Serious Question: Why are so Many People Afraid/Unaccepting of Transgender People?

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
Since I clearly don't understand please enlighten me what Im so angry about.a reply to: ketsuko

You said this:

It doesn't happen suddenly, why won't you people GET THAT. Its a lifelong struggle that most realize well before hitting their teen years.

When I said:

That it doesn't work to ask us to imagine suddenly waking up in the wrong body because the way transgenders describe it they were never in harmony with their body. And you are asking us to go from a situation where we were to one where we were not in that imagining scenario.

So basically you yelled at me for more or less acknowledging what you are angry for me not getting when I get it.

Now, instead of admitting you didn't catch my point, you're going to dig your hole deeper by calling me smug and condescending after pointing out that we all miss out on stuff because people take advantage or do stupid things and ruin life for the rest of us. I wasn't being smug or condescending at all. I was reminding you of a sad fact of life for everyone.

originally posted by: Annee

Neither do I. I'm 5'8", but what I see is a tiny Jewish lady and I have a great aversion to Nazi Germany. Reincarnation? Memory cells?

I've wondered that too! I don't necessarily believe that reincarnation is a fact... but I don't necessarily believe it's not either. I obviously don't know. It could explain much about transgenders though. In that case, they would have the very real memory of actually being the opposite gender. Perhaps they had lived many lives as the opposite gender, or perhaps their most recent lives were the opposite gender, or perhaps they enjoyed their lives more as the opposite gender... I could see many ways that previous lives could/would affect the present life.

But, I don't see what that has to do with how a Trans brain shows similarities to gender opposite from the physical.

I was just reading about that -- trying to keep up with other conversations between my own responses. I'll have to look at it further, but my initial thoughts are regarding hormonal imbalances that could create physiological changes in the brain, and elsewhere.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

War on Women.. LOL

I'm a feminist who supports Equality.

It would be very hypocritical of me to support Women's Equality and not Trans Equality.

I've encountered women in the restroom that make me feel uncomfortable. The way restrooms are designed is scary in itself. They're like caves set apart from the rest of the world.

I vote for redesign where individual stalls are along a wall clearly visible to everyone. Washrooms and mirrors can be separate in an open area.

And showers and locker rooms?

And preventing men pretending or claiming to be transgender to get unchallenged access to womens bathrooms and locker rooms?

Cmon, have some common sense here.

Molestations happen everywhere.

No, I am not going to live my life in fear of the off chance a perverted man will go to that much trouble.

Shall we ban Lesbians from women's locker rooms too?

I fully support the rights and feelings of the transgender community.

That being said, society doesn't change over night. Much of the world still doesn't allow same sex couples to marry. Hell, it's still a capital offense punishable by death in many countries. I understand the desire to ride the wave of LGBT acceptance and demand change of society in way that would allow transgender people to live happy, fulfilling lives, but it won't come easily. People still don't understand or accept that you can be sexually and romantically attracted to people of the same sex. How can you reasonably expect people to understand and accept that some people feel they were born the wrong gender?

On top of that, there are practical problems to solve first. People here brought up the problem of bathrooms, showers, lockers, etc. Any man could just claim he's transgender and get a free peep show or whatever perverse pleasure he wants by sharing a bathroom with ladies. It's happened before. The only reasonable solution I see in the near future is co-ed bathrooms becoming common in public spaces. That way there's no discrimination. It's a men/women/trans/genderqueer/whatever bathroom to be used at anyone's discretion.

There seems to be a lot hostility in this thread, and I think we would all be better served to take a deep breath, count to ten, and come back with a clear head.

originally posted by: Boadicea
It could explain much about transgenders though.

I do believe in reincarnation and memory cells.

However, I support science in the physical/chemical make up of the human body.

Creating a human being is extremely complicated. As I say: "You throw all the ingredients into the Soup Pot and stir", you're gonna get ALL variations. We are not clones.

Transgenders (and all sexuality) do not need to be justified by an excuse.

a reply to: ketsuko

Sure I agree, you can train a brain. This does not mean it is the right way though. Brain altering has been misused and abused forever. Even the fact we are having this very discussion is a result of it, due to the prejudices and stigmas placed upon TG's and anyone who doesn't neatly fit into a society accepted box. Religion (Christianity) is a main reason.

