Putin's Propaganda Machine.

a reply to: yuppa

sounds like pretty much the situation atm.

a reply to: mSparks43

Putin isn't party to the Geneva convention.
In case you didn't notice the soviet union doesn't exist anymore.

Names change, the conventions signed by the same country with different names don't.

a reply to: yuppa

No need for a trial or capture since under the conventions WE can kill them outright.

But it seems Ukraine would rather try them as terrorists...because remember they aren't there because of the Russian government.

'Russian soldiers' captured in Ukraine to face trial on terrorism charges

www.theguardian.com...

This should go over well in Russia.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: yuppa

No need for a trial or capture since under the conventions WE can kill them outright.

But it seems Ukraine would rather try them as terrorists...because remember they aren't there because of the Russian government.

'Russian soldiers' captured in Ukraine to face trial on terrorism charges

www.theguardian.com...

This should go over well in Russia.

Latest now is the Russians are requesting to speak with them. The irony is if they were military POWS they would have that right. As civilian terrorists in Ukraine they dont.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: yuppa

No need for a trial or capture since under the conventions WE can kill them outright.

But it seems Ukraine would rather try them as terrorists...because remember they aren't there because of the Russian government.

'Russian soldiers' captured in Ukraine to face trial on terrorism charges

www.theguardian.com...

This should go over well in Russia.

Latest now is the Russians are requesting to speak with them. The irony is if they were military POWS they would have that right. As civilian terrorists in Ukraine they dont.

Quite true according to geneva they dont even deserve POW status really. They can be tried or sumarrily executed with no trial according to them. A trial is just a courtesy if given.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: yuppa

No need for a trial or capture since under the conventions WE can kill them outright.

But it seems Ukraine would rather try them as terrorists...because remember they aren't there because of the Russian government.

'Russian soldiers' captured in Ukraine to face trial on terrorism charges

www.theguardian.com...

This should go over well in Russia.

Nice article and thanks for posting that. I don't know what to think after following this thread all the way through.
If in fact the soldiers are considered Terrorists, what would "Black Water" be considered in Iraq? Seems to me that what was once called a Mercenary for hire is now a Terrorist.
www.nytimes.com...
It looks like the "Blackwater Crew" got off easy for straight out Murder/Execution.
The word terrorist is over used and hyped to the nines, does it really matter what the name is? I have no idea but this thread is really thought provoking.

Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: Iwinder

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: yuppa

No need for a trial or capture since under the conventions WE can kill them outright.

But it seems Ukraine would rather try them as terrorists...because remember they aren't there because of the Russian government.

'Russian soldiers' captured in Ukraine to face trial on terrorism charges

www.theguardian.com...

This should go over well in Russia.

Nice article and thanks for posting that. I don't know what to think after following this thread all the way through.
If in fact the soldiers are considered Terrorists, what would "Black Water" be considered in Iraq? Seems to me that what was once called a Mercenary for hire is now a Terrorist.
www.nytimes.com...
It looks like the "Blackwater Crew" got off easy for straight out Murder/Execution.
The word terrorist is over used and hyped to the nines, does it really matter what the name is? I have no idea but this thread is really thought provoking.

Regards, Iwinder

Doesn't sound that way to me 30 yrs and a life sentence in an Iraqi prison they won't live past 5. Might as well say they are a death sentence I've seen the prison in Ramada you aren't expected to live long. Maybe they will be lucky and the US govt will charge Iraq to hold them lol.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

that's definately been the assumption until now.
but when the US can't even get snowden back, to continue their propoganda of fear. what chance do they have with unidentified terrorists, who may or may not of broken some rules laid out under a convention that may or may not be applicable.

history is written by the victor.
and what you know about history is probably going to change quite a lot soon....

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

that's definately been the assumption until now.
but when the US can't even get snowden back, to continue their propoganda of fear. what chance do they have with unidentified terrorists, who may or may not of broken some rules laid out under a convention that may or may not be applicable.

history is written by the victor.
and what you know about history is probably going to change quite a lot soon....

The days of changing history are over my friend.The re is no way to stop the flood of information available today. And the truth always comes out PUTIN believes he can control information. As we can see he can't his lies are unraveling as we speak. We see the russian economy tanking with that goes his power. His options are becoming limited.

a reply to: dragonridr

which is why history is going to change.

awful lot more lies in the history as written by Churchill.

why else do you think her majesties ministers are so desperate to lock you out of a free and open Internet?

sorry. let me rephrase.
why do you think her majesties ministers locked you out of the free and open Internet?

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

which is why history is going to change.

awful lot more lies in the history as written by Churchill.

why else do you think her majesties ministers are so desperate to lock you out of a free and open Internet?

sorry. let me rephrase.
why do you think her majesties ministers locked you out of the free and open Internet?

