Parents Share 5-Year-Old Son’s Transgender Journey

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: VoidHawk

. . . is the fact that children of two years old (when this all strarted?) have no real sense of self, they are an extention of the parent.

According to who?

So, for a two year old to be saying such things just goes to prove the idea came from the parent!

According to who?

Erik Erikson for one. He would put the "crisis of identity" in early to mid adolescence. That is, that children don't really begin to develop their sense of "self" fully until that age. Up to that point, all is in flux.

He died in 1992. At the age of 91.

A lot has happened since then in the areas of gender understanding.

But he is still a major part of the baseline for childhood development that many in education and child psychology are taught. It's still in there, and to a point, with good reason.

Freud is still in there, at least major elements of Freudian theory, although not to the same extent, and again, with good reason. You can't just throw it out as being of no consequence because it is old.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: VoidHawk

. . . is the fact that children of two years old (when this all strarted?) have no real sense of self, they are an extention of the parent.

According to who?

So, for a two year old to be saying such things just goes to prove the idea came from the parent!

According to who?

Sooo... I guess it depends upon which expert or panel of experts you want to go with. I do think this child is too young to be making this decision. I'm not sure exactly how I would handle the situation, it depends on the child, but I would certainly not be setting anything in stone at that age. I think the parents are being attentive, and responsive but I'm suspicious that there are some pretty intensive... I don't know... Histrionics going on for all, and I do mean all, involved.

What decision is anyone making? Other then letting a child self-identify? Hey! I tracked down a "Brony" shirt for my 7 year old boy.

No drugs are used prior to puberty. Unless for other reasons.

If they have a good counselor who specializes in Gender, how does that hurt?

NOTE: I was trying to find a date on your article. It's really important on this issue that info is as current as you can find.

I don't have an issue with the brony shirt, I'm not sure where you're going with that actually.

I think it's good that they aren't "pushing drugs" and I'd be surprised if they did.

If they have the guidance of a good counselor and of course depending on the child, I don't necessarily think letting them self identify at five is so bad either. I think it would be a rare child that would be able to. I'm only advocating a measured approach. There is evidence both ways.

I don't know why you are so defensive and angry on this.

I wish I could track down a date. I will continue to try.

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: VoidHawk

. . . is the fact that children of two years old (when this all strarted?) have no real sense of self, they are an extention of the parent.

According to who?

So, for a two year old to be saying such things just goes to prove the idea came from the parent!

According to who?

Sooo... I guess it depends upon which expert or panel of experts you want to go with. I do think this child is too young to be making this decision. I'm not sure exactly how I would handle the situation, it depends on the child, but I would certainly not be setting anything in stone at that age. I think the parents are being attentive, and responsive but I'm suspicious that there are some pretty intensive... I don't know... Histrionics going on for all, and I do mean all, involved.

What decision is anyone making? Other then letting a child self-identify? Hey! I tracked down a "Brony" shirt for my 7 year old boy.

No drugs are used prior to puberty. Unless for other reasons.

If they have a good counselor who specializes in Gender, how does that hurt?

NOTE: I was trying to find a date on your article. It's really important on this issue that info is as current as you can find.

I'm only advocating a measured approach. There is evidence both ways.

I've been following this subject for a long time. There are plenty of measures in place for a transgendered child.

I don't know why you are so defensive and angry on this.

If you think you are getting emotions from me, those are actually your emotions.

This is newish science. Gender is no longer black and white (male/female) it is all shades of gray.

It always has been. The difference is acceptance. The more something is accepted, the more it will be revealed.

a reply to: infolurker

I will admit, this thread has opened my eyes on just how sick our society in general has become.

You just proved my point

a reply to: redhorse

If they have the guidance of a good counselor and of course depending on the child, I don't necessarily think letting them self identify at five is so bad either. I think it would be a rare child that would be able to. I'm only advocating a measured approach. There is evidence both ways.

Right. That's exactly what they were doing. You have to remember that the parents in the article never wanted this to happen in the first place. For some reason some people here think they want attention or are nuts. If it is just a phase then why worry at all? Let the child outgrow it. No harm done.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis


Use the whole quote on why that last line is there.

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: VoidHawk

. . . is the fact that children of two years old (when this all strarted?) have no real sense of self, they are an extention of the parent.

According to who?

So, for a two year old to be saying such things just goes to prove the idea came from the parent!

According to who?

Erik Erikson for one. He would put the "crisis of identity" in early to mid adolescence. That is, that children don't really begin to develop their sense of "self" fully until that age. Up to that point, all is in flux.

He died in 1992. At the age of 91.

A lot has happened since then in the areas of gender understanding.

But he is still a major part of the baseline for childhood development that many in education and child psychology are taught. It's still in there, and to a point, with good reason.

Freud is still in there, at least major elements of Freudian theory, although not to the same extent, and again, with good reason. You can't just throw it out as being of no consequence because it is old.

For his time.

I grew up in the 50s when roles were still divided by gender. (Still are to some degree, laws help)

So much in gender knowledge has happened only over the last 20 years

a reply to: infolurker

I made my point - you don't have to like it

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

:-)

Most people like to imagine that children are sexless because they think sex is bad, wrong, evil... (unless you're married of course)

Kids may not know anything about sex - but they're still sexual. It's innate

It's difficult to argue this stuff realistically when everyone assumes that children have no sexual feelings. It all comes together - attraction, desire, identity

All normal - none of it evil

Yes,

If this is the view of society today, I stand by my statement.

This sounds like a statement from the NAMBLA sickos.

a reply to: infolurker

This sounds like a statement from the NAMBLA sickos.

Projecting much? Maybe you need to re-evaluate yourself?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Calling it like it is.

You read that post and tell me what it sounds like.

a reply to: infolurker

I have several times. I see nothing wrong with his post.

