the same time. I deleted my last post just as you made that response.

Cheers for synchronicity, at least.

a reply to: Cuervo

Oh my god! I looked that up and oh my lord!!! I laughed so hard.



Oh my word I'm crying right now

a reply to: prepared4truth

Here's a paper by Curtis Kularski 2011 - - - who is who your source linked to. What he's actually talking about is the changes from that old paper of 1973 that you posted.

Discrimination and Social Exclusion of Homosexuals
For the history of modern society various groups have been targeted as victims of discrimination, whether because of the color of their skin, their religious heritage or their sexual orientation. Individuals do not generally respond favorably to people that they perceive as being different from themselves. Homosexuality should not be treated as a deviant condition in society, and homosexuals should instead be granted the same rights that are afforded to heterosexuals. Groups that classify homosexuals as deviants argue that homosexuality is immoral, unnatural and a threat to traditional masculinity. As a result of the perceived threat and difference between the majority group, the heterosexuals, and the minority group, the homosexuals, homosexuals have been placed into the category of being a sub-culture and in some areas, a counterculture. The belief of homosexuality as deviant is not only present in society, but it is reinforced by popular culture references.

papers.cmkularski.net...

a reply to: prepared4truth

Poor you.

And I grew up in the 50s - - prior to Women's Rights and prior to the Disability Act, with a divorced single physically disabled mom. Divorced because her husband, my father, ran off with another woman while she lay paralyzed in the hospital with 3 kids under age 7.

If you think because she was physically disabled, she got a pass, think again. Prejudice applies to anything that's different or makes people feel uncomfortable.

Yes, we were refused service at restaurants because it would make the other customers uncomfortable. Yes, my mom was kicked out of stores because of lame excuses like - - insurance risk. Etc Etc.

So, please spare me the hardship stories.

a reply to: Annee

I will spare you stories not only because i dislike going there, but also because this is not a pissing match of who's struggle out ranks other struggles.

What I was addressing was the fact that social pressure, not scientific study, is what caused the removal of homosexuality from the DSM.

originally posted by: prepared4truth

What I was addressing was the fact that social pressure, not scientific study, is what caused the removal of homosexuality from the DSM.

No, that is what you want to believe.

a reply to: Annee

Okay so now it is my turn to ask for your source. Show me the scientific studies which led to the removal of homosexuality from the DSM.

originally posted by: prepared4truth
a reply to: Annee

Okay so now it is my turn to ask for your source. Show me the scientific studies which led to the removal of homosexuality from the DSM.

You are trying to prove a point with data from 42 years ago.

The change was several things coming together. Empirical data, changing social norms, and political activism.

Today brain scan studies show positive proof of brain differences.

originally posted by: prepared4truth
a reply to: Annee

Okay so now it is my turn to ask for your source. Show me the scientific studies which led to the removal of homosexuality from the DSM.

The www.apa.org....

In 1952, when the American Psychiatric Association published its first Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, homosexuality was included as a disorder. Almost immediately, however, that classification began to be subjected to critical scrutiny in research funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. That study and subsequent research consistently failed to produce any empirical or scientific basis for regarding homosexuality as a disorder or abnormality, rather than a normal and healthy sexual orientation. As results from such research accumulated, professionals in medicine, mental health, and the behavioral and social sciences reached the conclusion that it was inaccurate to classify homosexuality as a mental disorder and that the DSM classification reflected untested assumptions based on once-prevalent social norms and clinical impressions from unrepresentative samples comprising patients seeking therapy and individuals whose conduct brought them into the criminal justice system.

I've been staying out of this conversation because the thread isn't about homosexuality. But, to say that it was removed solely because of social pressure isn't correct. They removed it and then put it up to a vote later on with the entire board. They decided against it again.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: prepared4truth
a reply to: Annee

Okay so now it is my turn to ask for your source. Show me the scientific studies which led to the removal of homosexuality from the DSM.

You are trying to prove a point with data from 42 years ago.

The change was several things coming together. Empirical data, changing social norms, and political activism.

Today brain scan studies show positive proof of brain differences.

1. I believe that 42 years, in the timeline of humanity is miniscule. So don't tell me how old the "data" is. Some of the most irrefutable facts of human society are older than our modern science can even trace. I would rather prove a point with a 100,000 year old set of data than with a 42 year old mindset.

2. I'm glad that you agree that changing social norms and political activism are what caused that term to be removed. I was beginning to think you actually had a good source for your ignorance.

originally posted by: prepared4truth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: prepared4truth
a reply to: Annee

Okay so now it is my turn to ask for your source. Show me the scientific studies which led to the removal of homosexuality from the DSM.

You are trying to prove a point with data from 42 years ago.

The change was several things coming together. Empirical data, changing social norms, and political activism.

Today brain scan studies show positive proof of brain differences.

1. I believe that 42 years, in the timeline of humanity is miniscule. So don't tell me how old the "data" is. Some of the most irrefutable facts of human society are older than our modern science can even trace. I would rather prove a point with a 100,000 year old set of data than with a 42 year old mindset.

2. I'm glad that you agree that changing social norms and political activism are what caused that term to be removed. I was beginning to think you actually had a good source for your ignorance.

We're talking science. At least I am.

Not human society.

You are choosing to focus on the non-science aspect - - because its all you've got for the position you're choosing to take.

originally posted by: Cuervo

the DSM classification reflected untested assumptions based on once-prevalent social norms and clinical impressions from unrepresentative samples comprising patients seeking therapy and individuals whose conduct brought them into the criminal justice system.

Science. There was already some science to back this prevalent "social norm" of heterosexuality, one which almost every creature known to man has thrived practicing.

BTW I still have not been shown the studies that led to its removal.