The Proof of What Happens To Us After Death and the Subsequent denial of it.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: humanityrising

How true! UFO discussions are the same as this thread. Everyone has a belief, but no one has proof. Until proof arrives on either subject, the discussions are pretty much just a way for well-off, or bored people to pass the time.

Proof is here but you missed it. Read "Proof of Heaven".

www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=888994

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

If the soul didn't exist, I think it would make a difference.For me, the belief in soul gives me an opportunity to draw from deeper wells of inspiration.A part of me looked at the cup as half empty more often in times of doubt...

Doubt is what drives us to a better understanding ... Arrogance already knows ...
Some days I know nothing at all ... and sweep aside all I think I understand ... to doubt all I think I know ...
To look again with fresh eyes ... to be open to inspiration and new ways of seeing

Yes Soul is the the most important of questions ... For soul is all things in Reality

Threads like this I can't really take seriously. The OP is just one of thousands of people who bug me.

Why do they feel the need to do this? Its like its more about them being right, and other people being wrong ( primitive human thinking)

The simple fact is, we just don't know for sure.

Consienceses for example is still not understood . isnit 100% part of the brain?

Me, I don't know what happens when we die. There could be nothing, or there could be something. I just don't have the arragonce or belief system to say for sure.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

He is with you in your mind not as an external force/spirit or soul as you call it!

I lost my father nearly 10 years ago and beforehand we had always believed that when you die you are dead and there is nothing more. He said he would let me know in some way if there was then he died. Sadly, ive not herd or experienced anything! So he has gone in the most profound sense. Yet he is still with me in mind/thought!!!

Yes he is with me in thought/mind
Thought is what enables us to perceive ... I am not arguing with you by the way ... you have your own set of beliefs and I mine.

As I have often stated ... Proof is only gained by oneself and is not second hand ... Science can offer up proof of something but that means nothing until one understands it to be so or indeed not ... by one's own efforts / intentions

If one dismisses the idea of the soul ... then one has closed one's mind to that idea ...
For example I do not believe in flying pigs ... so will never look for proof or not of their existence

This article provides a quick summary of what a few other posters have provided regarding quantum theory and consciousness after "death":

www.learning-mind.com...

I think we've barely touched the surface of what we have yet to learn about consciousness, death, and what happens to us after... to assume we know everything about it now is supreme arrogance - which man has suffered from time and time again through history.

"The Tao that can be told is NOT the eternal Tao..." Lao Tzu

"You are NOT Your body..." Jesus The Chris†

You certainly don't have to 'die' to leave Your body while still breathing. If One is 'body centric' they will HAVE to wait until 'passing' to leave their vessel.

Each Self a 'Creator' working their way "back from whence they came" The One Infinite Creator, Hunab Ku, who resides in The Octave.. 7 +1 = 8 (Octave) 7 chakras + 1 = Creator

namaste

P.S. All the "organized religions" are 'different' this makes them the 'same' so remove what is the 'same' in all the 'different' religions and TheTruth will be revealed..

The only thing that stays the same in a world of constant change is The Truth..

••• Your Mileage May Vary •••

Interesting and thank you!

The problem is, we haven't the resolution with our current measurement devices to debt what happens at a quantum level. CERN is the closest we have and even then, the data collected is not even known for sure to be correct as reconstruction algorithms are used. All that does is hypothesize within a certain probability that the resultant is correct.
"Muon reconstruction efficiency as a function of η for muons with pT > 20 GeV and different muon reconstruction types. CB and SA muon types are reconstructed using the Chain 1 reconstruction algorithm. atlas.web.cern.ch...

When we do have the ability to discern (pun intended haha) particles, waves, etc. a few of things will happen (in my opinion).

First we'll see a technology renaissance occur that will lead to major break throughs in energy generation and manipulation. Another form of physics will pop up to research. Dark matter will be involved in this.

Second we'll see if we are alone, it's a holographic universe and God doesn't exist (unless you think God is an interconnection of us all, then maybe it does, Think of it like we are individual lines of computer code and God is the program).

Mountains and mountains and mountains of real tangible evidence, and all I hear is "we can't know for sure", which is an argument that has not once been supplied with any reason or evidence, and in my mind false, or "consciousness", which is no different than any other etheric substance.

For one, it is a pure dogma to assume we cannot be correct in our understandings of the world. You can only ever say we cannot know but will not even attempt to argue why this is the case. It's fence-sitting for no reason besides fear of accepting base facts.

Or two, you believe consciousness to be different than any soul, psyche, spirit etc., yet with no discernable evidence besides your tiny hopes. In the study of consciousness, which will turn out to be a waste of time, they are still nonetheless studying the body, which is the very same thing we put under ground. At no point is their attention diverted from anything other than the very same thing we bury.

Or three, the appeal to quantum mechanics, which says absolutely nothing on the topic, and should concern itself with lazers.

