Serious Question: Why are so Many People Afraid/Unaccepting of Transgender People?

originally posted by: Firefly_
a reply to: infolurker

I agree there needs to be a third option regarding toilet/changing facilities.

Perverts are everywhere. They are predators, they will find every last little place to stalk their prey. They are teachers, they are religious leaders, they are politicians, they are spouses, they are family members, they are neighbours, they are everyone and everything. If you go down the road of limiting the rights of TG people in order to protect people from perverts, then you are on a very slippery slope. Either you apply the same restrictions across the board in all walks of life, or you further stigmatise TG's.

Again, the wants of the few outweigh the safety needs of the many?

See, if some shady guy goes into the womens bathroom in most places today, people will notice, report, and Challenge on why.

You make it where you cannot challenge anyone and you have given them a free access pass period.

There is no physical need for a transgender anatomical male to utilize the womens facilities. It is an emotional desire.

You do not put the greater whole of women and little girls in Physical Risk to accommodate an emotional desire.

If this goes through, yes, it will really be a true war on Women and women will push back and push back hard.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Boadicea
It could explain much about transgenders though.

I do believe in reincarnation and memory cells.

However, I support science in the physical/chemical make up of the human body.

Creating a human being is extremely complicated. As I say: "You throw all the ingredients into the Soup Pot and stir", you're gonna get ALL variations. We are not clones.

Very very true. I don't look at it as either/or, but a combination thereof. In my little paradigm, it all works together. If I cannot reconcile the physical with the mental with the emotional AND with the spiritual, then the hypothesis is faulty. The question for me is how do all these work together. If we accept reincarnation as fact, and accept that each of us have (probably) lived lives as both male and female, then why would one person have karmic memories overriding present experience but not another? What is the difference? Is it physical? Why did Ketsuko have a completely different experience during pregnancy than I did? Just different genes that created different physical outcomes? Is it just mental? Did Ketsuko and I have different mental images and expectations of pregnancy which manifested physically?

As you said, it's a melting pot and the end result depends on many factors which all must be considered to understand.

Transgenders (and all sexuality) do not need to be justified by an excuse.

Could be your right about thata reply to: Krazysh0t

a reply to: ketsuko

You can save that little girl in the bathroom. But the predators will just adopt a new strategy. Perhaps become a nurse and abuse hospital patients. My point is there are monsters everywhere, and sure we must stop them. But not at the expense of the innocent, as then they win.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

War on Women.. LOL

I'm a feminist who supports Equality.

It would be very hypocritical of me to support Women's Equality and not Trans Equality.

I've encountered women in the restroom that make me feel uncomfortable. The way restrooms are designed is scary in itself. They're like caves set apart from the rest of the world.

I vote for redesign where individual stalls are along a wall clearly visible to everyone. Washrooms and mirrors can be separate in an open area.

And showers and locker rooms?

And preventing men pretending or claiming to be transgender to get unchallenged access to womens bathrooms and locker rooms?

Cmon, have some common sense here.

Molestations happen everywhere.

No, I am not going to live my life in fear of the off chance a perverted man will go to that much trouble.

Shall we ban Lesbians from women's locker rooms too?

Why, they are women?

No, they are deviant lecherous Lesbians out to get your young daughter.

Are you saying they don't exist? Can you explain why our basketball coach in high school used to watch us shower all the time ...

She was kind of like the art teacher who used to leer down the front of our shirts in junior high. He was a creep too.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Exactly. Maybe when we as humans have become more ok with the naked body, we would be able to do away with the neutral bathroom, but not with the way things are currently. And there are just too many different genders for a business to realistically cater to each one.

I really have no Idea what your talking about at this point and Im not angry. There has only been one response that actually triggered that emotion. a reply to: ketsuko

For those interested in facts:

gender identity disorder

Gender identity disorder (GID) or gender dysphoria is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe people who experience significant dysphoria (discontent) with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones.[1]

Estimates of the prevalence of gender identity disorder range from a lower bound of 1:2000 (or about 0.05%) in the Netherlands and Belgium[2] to 0.5% in Massachusetts[3] to 1.2% in New Zealand.[4] These numbers are based on those who identify as transgender. It is estimated that about 0.005% to 0.014% of natal males and 0.002% to 0.003% of natal females would be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, based on current diagnostic criteria.[5] Research indicates people who transition in adulthood are up to three times more likely to be male assigned at birth, but that among people transitioning in childhood the sex ratio is close to 1:1.[6]