Didn't lock me out if anyrhing since they have no control over my Internet. And I assure you there control doesn't extend outside the UK so I'm now worried. But I'm sure some brit will come on here and willing to debate you on their Internet access. But I'll say they aren't the ones restricting Internet that would be Russia. He's blocking sites and even worse making people register with the state so he can have you arrested for anything the FSB decides is terrorism. At which time they block you or arrest you if possible.
www.wsj.com...

So if you are in Russia and you want to have access to certain sites you have to be on their payroll.

a reply to: dragonridr

They absolutely did lock you out.
UK is up there with the worst of them.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

I take it you weren't around on the web before the days of unicode and IP address based content, when everything from every university in the world was open access and in English.

Now you've got to be in the "in crowd" to gain access to anything other than corporate advertising and government controlled forums.

It's fairly easy, you don't know you are locked out because you don't know what exists.
And google/bing yahoo etc are all filtered to make sure it stays that way.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

They absolutely did lock you out.
UK is up there with the worst of them.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

I take it you weren't around on the web before the days of unicode and IP address based content, when everything from every university in the world was open access and in English.

Now you've got to be in the "in crowd" to gain access to anything other than corporate advertising and government controlled forums.

It's fairly easy, you don't know you are locked out because you don't know what exists.
And google/bing yahoo etc are all filtered to make sure it stays that way.

I take it you know nothing about the deep web or the tor browser?? Anything you want is out there if you know what your where to look, Thats why you cant change history and blocking it is impossible except for maybe people who think google sees anything since its maybe 3 percent of the web. Sorry if you dont know what the real web looks like but have fun with your google searches.

a reply to: dragonridr

Tor is an ok workaround. I recently went tor only on my mobile (more todo with the phone company than anything government related)
it still doesn't give you access to the vast majority of the internet that is now only served to white listed IP addresses (that needs a VPN).
Or really help with the numerous sites serving disinformation if you don't know how to get to what they actually serve to their target audience (BBC is the defacto example of this).

You absolutely can change history. The fact you are so "anti Russia/Putin" , when borders, figure heads and governments are virtually obsolete is the best proof I've seen of that to date.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

Tor is an ok workaround. I recently went tor only on my mobile (more todo with the phone company than anything government related)
it still doesn't give you access to the vast majority of the internet that is now only served to white listed IP addresses (that needs a VPN).
Or really help with the numerous sites serving disinformation if you don't know how to get to what they actually serve to their target audience (BBC is the defacto example of this).

You absolutely can change history. The fact you are so "anti Russia/Putin" , when borders, figure heads and governments are virtually obsolete is the best proof I've seen of that to date.

Not anti Russian at all in fact i am Russian i am however anti Putin. I dont like the fact hes enslaving Russians and lying to them. People like you who defend his actions make it all that much easier for him to maintain control hes a very dangerous man.

thought id add this как я уверен, что вы работаете для Путина

a reply to: dragonridr

нисам, ја сам ишао негде друго.
али овде опште више свидје путина него евро.
Вероватно ја бих ако он је желео.

But we're not supposed to do that on here.

We've still not established what you think these lies are. Only thing we've got is "he's saying troops aren't in the Ukraine".
Which is actually kinda true since they recognised the DNR/DPR but others havent.

arguing semantics about putin saying these guys are on vacation and rogues and former military huh? CIA and special services in WW2 perfected the deniability angle. argue all you want but thats obvious to more than half of ATS and we all roll our eyes everytime a mouthpiece speaks here on ATS.

a reply to: yuppa

I'd bet there's quite a few blackwater lot fighting for putin too.

snowden probably gave him all their email addresses.


then again. they're probably too busy fighting him in Syria.
not going too well for the west there either.

originally posted by: yuppa
arguing semantics about putin saying these guys are on vacation and rogues and former military huh? CIA and special services in WW2 perfected the deniability angle. argue all you want but thats obvious to more than half of ATS and we all roll our eyes everytime a mouthpiece speaks here on ATS.

He thinks constantly changing the focus somehow protects his savior. Putin has a hard track to follow over the nexrt couple of years lets hope his greed wins out over his ego. My fear is money means nothing now that hes stolen more than anyone could possibly need. now hes working on his legacy. If this is the case things are going to get worse it may come to NATO actually having to stop him. in the Balkans well eastern Europe really they are preparing for world war 3. I think the west may be iave here thinking hes going to come to his senses. He seems himself as rebuilding the Soviet Union he wants to be Stalin. Ill go as far as saying all the Putin worship is going to his head at first it was all about money now im not so sure.

a reply to: mSparks43

I'd bet there's quite a few blackwater lot fighting for putin too.

They prefer to be called Chechans.