The Conservative UK Election Majority - Selfish and Greedy or What Else?

originally posted by: EvillerBob
Also, I wonder if most of the people talking about the "bedroom tax" actually understands what it means?

Anyone who calls it the "bedroom tax" clearly doesn't understand. It's a term coined by Labour as a point scorer, all the while hoping no one remembers it was brought in by Labour in 2007....

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: EvillerBob
Also, I wonder if most of the people talking about the "bedroom tax" actually understands what it means?

Anyone who calls it the "bedroom tax" clearly doesn't understand. It's a term coined by Labour as a point scorer, all the while hoping no one remembers it was brought in by Labour in 2007....

Labour knew they are going to lose in the 2010 election. I swear they set some of these policy's in motion just so others would take the rap latter on.

Im glad Ed Balls and his "funny" notes about there being no money left has gone, the arrogant #

I don't normally bother with the political forums much but this election has been a bit of an eye opener to me.



Start with the people. Sadly too many of us are uninformed, some badly informed and many totally ignorant. I have heard people in their 30s at work, who I consider highly intelligent, considering thinking of voting for the first time! Debates tended to be about who looked better on TV. No one really seemed to know what policies anyone offered. Oh except maybe UKIP wanted to cut immigration. One person was even going to ask their mum who to vote for and others didn't realize you don't vote for the party leader but your own local MP. The politicians all seemed to be telling us how bad the other parties would be if we voted for them. The emphasis did not seem to be about how and what their own parties would actually do for us.

It all felt like it had become not about real politics and more about personality contests and instilling fear. A very negative campaign. There are also too many people who see becoming a politician as a career move rather than a genuine interest in serving the people.

I actually think we should rip up the whole system and start again.

I'd get rid of the current balloting system and have multiple option questionnaires on what economic and political options people preferred. If you can't be bothered filling one in that's your problem. The results of those options would have to form the general policies of the new government. There would no longer be any MPs. They would have to apply for the job as national administrator with the job of following through the policies of the people. They would not be allowed to be lobbied or funded by large businesses, or vote on any matters where they held a clear vested interest. If they broke those rules they would go to jail.

The Prime Minister has to look and sound good on TV so we could then have a sort of X-Factor style competition for that and prominent cabinet jobs.

I'm only half joking but this is the 21st century and I think the whole democratic process as it now stands is in serious need of review.

By the way do all the MPs who lost their seats have to visit the job centre to prove they have been applying for councillor positions etc. or they get their benefits stopped?

While Labour, Li Dems, Greens etcc all ran terrible campaings I think the worst result of this election is the public have bought into the Tories US dirty tricks style campaign over attacking opposition over looks and criticising others to deflect from the fact they have no faith in their own policies and can't stand up to scrutiny.

Hopefully this will be the only election where this is the case as there's going to be a lot of very pissed off Tory voters once they read what the actual policies are (half of them leaked and it's bye, bye NHS, anyone under 25, education, universities, industry, science, technology, engineering and maths, transport etc...).

Time to get out before the pointless, ill informed EU vote.

originally posted by: bastion
Hopefully this will be the only election where this is the case as there's going to be a lot of very pissed off Tory voters once they read what the actual policies are (half of them leaked and it's bye, bye NHS, anyone under 25, education, universities, industry, science, technology, engineering and maths, transport etc...).

I assume that you're going to follow Paddy Ashdown's example and eat your hat in 5 years if none of this pans out? Everything you have said is just typical, ideologically driven nonsense that Labour tried (and failed) to use in the Election themselves.

originally posted by: bastion
Time to get out before the pointless, ill informed EU vote.

And the fact you think any referendum on the EU is "pointless and ill informed" betray's your contempt for the people. The election is over, the choice has been made, stop acting like a spoilt child.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: bastion
Hopefully this will be the only election where this is the case as there's going to be a lot of very pissed off Tory voters once they read what the actual policies are (half of them leaked and it's bye, bye NHS, anyone under 25, education, universities, industry, science, technology, engineering and maths, transport etc...).

I assume that you're going to follow Paddy Ashdown's example and eat your hat in 5 years if none of this pans out? Everything you have said is just typical, ideologically driven nonsense that Labour tried (and failed) to use in the Election themselves.

originally posted by: bastion
Time to get out before the pointless, ill informed EU vote.