Gender identity disorder is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM[7] and DSM-5 (called gender dysphoria).[8] Many transgender people and researchers support declassification of GID because they say the diagnosis pathologizes gender variance, reinforces the binary model of gender,[9] and can result in stigmatization of transgender individuals.[8] The official classification of gender dysphoria as a disorder in the DSM-5 may help resolve some of these issues, because the term gender dysphoria applies only to the discontent experienced by some persons resulting from gender identity issues.[8]

The current medical approach to treatment for persons diagnosed with gender identity disorder is to support the individual in physically modifying the body to better match the psychological gender identity.[10] This approach is based on the concept that their experience is based in a medical problem correctable by various forms of medical intervention.[10][11]

Biological causes[edit]
Genetic variation, hormones, and differences in brain functioning and brain structures provide evidence for the biological etiology of the symptoms associated with GID. Twin studies indicate that GID is 62% heritable, evidencing the genetic influence or prenatal development as its origin.[23] In male-to-female transsexuals, GID is associated with variations in an individual's genes that make the individual less sensitive to androgens.[1] Zhou et al. (1995) found that in one area of the brain, male-to-female transsexuals have a typically female structure, and female-to-male transsexuals have a typically male structure.[24] Zhou et al. (1995) had a sample size of only six male-to-female transgender individuals. There may, for example, be some non-transgender heterosexual men with some brain structures that would be expected in a female, as the sample size in Zhou et al. (1995) is too small to exclude such possibilities. In addition, some aspects of trans women's hypothalamus functioning resemble that typical of cisgender women.[25]

The presence of typically female patterns of white matter and neuron patterns has also been observed in the brains of male-to-female transsexuals[26][27] and overall longer instances of the androgen receptor gene.[28] (Also see Causes of transsexualism.) However, these markers do not identify every individual who undergoes transition.[29]

Similar brain structure differences have, however, been noted between gay and heterosexual men, and between lesbian and heterosexual women.[30][31] More recent studies have found that circumstance and repeated activities such as meditation modify brain structures in a process called brain plasticity or neuroplasticity. In May 2014, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reported that for fathers, parenting "rewires the male brain".[32]

Diagnosis
The American Psychiatric Association permits a diagnosis of gender dysphoria if the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (5th Edition), or DSM-5, are met. The DSM-5 moved this diagnosis out of the sexual disorders category and into a category of its own.[33] The DSM-5 states that at least two of the criteria for gender dysphoria must be experienced for at least six months' duration in adolescents or adults for diagnosis.[34] The diagnosis was renamed from "Gender Identity Disorder" to "Gender Dysphoria", after criticisms that the former term was stigmatizing.[35] Subtyping by sexual orientation was deleted. The diagnosis for children was separated from that for adults. The creation of a specific diagnosis for children reflects the lesser ability of children to have insight into what they are experiencing, or ability to express it in the event that they have insight.[36]

The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) list three diagnostic criteria for "transsexualism" (F64.0):[10] Uncertainty about gender identity which causes anxiety or stress is diagnosed as sexual maturation disorder, according to the ICD-10.[37]

Your right you win, Ill just continue to do what I do and if your little lady friend is even able to spot me out and that leads to her running to you and you come at me all fire and brimstone your going find out quickly what kind negative end result is begotten from that small minded and irrational phobia, good day.a reply to: infolurker

a reply to: infolurker

Where did I ever say that? If a shady guy goes into the women's toilets then he most certainly should be challenged. It would be terrible not to. But why should innocent people suffer? Why should all TG people (or anyone for that matter) get labelled as perverts just because a few bad people pretended to be TG, or whatever situation they were in, to gain access to potential victims?

Your way of thinking is what has created the climate of fear we live in, where a man can't even take a selfie with a Darth Vader cutout without being branded a predator, where a man can't even help an injured child without the fear of being called a pedophile. This is extremely damaging, not only to those affected, but to society as a whole.

originally posted by: Firefly_
a reply to: ketsuko

You can save that little girl in the bathroom. But the predators will just adopt a new strategy. Perhaps become a nurse and abuse hospital patients. My point is there are monsters everywhere, and sure we must stop them. But not at the expense of the innocent, as then they win.

How come no one ever applies that argument to gun owners after a mass shooting?

Look. The point is that some things should just be done in private, and you are talking about things that should be done in private and are intensely private being mixed in very uncomfortable way.

The mind in the body might be female, but the body is male. And in the locker room, everyone sees and reacts to the male body ... except for the lucky blind person. A little girl does not need to see a naked male body, no matter how feminine the mind inside it is. And the mother of the little girl shouldn't have to worry that her daughter is going to see a naked, fully grown male body in the locker room of the family YMCA.

