The Conservative UK Election Majority - Selfish and Greedy or What Else?

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Fair play, i apologise. I am just up to my eyeballs already with the Left banging on about the nation is now ruined etc, etc just becuase they didn't get the result they want. It is simply pathetic.

As to tax, i actually like the tax system we have in the UK at present. At the same time, i wouldn't be opposed to Scandinavian levels of taxation - provided we end up with the same quality of services. I think we all know that wouln't happen.......

The quality of services there isn't that much better, although the hospitals are certainly better maintained and less run down.

Healthcare isn't free there - you have to pay £15-£30 for a 15 minute meeting with your local friendly GP to get a prescription renewed, and you actually pay the full price of prescription medicines up to £150 annually, after which it begins tapering off.

Scandinavian NHS queues for surgery and treatment are longer than in the UK. There is a 3 month maximum period, however it can be prolonged indefinitely by the hospitals sending a letter with a different opinion close to each 3 month limit, effectively causing people to wait 6-12 months or more for surgery.

Scandinavian taxes are regressive and does very little to improve services.

How do I know? I've lived there for 20 years.

originally posted by: moniker

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Have you actually checked out the figures on the tax rates for the top earners? There is a reason Labour didn't really go into it during the campaign - quite simply the figures back up Tory policy. The wealthiest create more tax revenue on the lower rates than they ever did on the higher bands.

This i realise is uncomfortable for many but it is why i simply don't trust Labour - they don't understand how the economy works (actually, it is one of many reasons why i don't trust Labour).

Along the same lines I would argue that the UK would raise far more in taxes by lowering its corporation tax rate to 10-12%. It would attract far more companies to the UK rather than to Ireland, providing more jobs (e.g. increasing income tax and NI takes) and increase consumption (e.g. increasing VAT income). Corporation tax is a regressive tax and Labour has never understood that.

There is a theory, with a name I can't remember because it's been years since I studied it, that said the best course is the one with the highest benefit - in other words, if you break the law but are still better off after paying fines etc, you should break the law. If you don't do this, the legislators are unable to correctly adjust the laws to either allow the behaviour at the best economic level, or adjust the penalties to make unwanted behaviour unprofitable. In other words, breaking bad laws enables better ones to be written. This was in specific relation to economics and financial laws.

So, make the tax rate more advantageous to pay than to avoid, everyone benefits. Start asking for silly money, it becomes economically better to hire the army of tax avoidance specialists. And it is absolutely correct for a company to do that, because breaking a bad law enables better ones to be written.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: teapot
In my opinion, no one who has ever had a secure and unassailable living circumstance, no one who has ever owned a property worth more than two hundred and fifty thousand pounds, no one who has had a job which involved a good suit as part of their work wear, should even be allowed to stand as a Labour MP, let alone as a potential Labour PM. And yet the whole party seems to be made up of well to do city boys and girls, who are about as familiar with the realities of life in this country, as I am with extended stays at Hilton hotels, and driving super cars.

Labour should be for the labourers, not the yuppies, not the bankers, not the lawyers and paper pushers, but for those whose working life is about putting real effort in, to produce or provide a good or a service. And because that is NOT how the party runs, there is no proper representation for honest, hardworking people in this country. The REAL wealth creators, the people upon whose backs this nations GDP ACTUALLY rests, those who work on factory and shop floors, those who break their bodies, sweat, and bleed for their pittance get NO representation in this day and age.

British Labour (or any Labour party around the world for that matter) has not been about the people you think for a very long time, if ever. Labour is mainly for an elevated small elite to govern and make decisions for a large populace, pretending that everybody should have it equally bad - not really bad, just not very good - under the pretence that that is "fair", while at the same time securing a good, life-long, highly paid job with great benefits for themselves. It is all about creating a two tier, or two-class system consisting of the masses and political elite.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: pikestaff
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Oliver Cromwell? the commander who had some of his own men shot? Really?