And the fact you think any referendum on the EU is "pointless and ill informed" betray's your contempt for the people. The election is over, the choice has been made, stop acting like a spoilt child.

Like I said they're leaked official government documents, not rumours - have a read here. This has been news for weeks.

www.bbc.co.uk...
www.independent.co.uk...
www.independent.co.uk... ml
www.telegraph.co.uk...
I'll hapilly eat my hat if it doesn't come true considering the £20bn cut from disabled and sale of over 40% of the NHS to private contractors under condems. If you don't think it's been happening, you haven't been paying attention.

Having had to study EU/EC etc.. for work I naturally have contempt for the general publics view on Europe as most people have completely minsinformed ideas on how it's set up, how many EU laws are British, how many billions we receive in aid etc...as they read newspaper guff instead of respected publications or valid studies. Do you honestly think the average voter is going to spend weeks/months educating themselves on the issue or just look for the simplest answer?

edit on 9-5-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: bastion

Time to get out before the pointless, ill informed EU vote.

The Public want a vote.

We are entitled to a vote.

If labour lost its because twats like him refused to give us a voice in the EU.

a reply to: bastion

Ooooh..... Proposals... So they talked through the options they had and your using it as cast iron evidence of some evil plot to ruin the old, the young, the NHS etc etc? I would be more miffed if they didn't have lengthy discussions about their options!

It's only £12 billion they have to find, a relatively small amount of money that can easily be wiped out by a slight uptick in tax receipts.

As for the NHS and this "privatisation" nonsense - did you know the best health services in the world (the European ones) that are often held up as examples of how the NHS should work are actually public/private mixes? In France, for example, 40% of their hospitals are privately owned. Germany has a publicly funded insurance scheme and have even fewer "State" hospitals.

As long as it is free at the point of use, what is the issue? I've seen people complain about waiting times in the NHS here on ATS, but when the Government farms out a contract to get a private medical provider in to help clear the backlog, people like you are up in arms about it, even it it means people get their x-rays and scans done next week instead of 3 months time...

Ridiculous, ideology driven, sentimental bullcrap.

a reply to: Flavian

Interesting, but do you actually work for the NHS to know what you are talking about, because my son and a lot of his colleagues from throughout the NHS and interestingly my GP see it different from their own experiences within the NHS.

Anyone who has learnt Data Base can tell you that statistics etc can be fixed any way you want depending on what figures you wish to emphasize.

In a Ironic twist Ed fixation on banning zero hour contracts actually stopped a few mates of mine voting labour why?

They are on zero hour contracts and relies heavily on the flexible hours!

They are going through uni and need to be able to pick and choose these hours.

a reply to: crazyewok

Getting rid of Balls was one of the best things that ever happened to Labour, its just sad that men like Blair and Brown went into that party also because it will take years to get rid of Blair's stigma and there's probably more to come out with lord Janner and associates within that party.

However without a strong labour party none is fighting against zero hour contracts, the bad side of the minimum wage which doesn't reflect what it actually costs to live in this country if you are trying to maintain a home and family here. The corporations not paying tax here, yet our tax money going to make up their low wage bills for workers here - simply they could 't get the staff wet it not for working family tax credits etc. Where do you stop about what's wrong with labour today? But its tragic because they are needed and a regular swing between both these parties use to earn money and then reinvest it in the people here - which clearly does't happen any more.

I cannot believe the Tories got in, I think its a disgrace and I would prefer a proportional representation system which would reflect the number of votes would be fairer.

If indeed the public did got for them then they deserve everything they loose - don't people, bless em, realise they are simply considered as morons, cash cows for the banking system and cannon fodder here by cameron, rothschild and queenie?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: bastion

Ooooh..... Proposals... So they talked through the options they had and your using it as cast iron evidence of some evil plot to ruin the old, the young, the NHS etc etc? I would be more miffed if they didn't have lengthy discussions about their options!

It was a green paper not a proposal - the Tories statements contradicted each other on the issue.

Agreed it'd be odd if they didn't have discussions on options - which is why it's such a scandal they have green papers on slashing the NHS, disabled, welfare etc... and not a single one on cracking down on tax evasion, banking reform etc...which is where the big money lies.

