The Proof of What Happens To Us After Death and the Subsequent denial of it.

originally posted by: sparky31
how is there spirit life?i lost my dad 14 years ago,i also was at deaths door myself,why is life after death proven?

there is no proof i see of any life after death,mean if it was true then everyone would be seeing something.

your lights go out i would love to believe that its not it but the evidence to me says other wise.

Why do you assume everyone would be seeing something?

Why dismiss those who claim to have 'seen' (third eye viewing) proof or those who haves been visited by deceased relatives after death?

I was always on the fence as to whether or not there is an afterlife but that all changed when my father visited me in a vision the day after his death.

a reply to: elysiumfire

The basic fact is...we do know. The preponderance of evidence for no post-mortem consciousness is far greater than that which tries to pass as evidence for there being post-mortem consciousness.

No, the basic fact is we do not know. If we did, then conciousness would still not be a mystery and a head scratcher for most experts. That is the truth of the matter.

Speculation is not science fact.

Memory plays a massive part in both the presentation and expression of who we uniquely are. It is the repository of all our mental life, and our mental life is derived entirely from physical life experience. There is no other source for experience of any kind other than all the radiating and chemical energies bathing our bodies to which our bodies are tuned.

Well, that is a bit obvious, bit I do not think you understand what I am talking about.

Yet, you somehow remembered the experience, somehow, you remembered not knowing who you were, what you were (therefore, what existence was). You were able to time it to one second. You were aware, and you knew your location. Somehow, you are unaware now just how contradictory your statement is, and that is because you cannot see the irrationality of what you are claiming.

Again, you are not following me. You said in a previous post why we do not remember before we were born. I gave an example how that is possible. If you can forget in a second everything about yourself, and not even know what a human is, it goes to show how this is easily achieved.

Of course I remember after the experience because I came back.

The '___' merely altered your brain chemistry, amplifying some chemicals whilst inhibiting others, hence the change in consciousness that you claim. Nothing spiritual about it, just a physical reaction occurring within the synapses of your brain.

Yes yes we have heard all that before, and normally from the people who have not touched it

You could be right! It could be our brains making these alien worlds and beings. It could be a coincidence that people have seen the same beings, the same worlds etc. All this could be a coincidence, but also it could be that our brain is a receiver for conciousness, and these plants let us see what we cannot normally see.

Having done it myself, I tend to keep an open mind

Jay-morris

No, the basic fact is we do not know. If we did, then conciousness would still not be a mystery and a head scratcher for most experts.

Do you think consciousness plays has a role in the so-called 'afterlife'? Be careful how you answer.

I do not think you understand what I am talking about.

I am quite sure that you don't either.

...why we do not remember before we were born. I gave an example how that is possible.

It isn't (actually) possible to to have a memory of a before-existence (think through the logic). However, there is one (and only one) possible scenario by which post-mortem consciousness could continue, and that that which we term afterlife could simply be the misinterpretation of the actual reality. I wonder, are you able to surmise that scenario? Is there anyone out there able to surmise that one singular possibility of post-mortem consciousness occurring?

It could be our brains (are) making these alien worlds and beings...

No. I brains don't make anything. The brain is just a medium in which certain electro-chemical interactions occur. Those electro-chemical interactions provide all the basis for our experience, Once they cease, we too cease, and become deceased. End of existence (unless of course, that one scenario I discussed in the earlier paragraph is true, and it is nothing spiritual).

a reply to: elysiumfire

Do you think consciousness plays has a role in the so-called 'afterlife'? Be careful how you answer.

I do not know. You do not know. You stated things about conciousness as fact, when they are not fact all all, not even close. I guess I am just more open minded than you.

I am quite sure that you don't either.

What I'd have stated is not fact, it is an opinion. I have not said once that conciousness  exists outside the brain fact.

It isn't (actually) possible to to have a memory of a before-existence (think through the logic). However, there is one (and only one) possible scenario by which post-mortem consciousness could continue, and that that which we term afterlife could simply be the misinterpretation of the actual reality. I wonder, are you able to surmise that scenario? Is there anyone out there able to surmise that one singular possibility of post-mortem consciousness occurring?

You are getting too serious and deep into this. There are plenty of scientists and neurologists who believe  there is a chance that conciousness can survive after death. Does not have to be spiritual, can be on a quantum mechanical level. Roger Penrose is one such person who believes this could be possible. But he is one of many.

Not as cut and dry as you think.

No. I brains don't make anything. The brain is just a medium in which certain electro-chemical interactions occur. Those electro-chemical interactions provide all the basis for our experience, Once they cease, we too cease, and become deceased. End of existence (unless of course, that one scenario I discussed in the earlier paragraph is true, and it is nothing spiritual).

Did not say it was spiritual. Again, you keep on talking as if I believe it is fact. Never said that!

Conciousness could be all in the brain, I am ok with that. But to say it is proven, then you are wrong, because it is not proven, and is still a mystery.

One thing that is true though, is that psychedelics have the potential to change many things, and help many people.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

an oddly fitting can of worms to open as your last contribution to these forums. your examination is as ruthless and precise as ever. i would have liked to poke around your nihilistic streak a bit and see if there is a deeper message to be gleaned here. alas, bravo and farewell.

originally posted by: Xaphan

originally posted by: Elementalist
Your still trying to convince yourself there is no spirit life ..

Enjoy the dirt

I'm not even religious at all, and kind of undecided on the whole afterlife thing, but sometimes I wonder if these militant atheists (the ones who get really 'Aspergy' about it and flog the topic over and over) fear the idea of nothingness and subconsciously hope that someday, after enough prodding, somebody will come along and present them with some convincing evidence that will put their mind at ease. I'm not saying that this is definitely the case with LesMisanthrope, but I've encountered people like this more than a handful of times in my life and it makes me wonder.

my question is, why do you call obsessive mania "aspergy"?

this strikes me as an unhelpful stereotype along the lines of "fundie" or "hippie".