It isn't about who is inside that body. It's about what you are and aren't prepared for your child to see and wanting to explain to your child at various staged of their life.

Why should I have to avoid taking my daughter to the YMCA or similar places because I can't count on a "safe" environment? It has nothing to do with being prudish or intolerant and everything to do with thinking a 6 or 7 year old girl shouldn't have to worry about what a fully grown naked man looks like.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Exactly. Maybe when we as humans have become more ok with the naked body, we would be able to do away with the neutral bathroom, but not with the way things are currently. And there are just too many different genders for a business to realistically cater to each one.

I think we need to work on the small things first, like maybe it being NOT a crime for a woman to walk around topless when men can.

Your being presumptuous because I really don't nor do I really care to, to be honest.a reply to: Boadicea

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
Your right you win, Ill just continue to do what I do and if your little lady friend is even able to spot me out and that leads to her running to you and you come at me all fire and brimstone your going find out quickly what kind negative end result is begotten from that small minded and irrational phobia, good day.a reply to: infolurker

So he makes a rational counterpoint and you respond with veiled threats of violence? Predators ARE a problem. They DO take advantage of every situation they can. While I agree it's not exactly fair to transgenders to have to live with that reality, it's still a reality. Tell me, are you against gender neutral restrooms?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Exactly. Maybe when we as humans have become more ok with the naked body, we would be able to do away with the neutral bathroom, but not with the way things are currently. And there are just too many different genders for a business to realistically cater to each one.

I think we need to work on the small things first, like maybe it being NOT a crime for a woman to walk around topless when men can.

Some things to ponder before we start down that route:

1.) Proceed to the People of Walmart site.

2.) Proceed to imagine them all walking around naked.

3.) Vomit

4.) Understand they would be the first to embrace not having to wear clothing anymore in your newly free society.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That would certainly be a good start. The more common these things are to the human eye, the less taboo they seem. Can you think of anyone who has gotten aroused from looking at a woman's ankle in this day and age? Of course not (well maybe in a Muslim country), we as a society have gotten used to see women's ankles so they don't appear nearly as sexual as they used to.

Though this is kind of off topic, but it would make a GREAT discussion for a new thread.

Good point so lets just ban any position or occupation that may be an ideal place for a sexual predator. We have to protect the little women and children from the armies of pervs out there.a reply to: Firefly_

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Exactly. Maybe when we as humans have become more ok with the naked body, we would be able to do away with the neutral bathroom, but not with the way things are currently. And there are just too many different genders for a business to realistically cater to each one.

I think we need to work on the small things first, like maybe it being NOT a crime for a woman to walk around topless when men can.

Some things to ponder before we start down that route:

1.) Proceed to the People of Walmart site.

2.) Proceed to imagine them all walking around naked.

3.) Vomit

4.) Understand they would be the first to embrace not having to wear clothing anymore in your newly free society.

Yeah some people are gross. So what? It's not a crime to be gross.

And I'm talking about toplessness, not full on nudity. Baby steps, yo. Baby steps.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Exactly. Maybe when we as humans have become more ok with the naked body, we would be able to do away with the neutral bathroom, but not with the way things are currently. And there are just too many different genders for a business to realistically cater to each one.

I think we need to work on the small things first, like maybe it being NOT a crime for a woman to walk around topless when men can.

Some things to ponder before we start down that route:

1.) Proceed to the People of Walmart site.

2.) Proceed to imagine them all walking around naked.

3.) Vomit

4.) Understand they would be the first to embrace not having to wear clothing anymore in your newly free society.

Keep in mind that it isn't illegal for men to walk around without a shirt on, but you don't see tons of overweight and nasty looking men walking around without a shirt on. For one, most businesses won't serve you without one for sanitary reasons. So yes, we may be inundated with these "free spirits" to the point of nausea, but it's no worse than looking at some disgusting male sack of lard.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Exactly. Maybe when we as humans have become more ok with the naked body, we would be able to do away with the neutral bathroom, but not with the way things are currently. And there are just too many different genders for a business to realistically cater to each one.

I think we need to work on the small things first, like maybe it being NOT a crime for a woman to walk around topless when men can.

Some things to ponder before we start down that route:

1.) Proceed to the People of Walmart site.

2.) Proceed to imagine them all walking around naked.

3.) Vomit

4.) Understand they would be the first to embrace not having to wear clothing anymore in your newly free society.

I donno I think if everyone walked around nude normally then people would be much more inclined to keep at least a somewhat decent figure.