Surely, our body is just a shell, and who we are inside is what matters. Why is it that people in this situation must change who they are inside to match a superficial shell? If its an uncomfortable shell, then altering the shell to be more comfortable in this world surely is more beneficial than forcing someone to live a lie?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

War on Women.. LOL

I'm a feminist who supports Equality.

It would be very hypocritical of me to support Women's Equality and not Trans Equality.

I've encountered women in the restroom that make me feel uncomfortable. The way restrooms are designed is scary in itself. They're like caves set apart from the rest of the world.

I vote for redesign where individual stalls are along a wall clearly visible to everyone. Washrooms and mirrors can be separate in an open area.

And showers and locker rooms?

And preventing men pretending or claiming to be transgender to get unchallenged access to womens bathrooms and locker rooms?

Cmon, have some common sense here.

Molestations happen everywhere.

No, I am not going to live my life in fear of the off chance a perverted man will go to that much trouble.

Shall we ban Lesbians from women's locker rooms too?

Why, they are women?

Again, What prevents any man from claiming to be transgender in accessing womens locker rooms and bathrooms unchallenged because to even challenge it is discrimination!!!


You are placing your wants and safety over that of a country full of women and little girls, many of which have a lesser chance of defending themselves than you do, and it is wrong.

You know it is wrong and will do it anyway. There are a hell of allot more perverts and predators than transgenders in the nation and your wants are going to make their hobbies much easier because you cannot do anything about them or legally remove them without the scream of discrimination.

The wants of the few outweigh the safety needs of the many?

Really?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

See to me, hormones are simply a source of pain, but then again, my body is just a source of pain no matter what its gender happens to be.

I hated being pregnant and found the entire experience to be miserable even though the results were worth it.

Exactly! For me, pregnancy hormones were wonderful... for you, not so much. Assuming they were the same hormones, why did they affect your and me differently? We're both women, we're both pregnant, so there's obviously more to it than simply gender. We're still different.

The problem I have with this idea that you suddenly wake up in the wrong body is that for that to happen, you once knew what it was like to be in the right one. From what we are told of transgenders, they were never in harmony with their bodies, so they never knew what the proper body felt like. There is actually no way for us to imagine that.

Which brings us back to square one. How can anyone know what they do not know? Is it hormones creating a deluded sense of self? Is it how one is raised and the emphasis placed on gender? Is it brain synapses misfiring? All of the above? Something else entirely?

And does it really matter in the final analysis? When I meet and interact with others, I'm going to treat everyone with the same level of respect and deference regardless of what they're wearing, unless and until their words/deeds lead me to do otherwise. If they're not hurting anyone, what do I care? What more can one do? If we can't get along, it won't be because of clothes or anything else so superficial.

I look at it this way:

Most of us use the restroom on our own, by ourselves, in our own homes. Toileting is a private matter for just about everyone I know.

So why is anyone surprised that we get upset with having to share the restroom with just anyone who happens to want to open the door and walk on in?

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
What the flying eff are you talking about, I said I didn't like the stolen valor part of the comment.a reply to: Boadicea

Yup. That you did.

But please don't play dumb. You're a smart little princess. You know exactly what I said and meant.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I like the idea of a gender neutral bathroom as well. Make it smaller and put a lock on the door so anyone who uses it can have privacy, meanwhile keep the other bathrooms the same and everyone can use the bathroom of their biological gender of use the gender neutral one. I understand it isn't totally fair for the trans people, but the pervert angle really does need to be considered and we can't just make it easier for perverts to assault women to appease a certain minority.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I look at it this way:

Most of us use the restroom on our own, by ourselves, in our own homes. Toileting is a private matter for just about everyone I know.

So why is anyone surprised that we get upset with having to share the restroom with just anyone who happens to want to open the door and walk on in?

See, it is way beyond restrooms now. It is now Womens locker rooms, dressing areas, and shower facilities.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I like the idea of a gender neutral bathroom as well. Make it smaller and put a lock on the door so anyone who uses it can have privacy, meanwhile keep the other bathrooms the same and everyone can use the bathroom of their biological gender of use the gender neutral one. I understand it isn't totally fair for the trans people, but the pervert angle really does need to be considered and we can't just make it easier for perverts to assault women to appease a certain minority.