The denial of real, physical, historical, and even personal evidence, is nothing short of lying to oneself. And this thread is making that case simply by existing.

a reply to: Elementalist

I guess with your logic and conclusion, people like me should see a therapist!? Because I deffinately belive in my spirit and soul 1000000% and nothing will convince me it does not exist.

Open your minds eye/third eye, have a nonphysical experience, then start making threads in the metaphysical forums.

Otherwise stop pushing your bull# on this website. We get it, your anti spirit, Have a nice life then.

Just a quick point before you storm off, there’s plenty of books and research on metaphysics that might add repertoire to your spiritual arsenal, at least so it appears you actually know what you're talking about. I suggest you take a look.

I’m not anti-spirit. I prefer “pro-reality”.

a reply to: carewemust

How true! UFO discussions are the same as this thread. Everyone has a belief, but no one has proof. Until proof arrives on either subject, the discussions are pretty much just a way for well-off, or bored people to pass the time.

We have plenty of proof. What more do you need? The problem lies in your skepticism towards it, and it is likely that the proof you wait for involves a ghost, a god, or some inter-dimensional being coming back from the dead just to let you know “hey, there is an afterlife”. Even the proof you wait for is assuming the initial point: that there is proof, and you must wait for it. This sort of reserving of judgement is a waiting for nothing.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Threads like this I can't really take seriously. The OP is just one of thousands of people who bug me.

Why do they feel the need to do this? Its like its more about them being right, and other people being wrong ( primitive human thinking)

The simple fact is, we just don't know for sure.

You're only promoting skepticism towards base facts on the premise "we don't know for sure", which is an assertion you'll never back up with any argument or evidence.

Why do we not know for sure?

Everyone on Earth needs to read the book Life After Life By Ramond Moody. It has first hand accounts of people on the edge of the other side. We tend to fear what we don't understand. This book actually breaks down the Tibetan Book of the Dead. It confirms what I already knew. You are pure consciousness. You become pure consciousness (with a light body also). The observer can never dissipate. We become one with everything.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If a person doesn't know 'what' they are, by that I mean if they do not understand their position in the scheme of the phenomenal World, then there is NO possible way for them understand anything at all, be it philosophically, mystically, ideologically or any other form of conceptual understanding.

There is absolutely no proof or evidence which substantiates anybody's version of phenomenal 'reality'. But, my dear LesMisanthrope, science has gone far beyond the physical 'reality' you treat as solid ground.

Everything you know about your existence, comes from the the input of your sensory perceptions. And ONLY after the brain has recreated its interpretation of those sensory inputs, do you experience it. If you know anything about scientific discovery, you would know that what you perceive of the universe around you is but a finite slice of an infinite spectrum of perception.

In addition, ALL of your true knowledge (experiential knowledge..not knowledge from a book) is based SOLEY on this information. So technically speaking, you have absolutely NO idea about what's really outside of the extremely limited and finite information being fed to you from your mind/body instrument. You have NO idea what's happening outside of your skull. Socrates was a wise man because he saw through the illusion of phenomonality and the sense of reality we give to it.

I believe it's moot to speculate. We as a scientific/medically equipped society really don't have the means or apparatus needed to search for that which could prove either way the existence of a Soul.

We have Faith or denial to choose from in this regard. What we do have however, is the option to gamble which is true, soul or no soul. This is a hot topic as the consequences for a wrong absolute belief could be Eternal Bliss, or an Eternity in Torment and separation as described in most religious theology, or that is to say, Occidental man. Western Religions nearly all insist on a Soul as part of their belief system. Even some Eastern religions insist as well.

The main problem to post-mortem consciousness is the 'power supply' problem. If, we are that which we call consciousness, then our attempt to 'know' what happens after biological death, requires that our consciousness retains energy and is supplied by some power source to keep it and memory cohesive. During biological life, the physical body is what supplies and organises the power supply, so what can supply the 'energy' after the biological body can no longer do this?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Your observations about decay, putrification and the like are all correct: after death our bodies rot. That, at least to me, is a fact.

But wait - how can I know for sure? I never actually SAW a human body decay. Potatoes, vegetables, flowers - yes. And sure enough some animals too - we live in a rural area. But DO humans decay? If I'd base my opinions on personal observation I could not be sure: I never had to witness it. In Europe, humans mostly die in their beds and we bury them just in time not to have to see them decay. Good.

Still, I think you are right: bodies rot after death. A scientific fact. Oh, wait - almost always. There have been plenty of reports about holy men and women whose bodies were found "intact" after being dead for ages. But they were still dead, I grant you that. And no doubt science has a formula worked out to explain why their bodies did not decay.

Scientific facts, based on observation. Let's see: "Louis Pasteur’s theory of germs is ridiculous fiction.” — Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872. - er.. okay. Bit old, agreed. So: "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977. - come to think of it: I bought my first ready-made, fully functional micro-computer a year later. Still have it. Or "Radio has no future. Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible. X-rays will prove to be a hoax." -- William Thomson, Lord Kelvin, British scientist, 1899. Kelvin was especially good at predictions. Real scientist too.

