U.S. Special Operations forces kill ISIS commander Abu Sayyaf in Syria raid

a reply to: mindseye1609

They are essentially the same thing. Seal Team Six is what DEVGRU used to be, the term they currently use now is "Special Mission Unit".

Nice to see Delta get some recognition. Always a healthy competition between the two in the SOF community. Usually just comes down to the SOCOM Commander's preference on what unit he wants to use. With the last few Commanders having been Seals I think DEVGRU has usually gotten the nod for the high profile ops.

www.cfr.org...
Abu Sayyaf Group (Philippines, Islamist separatists)

I don't know what to think of this whole story, his name is the name of a terrorist group in the Phillipines. Media spun info or disinfo?

a reply to: mindseye1609

I think so ,they changed it from "Redcell" after the Navy burned Marcinko.

a reply to: rockofellah

I thought at first with the V22s and the emphasis on H2H it was Marine Raiders.
I AM curious why it spacifically was mentioned/used instead of shooting unless it's a stealth issue.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Couldn't really comment on their tactics and capabilities, but I do know that the Air Force have their own version of the Osprey for special operations-the CV-22. I would put my money on those Ospreys used for the op being Air Force assets, since they are a part of SOCOM as well.

It's a pity the SAS don't take out Anjem Houdary.

Seems a bit 'they' would chose special forces to lift or kill a person nobody seems to know about.

It's not like America are bothered about collateral damage (his slave) so why not just drop a bomb on him? Seems a big risk to put boots on ground? Unless Intel was so good there was no risk, but hearing of so much gunfire it doesn't seem so.

Something strange played out here.

I have noticed in this thread there is some confusion about this guys name and a Philippine terrorist group of the same name.

Abu Sayyaf is probably not this guys real name but a alias, in many terrorist training camps new members adopt a new name, a nick name if you like. Traditionally "Abu" is often used in what is called Kunya, this is often used to denote the head of a family or the eldest son. So we get Father off and then Sayyaf which usually means one who uses the sword or warrior. The name "Abu Sayyaf" has been translated into a number of different ways such as "Father of the sword", "Son of the Sword" and "Bearer of the Sword" being the most common used.

My interpretation of this guys name therefore would be that it is a alias he chose to indicate he comes from and his head of a family of strong warriors.

It is also not uncommon not to find out much about these guys through a quick Google search, just because a quite internet search does not through up a name doesn't mean anything. This is probably one of many aliases this guy had its possible he may have been discussed in the media under another name or indeed he may have never been discussed atoll. We have to remember that with in the CIA there are people who's job it is to track down these guys specifically, they have access to much more than just Google.

a reply to: rockofellah

They are essentially the same thing. Seal Team Six is what DEVGRU used to be, the term they currently use now is "Special Mission Unit".

Actually DEVGRU is the correct name to use, DEVGRU along with 1st-SFOD-D (Delta) and ISA are all called "Special Mission Unit's" they are the tier one of American Special Forces unlike the Green Berets or SEALs who are classed as "tier two". These SMU's are controlled by JSOC which is a part of USSOCOM. JSOC is a very powerful and secretive unit of the American military there may be other SMU's but their identity is not public and JSOC can draw on other assets in USSOCOM and works very closely with the CIA's SAD group.

But technically you are wrong to say DEVGRU is now called the "Special mission unit" because "Special Mission Unit" actually refers the the name given to all of the tier one assets, by putting them all in the one basket you would be calling Delta guys Seals and vice versa.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: mindseye1609

I think so ,they changed it from "Redcell" after the Navy burned Marcinko.

No, REDCELL is something different entirely from DEVGRU although its founder was the same founder as Team Six.

The best way to think of REDCELL really is as a top secret US Military think tank. They comprise of elite soldiers drawn from various specialities (mostly team six) whose role is to test the security of sensitive US government assets. For example they once tested out the security of the president by breaking through the secret service and parking a car with a fake bomb next to Air Force one thus pointing out flaws in the security. They're full exploits remain classified all we really have to go on is what Markinko has said publicly who ended up in jail over something to do with Red Cells. Officially it was because he was stealing funds but rumours are rife that it was because the Americans got very worried about how easy it was for his team to expose weaknesses.