Yes they were traitors to the cause!

Thats not democracy.......,,

Sounds like north korea to me.......

Isn't North Korea sort of a Labour country?

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: ProleUK

The non doms is a weird issue for me in that most independent reports into non dom tax status show that the Labour proposals would probably raise less rather than more tax. So, whilst it is an unfair anomaly, it is really something of a non issue. This means it was a pretty large mistake for Milliband to make it so central to his proposals.

I genuinely believe that if it could be shown it would raise more tax, it would be an important issue. But as it is......

I agree, and many countries have similar concessions. The Netherlands have a temporary residency scheme (that can last forever) entitling foreigners to 30% less income tax. Scandinavian countries have their scheme where non-permanent resident foreigners only pay 25% tax (there is no Employee's NI there whatsoever) in exchange for no right to state pension and benefits, etc.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
the NHS will be sold off - It will start with a few percent and then they will say 'Well look how good it has gotten since we sold X amount to the private business so we're gonna sell another twenty/thirty percent to make it even better' and it will go on until there is no NHS.

As long as its still free at point of use and offers good quality healthcare I care little if its private or state owned.

Some of the best healthcare systems in the world have a private healthcare system subsidized by the government for universal healthcare.

Private does not necessarily mean American style hellish health "care"

Totally agree. If I'm ill and need help, the first thing on my mind is quality of services fast and the least thing would be whether it's the NHS or a private outfit, and whether that private outfit is allowed to make any profit.

I'd say that a blend is probably the best compromise, where the NHS is the first port of call for GPs and A&E.

Furthermore, it probably hasn't occurred to Labour that most GP clinics have been run privately since long before Labour lost power.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: crazyewok
Dont like it clear off to a non democratic country like North Korea, you wont have worry about votes and ignorant voters there,

North Korea is a democracy just like China and Russia. They have general elections and people have their say.

Of course, there is only one party to choose from, but who said democracy had to include options?

originally posted by: Hurky1
So 36% of UK voters voted Tory. 64% of UK voters didn't.

This is what I have a problem with. 3/4 of the voters of the UK didn't vote Tory yet they get in!

Mmmmm

Time for a change methinks.

That's the nub of the whole fiasco. The "divide the votes and rule", is a well worked out strategy. Control of the media, by those in power, and you have a miserable outlook for change. Why should they, they are the ones on top and make the laws to stay there. So its another five years of, one half of the population, looking at poor people and hoping they don't turn out like that. Next crash will be interesting.

originally posted by: Hurky1
So 36% of UK voters voted Tory. 64% of UK voters didn't.

This is what I have a problem with. 3/4 of the voters of the UK didn't vote Tory yet they get in!

Mmmmm

Time for a change methinks.

That happens here all the time, and that vividly shows the electorial process is a huge sham.

I'm ashamed to call myself British. We used to pride ourselves on being a civilised country.

There's absolutely nothing civilised about a Tory government. There's absolutely nothing civilised about hurting the less fortunate. There's absolutely nothing civilised about the total #ing scam that is the voting system.

I still feel nauseous.

a reply to: SensiblyReckless

Scam or not, people in this country have been aware of how it works since forever. It's always brought up after elections. People still voted for Tories, knowing their policies and knowing they would likely get elected. Don't blame just the Tories, blame the people who voted for them too, they are equally culpable for every single bad thing the elected Tories do. When someone dies as a result of Tory policy, that blood is on the hands of every single Tory voter.

I read a quote from a conservative that explained how they operate he said the conservatives are a "coalition of privileged interests. Its main purpose is to defend that privilege. And the way it wins elections is by giving just enough to just enough other people".

One thing that hasn't been spoken about is the fact that when the torie coalition came to power in 2010 Britain was in £700 billion debt. Now it is in £1.4 trillion debt and it is raising at £2 billion a week.