For those amongst us that communicate with the dead - there are such people - or that have audio recordings of their conversations with the dead - there are such people too - or that have participated in experiments like the Scole experiment; to Rosemary Brown, who spoke with dead composers - to those it is just as well a fact that there is an afterlife as it is to you that there is not. Both groups base their opinion on personal observation.

So it depends on personal observation. To you, there is no life after death. Can't be. Such nonsense: have you ever touched a soul?

To me - I don't know, actually. But I'm not so sure that a smile "is naught but atoms changing places". Have you ever touched love? Enjoyed music? What foul nonsense: what is there to touch. Love does not exist. Nor does music - it are only waves that disturb the peaceful air. Like a soul - such nonsense.

We may find out - just in a few years, maybe sooner - that life is eternal and everlasting. We may even be able to proof that "scientifically". And laugh at those that say that it is impossible for a heavier-than-air contraption to fly.

Or you may be right. Neither of us can proof a negative.

a reply to: elysiumfire

The main problem to post-mortem consciousness is the 'power supply' problem. If, we are that which we call consciousness, then our attempt to 'know' what happens after biological death, requires that our consciousness retains energy and is supplied by some power source to keep it and memory cohesive. During biological life, the physical body is what supplies and organises the power supply, so what can supply the 'energy' after the biological body can no longer do this?

In that context, the consciousness itself IS the source of the energy you speak of, it is THAT from which all perceivable energy is manifested, including the forms that appear within it. The body is the result of the energy, as opposed to being the source of it.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Jay-morris

Threads like this I can't really take seriously. The OP is just one of thousands of people who bug me.

Why do they feel the need to do this? Its like its more about them being right, and other people being wrong ( primitive human thinking)

The simple fact is, we just don't know for sure.

You're only promoting skepticism towards base facts on the premise "we don't know for sure", which is an assertion you'll never back up with any argument or evidence.

Why do we not know for sure?

Simple fact is, there are some great cases out there. Be it NDE, ghosts, reincarnation etc, there are some cases that should make everyone think about this with an open mind, like I do.

You saying you have not come across any cases that makes you question your belief?

If we could view the Earth from outside our worms eye view of it
We would see a very small creature called Human
Much like an insect upon a plant but of course much smaller in scale ...
There is Human playing it's part in the great scheme of things ... but of course Humans are different to most all creatures ... and Yes Humans are special ...

Humans are curious and question and search for answers ... hence we have sciences ... to search out answers for how this or that works and the why and wherefores ... other animals just get on with it playing their own humble part

Is there life after death ... well logic shows there is in that the body will naturally recycle back into the Earth's surface layer ... all is alive in that respect

But what of the spark of intelligence which differentiates us from rock ... where does it go ... does it simply just cease to be

Humans are so arrogant ... they have great intelligence but only measure from their own standpoint
Never giving credence to an over view ... by which I mean The Earth ... the whole Earth ... can Humans make a Earth and all it's complex systems and if they did for what purpose would they have made it ...

Until Humans realise that a great intelligence is behind the reason they and the Earth came to be ... they will never truly understand
They will never look at the Earth and glean what it's true purpose is

What has this to do with Re Incarnation ... A lot

Would you trust any Human to be in charge and run and maintain an Earth
Well perhaps so if that Human had full understanding of the Earth and used that understanding for the benefit of the whole

Humans have a great potential linked to a great deal of understanding to be learnt
Re Incarnation is part of that process ... a lesson not learnt is a lesson yet to be learnt ... and though it could be very few learn in one lifetime

What is the most important thing to learn ... To learn to care for and respect one's fellow beings and environment
What is the aim of the Higher Intelligence ... To survive and put into a better way all it contains for the benefit of all

Is it intelligent for Humans to face oblivion from life ... to obliterate the awareness of all those they love

You either believe there is vast intelligence behind things being at all or presume it came about by accident and chance
If you believe the latter you will never glean understanding of concepts such as Eternity and the soul

If science had knowledge of the soul it would endanger the existence of the soul ... by interference
The best sciences are those which observe without an agenda to conquer

The essence which powers the soul is hidden and must stay that way for good reason

Yes re incarnation exists and so do other realms of existence away from the Earth and the limited view we have of the Universe

Proof will be in the pudding so to speak and we all shall know for sure once we leave this Earth

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

For one, it is a pure dogma to assume we cannot be correct in our understandings of the world. You can only ever say we cannot know but will not even attempt to argue why this is the case. It's fence-sitting for no reason besides fear of accepting base facts. 

Well let's put some chips on the table and shine some light on this understanding shall we? In order to argue against this understanding, you have to establish WHAT understanding you're referring to. At least entertain the topic for a bit.

So what do you know about yourself? So far in your understanding of existence, do you know what you are? What makes up the very fabric of your existence and that of the Universe and establishes your sentience? Forget about the afterlife, do you have the knowledge of yourself now?

Please Indulge us, for this is your chance to set right all the wrongs, correct all these silly delusion and misunderstandings, lay to rest all of these scientific theories, ideologies and philosophies once and for all.