NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

When I think of Christ and further Gods judgement. This thread becomes pointless. Because this is a judgement call only God can make. But when he does judge this nation?
I don't see him slapping any labels like Christian on it.

a reply to: randyvs

But when he does judge this nation?
I don't see him slapping any labels like Christian on it.

Then you concur that the USA is not a Christian Nation?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: mOjOm

I know. I may start posting "beat a dead horse awards" soon.

The founders have spoken on the issue and they were very clear about it....yet...it just doesn't sink in with them.

The fact that I linked to the history of this stupid idea being traced back to the 1930's and it was completely ignored just says they don't want to learn anything new.

I'm not sure if I find it funny or sad that it is literally a stupid scam from rich businessmen trying to exploit the masses so that they can make more money and then these Christians line up like useful idiots and parrot their crap by the boatload. It's a textbook example of a conspiracy to manipulate the public and the VERY people going on and on about the government coming to enforce martial law and all those other outlandish conspiracy theories are buying right into it.

Is not that America wasn't build as Christian nation, but that was build to avoid religious percussion, as a majority self proclaim Christian nation, America is actually majority Christian, thanks to the constitutional rights of Americans living within the nations borders no other religions will be more prevalent than others.

Is as simple as that.

But as usual is always going to be those that wants to push religious agendas in many ways, we all aware of that, but darn I rather have a majority Christian nation that and Islamic state.

And I don't support any organized religion

a reply to: mOjOm

Oh I agree with you, I am just trying to point out basic stuff people are ignoring, because of bias.

If I had to label America in 2015, it wouldn't be Christian, it would be corporate.
The banks and various corporate industrial complexes have the power now.
The clergy and it's religious institutions in America are getting weaker by the decade, this thread is proof of it.
It's lip service and cultural affiliation by most these days anyways.

a reply to: Gorman91

Actually we have the right to legislate based on it, just not the right to be for or against any one religion. And in early American history, the "for or against any one religion" was pretty clearly limited to just Christianity and her heretics and sects.

no. there is not a single spiritual text that is regularly referred to as a model for current legislative process. and there is legislation in place that prevents spiritual texts from hijacking the process completely.

You do swear on the Bible in court and the President do it on inauguration.
Christian country to me..

originally posted by: VonDutch
You do swear on the Bible in court and the President do it on inauguration.
Christian country to me..

because we have never ever known someone to thump a bible and lie in the same breath. particularly when an office is at stake.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Doesnt matter, it does matter of course, but not in this context.
Seen from where I am, its a Christiant country. Maybe seen from within not.

originally posted by: VonDutch
You do swear on the Bible in court and the President do it on inauguration.
Christian country to me..

Neither of those things are required. As a non-Christian, I could go into court and refuse to swear on the Bible and it would be fine.

Presidents And Other Public Officials Can Take Their Oaths On A Bible, The Bhagavad Gita, Or Even A Lawbook

On March 4, 1825, John Quincy Adams was sworn in as the sixth president of the United States. When Chief Justice John Marshall administered the oath, Adams placed his hand not on a Bible, but on a law book.

Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution deals only with the language the president is to use when sworn in. The passage is surprisingly spare and gives few specifics about the ceremony.

The section states that the president (no other officeholders are mentioned) is required to make the following oath or affirmation: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

In addition, presidents add the words “So help me, God” to the oath. The use of this phrase has become ubiquitous and so familiar to Americans that many people believe it must be required by the Constitution. But, again, it is not.

The language does not appear in the Oath of Office as it is outlined in the Constitution. Tradition has it that George Washington added these words during the nation’s first swearing-in ceremony, and every president since has followed suit.

Interestingly, there is no solid historical evidence that Washington did this. The story could be a legend; it did not surface until the 1850s, long after Washington’s death. Nevertheless, the phrase was at some point grafted onto the Oath of Office and has trickled down to other oaths as well.

a reply to: TzarChasm

And yet we swear on the Bible.

a reply to: Gorman91

You should read the post directly above the one you just posted.

originally posted by: Gorman91
And yet we swear on the Bible.

I have been a witness in several court cases and have never had to swear on a Bible. All I was asked to do was swear that I was going to tell the truth.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You have to refuse to, though. It's option B. Option A, the default option, is to swear on the Bible. Seems Christian to me.

a reply to: Gorman91

No, if it was Christian sponsored then the bible would be the ONLY option available to swear on. That's how state religions work, they force you to honor it during state events.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
That's how state religions work, they force you to honor it during state events.

I would 'honor' it like they did in Airplane! II:

Clerk: Do you swear on the Constitution of the United States to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Witness: Ain't no thing.

[he slaps the clerk's book and the clerk uses his book to slap the witnesses hand as if "giving fives" to each other]

Our country was created by the people, for the people, with a heavy emphasis on protecting the rights of all the people...at least I believe that was the idea behind it. It took time to bring that idea to fullfillment and in some ways were still have fullfilled that dread. I'll agree that most when it was created were christian, but well if someday in the future most of the people were not of the christian faith, would it not be appropriate for our gov't to reflect that at least in some small ways? And wouldn't the christians that would still be in this country still have the protections that are embedded in our constitution as long as that constitution was still standing?
Yes the majority in this country still identify themselves as christian.
But, how many attend church regularly?
How many attend a church that is led by a women minister?
How many attend a church that accept gays marriage and is even willing to perform a gay wedding?
How many identify themselves as Muslims? Hindu? Wiccan? Athiest? Aren't they entitled to share the same rights as everyone else? Don't they have a voice in the gov't also? Aren't they also a part of "the people"? Where in the constitution does is say that the gov't has any right to lift any group of people above another on the basis or race, religion, sex, or any other indentifying quality? I don't believe it does.
Our gov't was not established to protect any of these groups rights to any power above what it has bestowed upon all, although the people's bigotry and ignorance has enabled some groups to be deprived of these rights. We the people are the government, and well the government we have is a reflection of us. And for the most part we seem to have been advancing toward a society that desires to have basic rights extended to all people.
I fail to see where this desire, that originated long before our constitution was written by the way, has any basis in religious beliefs really. I think history kind of shows that more often than not it ran contrary to those who held the religious power. We denied the power of the Roman pope, demanded we have the holy scriptures written in our languages so we could see for ourselves, denied the kings and queens their divine right to rule, and twisted the hierarchy till it was running in reverse! The only thing "christian" about it was the fact that it was Christ who began to twist the hierarchy!

originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You have to refuse to, though. It's option B. Option A, the default option, is to swear on the Bible. Seems Christian to me.

I have been involved in a few court proceedings and not once have I even seen a bible present to swear on. I've been sworn in twice and I was only asked to "tell the truth and nothing but the truth".

a reply to: artistpoet
The point of my post was.that it doesn't matter if I concur

originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: TzarChasm

And yet we swear on the Bible.

a gesture of cultural significance from an older time. like saying bless you when someone sneezes. do we really believe that their soul is in danger or that our suggestion will change its fate? no. its just tradition. and a great deal of our traditions are superstitious in nature. ie heavily steeped in supernatural forces that have long since been disproven. walked under a ladder lately?