Red Cell is still may be active, last time i heard of it being used was after 9/11 to brain storm ideas.

However Redcell is not a SMU nor is it a combat group, its just a small team of guys who spend their days breaking into American military bases and the like to highlight flaws in the security.

Good job. Glad they are all back safe and sound.
Hats of to the men and women of the US Special Forces. Job well done.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

....I'm aware of that. My question had to do with how they make the decision to send which group out.

originally posted by: ArnoldNonymous
a reply to: cavtrooper7

....I'm aware of that. My question had to do with how they make the decision to send which group out.

A lot of the time it comes down to politics, if JSOC has a leader who is a former SEAL, he is going to favour DEVGRU out of loyalty to his old buddies for example Mcraven and Neptune Spear. Then it also comes down to operational capabilities both DEVGRU and DELTA are geared up for Counter-terrorism however if you have a situation like the Mersk Alabama that is a clear cut DEVGRU job so that is also going to be a factor. I am pretty sure that geographical locations also plays a part in it, who is closest, who has recently been operational in that theatre.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I had a friend who was a Ranger who did black ops in Nicaragua. in the 80s. I wasn't aware anyone but SF did small team work. Do Rangers aslo perform the same tasking?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I had a friend who was a Ranger who did black ops in Nicaragua. in the 80s. I wasn't aware anyone but SF did small team work. Do Rangers aslo perform the same tasking?

Interesting question.

The Rangers do actually fall under the command of USSOCOM but not JSOC. Rangers would be considered a "tier two" special forces asset rather than a tier one special missions unit like Delta. However when required JSOC do use assets like the Rangers and SEALs for supporting roles for example during the hostage rescue of Jessica Lynch they provided support for DELTA force along with Green Berets and were part of Task Force 121.

As far as "Black ops" go though I am not so sure about how it was during the 1980s but today any kind of black op, such as this for example would almost always fall to a SMU like Delta or DEVGRU taking the lead role, a unit like the Rangers would probably make up part of a Quick Reaction Force (QRF). There is however a group that is rumoured to exist with in the 75th Rangers called the "Regimental Reconnaissance Company" who it is said may be directly working under JSOC. This team does not take part in direct action operations but does conduct reconnaissance, I have never heard of Rangers working in the region during the 1980's but if they were then i would bet it would have been RRC. So it is entirly possible that your friend was a Ranger working with RRC. As such I can see how its possible that some Rangers may be involved in what you might want to call a "black op" but I don't think they would be undertaking the same tasking as far as covert direct action or high risk counter terrorism operations as DEVGRU or Delta would.

True "Black ops", I believe must mostly fall to the CIA's SAD operatives working alongside JSOC when required.

Hope that answers your question, sorry if I am a bit off but i don't have time to go away and do a load of fact checking right now.

a reply to: crazyewok
Nah, he was in charge for the same reason obama is "in charge". He was really good at giving speeches.

Is it common for us to abduct peoples' spouses? That part just sounds really strange to me.....

originally posted by: TKDRL
Is it common for us to abduct peoples' spouses? That part just sounds really strange to me.....

If that spouse is a valued target then yes.
Being a spouse doesn't eliminate that possibility.

a reply to: opethPA
I don't know. A woman having any kind of power rank in a "muslim" group seems highly unlikely to me I guess. I would doubt they would even discuss anything of importance in front of women. I could be wrong.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: opethPA
I don't know. A woman having any kind of power rank in a "muslim" group seems highly unlikely to me I guess. I would doubt they would even discuss anything of importance in front of women. I could be wrong.

Actually there have been a few in Hamas, there is also the story of the "White widow"

I doubt you would get any in a group like ISIS though.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: opethPA
I don't know. A woman having any kind of power rank in a "muslim" group seems highly unlikely to me I guess. I would doubt they would even discuss anything of importance in front of women. I could be wrong.

It wouldn't be as much about her having rank about her having information.
Perhaps not even operational intelligence on any specific event but rather things like who she saw her husband interact with it.