I completely agree it'd be easy to generate the £12bn elsewhere - making google, amazon, tesco and asda/walmart pay the tax they currently illegally dodge would more than cover the bill without any need for cuts - but they're not interested in that, they just want to blame the poorest instead.

This is clearly yet another ideological chouce by the Party to blame the poorest and most vulnerable for the banking crisis.

a reply to: crazyewok

Yes I see their point, but they hopefully will only be at university for 3 - 4 years and after that they might not like those terms. I was surprised at how many grads can't find work to reflect their degrees and either have to leave the country or some, are even doing another degree - I can't imagine the debt and don't want to.

It looks as though we will be joing into Federal Europe under cameron (which was why I always thought we would end up with a tory lot in order to get us in) but I am wondering just whats in it for queenie, and Cam's ilk as I cannot see Europe being that enamoured with british aristrocacy or for that matter the danish one? Sooner or later those old blood lines will be so inbred and outnumbered by ambitious young Eurocrats I cannot see them surviving.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Although I voted for my Conservative MP I do recognize there are some good MP's in labour.
They just need to get rid of the old Blairites. Ditching Ed Balls was a very good start.

Likewise there are some very good Conservative MP's but they could really use with getting rid of some of the old school Torys like May, IDK , Gove and Johnson.

My local MP is apparently in the running for replacing Cameron in 2020 , Problem is what makes her a good MP is exactly why she wont get it and that's her habit of being a rebel.

a reply to: bastion

What really gets me is that nothing appears to be being put in place or create a new banking system so that the old one, which we know is corrupt and not functioning when countries use QA which only increases their debts, needs to be got rid of without crashing the world's financial markets so nothing can function.

a reply to: crazyewok

Spring clean through, what?

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: crazyewok

Spring clean through, what?

Yup both party's need a spring clean.

Get rid of the crusty old farts propping up the old establishment.

a reply to: bastion

Before we all get hot under the collar about things that may not even come to pass, lets at least see what this Government does and judge them on it - there will be a Queens speech soon and we'll see what they have planned.

A green paper, by the way, is just a consultation, nothing more. To even become law, it has to then become a White paper and then is subject to Parliamentary scrutiny.

Contrary to some claims, the last lot did do a lot about the big corps and they're tax dodging. The thing is, you cannot just act unilaterally, especially when you're talking about internal EU business. To get Amazon et al to pay tax on money earnt within a state, that needed EU level agreement, which took an age to sort out but is now in place.

The same goes for banking. Pull the rug out from under them and no one else does, you've just screwed over a large part of the UK economy and for what? You'll lose more taxes from the relocating than you would earn from keeping them here. There is reform being pushed through though, but again this needs global organisation to make sure we don't actually lose out more than we'd gain.

Life isn't so black and white.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: crazyewok

Yes I see their point, but they hopefully will only be at university for 3 - 4 years and after that they might not like those terms. I was surprised at how many grads can't find work to reflect their degrees and either have to leave the country or some, are even doing another degree - I can't imagine the debt and don't want to.

It looks as though we will be joing into Federal Europe under cameron (which was why I always thought we would end up with a tory lot in order to get us in) but I am wondering just whats in it for queenie, and Cam's ilk as I cannot see Europe being that enamoured with british aristrocacy or for that matter the danish one? Sooner or later those old blood lines will be so inbred and outnumbered by ambitious young Eurocrats I cannot see them surviving.

I think Zero Contracts need looking at but not entirely ditched in the way labour wanted.

They have there uses. But they to me are not meant as careers.

Think we need to concentrate on creating real career jobs and leave the zero hour contacts to the uni students and part time workers like they were meant too.

a reply to: stumason

Dude I specialised in local and national government at newspapers for years so know how it works, there's motnhs of work before something gets the green light (for fear of leaks). But yes, I'll leave it until after the speeches etc.. as I'm still reeling from the personally devastating result and ranting.

Ewok - Agreed. Labour do have a handful of brilliant MPs, sadly most want to be the next Blair with added beige and have nothing traditionally Labour about them - the only way I can see them being electable again is if they lay the vast majority off and replace them with proper, non-career politicians who are more interested in the public than their own pockets which the vast majority of Labour are guilty of IMO.