UFOs Confront Soldiers During War, Says Ex-Air Force Intelligence Officer

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: pteridine

I expect that if things come to a head, a disc will slowly circle DC in broad daylight and hover over the Whitehouse.

I expect you're right, but you're a little late.

A fleet of flying saucers hovered over the whitehouse for two entire weekends in July, 1952.

Where are the photos of this?

Jadestar, if you are asking me to further your education, there is a matter of tuition to discuss.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Picture or it didn't happen sounds like a 1980's argument. Of course, a picture to show something did happen is even more archaic. Tech developments in invisibility are bearing fruit now - making something that was impossible about 20 years ago, increasingly viable.

Generally, almost everyone who has ever asserted that something is impossible is eventually proven wrong.

originally posted by: 3n19m470
It's Hitler and the rest of the Nazis that escaped Germany with most of their technology at the end of WW2 and went to their super ice lair in antarctica. Hitler is still alive, using anti aging technology of course, and he rules the world behind the scenes. If not him, then some other Nazi. Everything else is a sham. With their invincible ufos they can destroy anything, hold any nation hostage, place their own people in power. And orchestrate events to make it appear everything is normal and that the Nazis were defeated.

A Nazi, after the war, said "we had help... from sources not of this world" or something like that.
Hitler said they had super weapons that would help them win the war, and that there was nothing to worry about, even towards tbe very end.
Hitlers body was never found. Kinda reminds me of Osama Bin Laden... no body.
The Nazis sacrificed Germany, pretending to lose, and won the World. They realized it it didn't matter if they lost the battle because, with their technology, they could simply control the world behind the scenes, and the public will just think "aliens" (which some are but appear to be assisting the Nazis or at least allow them to exert their will over the world.

That's why the government will not tell the truth about aliens. They cannot admit that the nazis won WW2. The Nazis themselves will not allow this truth to be told.

I believe there may be other alien factions fighting to control the world, these are aligned with the khazarian zionists who the Nazi aligned aliens are fighting against. It could be that each faction controls certain areas of the world and perhaps the Nazis do not have a complete monopoly on controlling the Earth.

After all, a lot has happened since ww2. Who knows what happened with Operation Highjump? Did they successfully destroy the Nazi base or bases? Or were they scared off by Nazi disc craft technology?

My guess is both competing factions are evil but I have no idea which is preferable. The Nazis want to exterminate all Jews, handicapped, mentally or physically disabled, gay, masons, etc... not sure who else. Zionists want to enslave all goyim, doing with them what they please.

Keep in mind these are all just ramblings of an excessive runaway imagination.

I've often thought about a secret Nazi element as an alternate theory to explain UFO's, as opposed to ET's. Unlike some I'm open to different theories. (But crop circles, cattle mutilations and abductions have me leaning towards ET's)

Anyway, a mod gave a good rebuttal of the Nazi secret group theory recently, seems very reasonable:

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Rocker2013

A major problem about the Nazi-tech hypothesis is that no historians have found evidence of exotic technology. We know about the Hortens and so forth and we know that Western powers thought the early 'Foo Fighters' might have been Nazi secret technology.

We were able to defeat the Nazis and the wreckages of their aircraft have been found across several continents. They were shot down over Africa, Europe and Russia and none of those wrecks suggested anything shy of conventional, expected technology.

The US called 'dibs' on as much Nazi technology and scientists as they could and shipped it all back Stateside. Airframes like the Horten are on display and those scientists played a huge part in the Manhatten Project. So it's fairly accurate to say that the state-of-the-art technology in late 1940s USA was also the very best that the Nazis had managed to invent/develop.

The Soviets played 'finders keepers' with everything East of Checkpoint Charlie and rummaged through the Nazi resources just like the Americans. They too ferried away the scientists and took the technology and blueprints for anything that took their fancy. No saucers, spaceships or time-machines.

Going back to the 'Foo fighters,' these were seen before the Project Paperclip guys were conscripted to the US. Going back further, although 'disc-shaped' isn't so common, UFO sighting reports have occurred for centuries with a few 'discs' mixed in there.

a reply to: Scdfa

But there are no photos from the DC flap of '52 showing genuine UFOs over Washington nor were there thousands of witnesses as you asserted earlier in the thread.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Aquariusdude



Foo fighters were seen sometimes by ENTIRE CREWS..Are you trying to say that the reason these men saw these objects were due to mass hallucination caused by drugs?Really?