Let's just focus on gender identity which has nothing to do with sexual orientation and attraction. It is all about self-identification.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: VoidHawk

. . . is the fact that children of two years old (when this all strarted?) have no real sense of self, they are an extention of the parent.

According to who?

So, for a two year old to be saying such things just goes to prove the idea came from the parent!

According to who?

Sooo... I guess it depends upon which expert or panel of experts you want to go with. I do think this child is too young to be making this decision. I'm not sure exactly how I would handle the situation, it depends on the child, but I would certainly not be setting anything in stone at that age. I think the parents are being attentive, and responsive but I'm suspicious that there are some pretty intensive... I don't know... Histrionics going on for all, and I do mean all, involved.

What decision is anyone making? Other then letting a child self-identify? Hey! I tracked down a "Brony" shirt for my 7 year old boy.

No drugs are used prior to puberty. Unless for other reasons.

If they have a good counselor who specializes in Gender, how does that hurt?

NOTE: I was trying to find a date on your article. It's really important on this issue that info is as current as you can find.

I'm only advocating a measured approach. There is evidence both ways.

I've been following thus subject girl a long time. There are plenty of measures in place for a transgendered child.

I don't know why you are so defensive and angry on this.

If you think you are getting emotions from me, those are actually your emotions.

This is newish science. Gender is no longer black and white (male/female) it is all shades of gray.

It always has been. The difference is acceptance. The more something is accepted, the more it will be revealed.

Sometimes. And sometimes the social impetus can cause confusion on so many levels, and harm.

For the majority of the population, gender is pretty darned black and white and there is a lot of evidence that those identities and at least some of the propensities that go with them (and some of those are rooted in social behavior) have at least a base line in that biology and resulting neurochemistry.

Full disclosure, because it does affect how I see this, I am bisexual and I gender identify as female, because I am. Two x chromosomes, boobs the whole enchilada. My sexual orientation is fluid and so I can get a pretty good gyimpse of how gender identity may not match the physiology or heck, just morphology. I don't have an issue with anyone who identifies as transgender; sometimes, the neurobiology, or the soul, or... something just feels like they are born in the wrong body. It happens.

I do have an issue with people using a child to pursue an agenda. Now, I don't know if that is what is going on here. They are in the midst of this situation, and they may have this kid figured out; certainly more than I (or you for that matter) can tell from here. They may be irresponsible, exploitive jerks for that matter too, but taken at face value, I don't think anyone involved is all that immoral per se.

On the other hand, I've also seen the Diagnosis de jour confuse and hurt people and right now, gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder is... a hot button issue with a lot of attention. I can definitely see a certain breed of mental health professionals trying to make a name for themselves with something publicized and seemingly avant-garde. It happens... A lot. And most of these mental health professionals that get involved in such things are not selfish or even malicious; many of them really do want to help people, but they are... human, with the same foibles of ego as the rest of us.

This child is very young. I do have a hard time "accepting" that this child is cognizant enough to make this decision, and her parents and the mental health professionals should not be making it for her. Caution is warranted. I am skeptical because of her age. That's all I'm saying, I think that is reasonable. At this point, I don't really care if you don't, you are clearly emotionally invested enough in this to blast even the mildest resistance.

I think this is something that people need to accept these days. It's becoming very common.
I work with a young man that is transitioning to a female. He is understanding about being called either a guy or a girl. His name is Ashley. He still looks like a man, but he is thin and has long, flowing hair. He is actually a quite attractive man If I don't say so myself. Nobody at my job (which is a healthcare job) thinks of him as different. In fact, we all casually and comfortably refer to him, not as him, but as "her" or "she." They are a hard worker, fast and efficient, and very nice. There's nothing "weird" about them.

They are the first person I met who is a male transitioning to a female in my life, so it's a new experience for me, and I think it is a non-issue. If anything, it makes me more interested to get to know that person and to make sure they feel as comfortable and accepted as possible, especially in the workplace.

a reply to: redhorse

I do have an issue with people using a child to pursue an agenda.

Oh I am sure there are some people who do that. I don't think that is the case here.

I do have a hard time "accepting" that this child is cognizant enough to make this decision

I don't think it is really a decision. For a child to persist for this long? I kept reminding people here that the parents did not want this in the first place.

Caution is warranted.

Oh yeah I agree. They are being careful no doubt about that. They are trying their best to make the child have a good life and future without problems.

I also think that if a male or female is born and absolutely believes they are the other gender, no doubts about it, that it is acceptable to provide that individual with the proper hormones, therapies, or surgeries they will need to successfully become the gender they feel they were born as.

I think I would be nothing less than torture to deny a person of these drugs if it is a case that they absolutely feel they are the other gender, even if they are a minor. The longer the person waits to have the hormone therapies the more chances there are that they will not develop properly into the desired gender, as most of our growing takes place in adolescence.
I also think it is possible that their brain IS in fact the other gender, but that they were born with the "wrong" body, so to speak. Although I don't have scientific or medical citations to back that up, I think it's possible that some people are mentally wired to be the other gender, but without the body to match.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

And I hope that all is as it appears with the adults involved and the best interests of this child. I really, really do. I have seen things go horribly wrong too many times though. I wish them all the best and I do sincerely hope for a good outcome here.

a reply to: Acatalepsia

I think I would be nothing less than torture to deny a person of these drugs if it is a case that they absolutely feel they are the other gender, even at a very young age.

Not before puberty. I think they should wait until they are adults before making such huge decisions. Just my opinion.

a reply to: redhorse

I agree with your caution. Anything can be exploited.

I don't get that sense with this family.

a reply to: redhorse

I wish them all the best and I do sincerely hope for a good outcome here.

LOL now that's something WE ALL here can agree with!