There are an increasing number of places who actually do have these. They are called "Family" restrooms, but that's basically what they are. Our Targets have one. They are perfect for this purpose, and we've been using it with our young child who is too young to take himself to the potty.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yea I've seen them before. In fact, I'm pretty sure I saw them in a Target. I think Target has been doing this for a while now. My local mall has one too, but like you said they were built to help families take their really young children into the bathroom without having to worry about the kid going into the wrong gendered bathroom. Though I have no problem repurposing them to just be gender neutral bathrooms.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I like the idea of a gender neutral bathroom as well. Make it smaller and put a lock on the door so anyone who uses it can have privacy, meanwhile keep the other bathrooms the same and everyone can use the bathroom of their biological gender of use the gender neutral one. I understand it isn't totally fair for the trans people, but the pervert angle really does need to be considered and we can't just make it easier for perverts to assault women to appease a certain minority.

Agree,

And that doesn't happen often... But bathrooms are minor compared to locker rooms, dressing rooms, and showers in my opinion.

a reply to: infolurker

I agree there needs to be a third option regarding toilet/changing facilities.

Perverts are everywhere. They are predators, they will find every last little place to stalk their prey. They are teachers, they are religious leaders, they are politicians, they are spouses, they are family members, they are neighbours, they are everyone and everything. If you go down the road of limiting the rights of TG people in order to protect people from perverts, then you are on a very slippery slope. Either you apply the same restrictions across the board in all walks of life, or you further stigmatise TG's.

a reply to: infolurker

In a perfect world, one that hasn't overly sexualized various body parts on the human anatomy, this wouldn't be an issue, but we don't live in a perfect world. I want to be as accommodating as possible to these people. I don't fear them or resent them, but I also don't want to cause undo hardship to groups of people while catering to their wants as well. It seems like a gender neutral bathroom/locker room/you get the point would be a good compromise.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I like the idea of a gender neutral bathroom as well. Make it smaller and put a lock on the door so anyone who uses it can have privacy, meanwhile keep the other bathrooms the same and everyone can use the bathroom of their biological gender of use the gender neutral one. I understand it isn't totally fair for the trans people, but the pervert angle really does need to be considered and we can't just make it easier for perverts to assault women to appease a certain minority.

The solution is really quite simple, thinking on it. Three facilities to use. Male/Female/Neutral. This goes for all "facilities" including locker rooms, showers, etc. You already see a lot of "family" restrooms at popular restaurants and newer buildings, this is simply the next step forward. For those with "family" labelled restrooms already, it's as easy as renaming it "Neutral" restrooms.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: infolurker

War on Women.. LOL

I'm a feminist who supports Equality.

It would be very hypocritical of me to support Women's Equality and not Trans Equality.

I've encountered women in the restroom that make me feel uncomfortable. The way restrooms are designed is scary in itself. They're like caves set apart from the rest of the world.

I vote for redesign where individual stalls are along a wall clearly visible to everyone. Washrooms and mirrors can be separate in an open area.

And showers and locker rooms?

And preventing men pretending or claiming to be transgender to get unchallenged access to womens bathrooms and locker rooms?

Cmon, have some common sense here.

Molestations happen everywhere.

No, I am not going to live my life in fear of the off chance a perverted man will go to that much trouble.

Shall we ban Lesbians from women's locker rooms too?

Why, they are women?

No, they are deviant lecherous Lesbians out to get your young daughter.

originally posted by: Firefly_
a reply to: infolurker

I agree there needs to be a third option regarding toilet/changing facilities.

Perverts are everywhere. They are predators, they will find every last little place to stalk their prey. They are teachers, they are religious leaders, they are politicians, they are spouses, they are family members, they are neighbours, they are everyone and everything. If you go down the road of limiting the rights of TG people in order to protect people from perverts, then you are on a very slippery slope. Either you apply the same restrictions across the board in all walks of life, or you further stigmatise TG's.

It is not uncommon in society to restrict the freedoms and rights of people for the common good. It happens all the time.

There is this phrase that gets bandied about ... If we can save just one child ...

You know when it comes out that the state is about to take some other choice away from you, and it happens all the time. So, if we can save just one little girl from being molested in a public bathroom ...