In 2005 a wealthy 1000 people in Britain shared £250 billion. The same 1000 people now share £547 billion. Yet for the majority of people Living standards are declining, education standards are declining, suicide rates are up and the proposed torie cuts are going to effect everyone (except the top of course).

It's the old i'm alright jack f# the poor but to the new few the middle class is the poor.

a reply to: coverthippie


Absolutely spot on mate.
Shame people are too thick and ignorant to understand this.

I'm a low income worker, I dread the next 5 years, I see food banks and homeless shelters in my future.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
I'm a low income worker, I dread the next 5 years, I see food banks and homeless shelters in my future.

Why? By 2020 you'll be paying no taxes at all!

And if you want more money, why not get a better paid job? If you can't, why not retrain?

You can't blame the Government for everything...

a reply to: Firefly_

You're absolutely right.

Blood on the hands of those, heartless, souless, Tory voting bastards. I hope the cuts hit them.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
I'm a low income worker, I dread the next 5 years, I see food banks and homeless shelters in my future.

Why? By 2020 you'll be paying no taxes at all!

And if you want more money, why not get a better paid job? If you can't, why not retrain?

You can't blame the Government for everything...

^^ Tory logic

Yes, why doesn't he just stroll into one of those well paid jobs that don't exist.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Flavian

Interesting, but do you actually work for the NHS to know what you are talking about, because my son and a lot of his colleagues from throughout the NHS and interestingly my GP see it different from their own experiences within the NHS.

Anyone who has learnt Data Base can tell you that statistics etc can be fixed any way you want depending on what figures you wish to emphasize.

I personally don't work for the NHS no. I have a sister who works in Surgery and i am old friends (since school) with 3 Consultants and 4 GP's (well, they are these days....just spotty, oiky teenagres back in the day!).

You are correct to say data can be interpreted anyway you like but even the think tanks run by Left leaning organisations actually show the NHS is currently doing quite well. That is why during the election they actually shut up rather than spout off, as they knew Ed didn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to publicly back him on this issue.

As to the main issues with the NHS - the Health authorities with the most issues have been those (by and large) that are most inept at managing their own finances. It is a bit rich to then moan about Tory policies.

As to personal experience, just a couple of examples. I had to go to Casualty yesterday. From first going in to seeing a nurse to then seeing a GP for treatment took around 40 minutes, for a service i was totally happy with and a result i was very pleased with. Is this a one off? No. How do i know? More personal experience. My youngest daughter, for example, needs some tests doing. Initially we were given an appointment for the end of June. However, after speaking to the hospital staff and discussing her symptoms, she is now being seen in a couple of days.

That is shoddy service! I will also add that my local health authority is one of those that cocked up their budget - and i am still more than happy with the service i received.

I will also add that during the coalition government, i needed a new dentist. That took 1 week to sort out. Under the Blair government, i also needed a new dentist (moved since then!). This took 3 months to sort out.

originally posted by: moniker
Totally agree. If I'm ill and need help, the first thing on my mind is quality of services fast and the least thing would be whether it's the NHS or a private outfit, and whether that private outfit is allowed to make any profit.

Most people don't recognise that their local GP practice is essentially privatised, which is why GPs can decide NOT to work nights or weekends unless paid exorbitant fees. I don't see many people banging on about the privatisation of primary care in the UK. But we do hear about how badly paid GPs are don't we!

Of that total, 670 GPs received more than £200,000 a year in 2011/12, up from 730 in the previous year.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: paraphias far as g.ps go. I would be happy to have my meeting over Skype or just the telephone. I hate having to wait in a waiting room surrounded by people coughing and spluttering. I only go to a gp surgery for the phlebotomist or to pick up prescriptions. Most things like colds and fevers could be dealt with by pharmacists, so the role of the g.p for most people is becoming obsolete. If you have a serious disease, you are normally under the care of specialists, with specialist nurses who knowing your case history, can help much more than a GP visit.