Career U.S. Air Force pilot Duane Adams often related that he had witnessed two occurrences of a bright light which paced his aircraft for about half an hour and then rapidly ascended into the sky. Both incidents occurred at night, both over the South Pacific, and both were witnessed by the entire aircraft crew. The first sighting occurred shortly after the end of World War II while Adams piloted a B-25 bomber. The second sighting occurred in the early 1960s when Adams was piloting a KC-135 tanker

War is stressful, people have to be constantly on guard 24/7 which the mind is not really cut out for (it needs a rest). So the chance of misidentification of astronomical or atmospheric phenomena in this heightened state of alert/fatigue goes up.

This was most recently illustrated back in 1999 during the India-Pakistan skirmish over Kashmir called the Kargil War when an Indian anti-aircraft unit opened fire on Venus thinking it was a low flying aircraft avoiding radar, on the horizon.

Let's see, jadestar here started the theory that Viet Nam veterans were too mentally incompetent from drug use to be considered competent witnesses. That theory did not go over well.

Of course, it's an old trick used again and again by debunkers:

If the eyewitness evidence points to aliens, then attack the witnesses!

It works for them, usually, too. This time though, no one was buying it, these were Naval intelligence officers, not kids at a Phish concert. These are highly credible witnesses.

So what does jadestar do?

Accept the credibility of the witnesses? No way, not if it means supporting the case for aliens. She doubles down on denying witness credibility, Vegas-style!

So, when Aquariusdude talks about a sighting by a US Air Force pilot AND his entire crew (reliable witnesses all), here is jadestar telling us why we can't believe a word they say:

War is stressful, people have to be constantly on guard 24/7 which the mind is not really cut out for (it needs a rest). So the chance of misidentification of astronomical or atmospheric phenomena in this heightened state of alert/fatigue goes up.

So this flight crew was on duty 24/7, without a chance to rest their minds? Huh? And war is just too stressful to accurately describe an event?

That darn alert / fatigue!

Watch where you step folks, the fertilizer is fresh.

And what esteemed evidence does she point to to back this up?

This anecdote from 20 years ago where some people on the ground in India shot at Venus:

This was most recently illustrated back in 1999 during the India-Pakistan skirmish over Kashmir called the Kargil War when an Indian anti-aircraft unit opened fire on Venus

Wow. What a meaningless anecdote. And from 1999, yet she calls it the most recent.

You know folks, the people that try so hard to deny the reality of alien contact love to dismiss witnesses testimony as "anecdotal evidence".

But somehow it's okay when they use even the most unrelated, meaningless "anecdotal evidence".

As long as it can be used to weaken the case for alien contact, that is.

Funny, they claim to have science and logic on their side, but they always seem to resort to twisting the truth and relying on anecdotes.

I'm starting to think they don't have much of a case at all.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Scdfa

But there are no photos from the DC flap of '52 showing genuine UFOs over Washington nor were there thousands of witnesses as you asserted earlier in the thread.

Well, this is my lucky day, meeting someone who was in Washington DC in July of 1952!

So, the UFOs hovered over the city on July 19 and July 20, and July 26 and July 27.

What was the total witness count for those four days? You must have evidence that it was under two thousand people.

Just finished reading the entirety; I kind of enjoyed a lot of the push and put going on, especially involving JadeStar!

Your one of my favorite members here JadeStar, love your elaborations of detail in your posts, your well-structured mind, and knowledge base of space!

But there have been very good debating happening here, with out too much emotional flares, which is almost an uncommon thing on ATS anymore

Wether that little boat went down by Aliens in their version of a cockpit, or the military occupants of the boat took it upon eachother for unknown retaliation... or god knows whatever reason - it was over 6 decades ago.

It's not even significant anymore, either is most of the UFO topic and happenings. The fact is, we are breathing TODAY, now, and there is very little UFO and crop circle activity for a while now.

Which makes me think; the progression of UFO came about the progression of human militaries and aerial technology. It's almost parallel on the time line of the last 100+ years.

The TRUE ANSWER about ET and UFO, is WE HAVE NO IDEA. Not one of this keyboard warriors in this thread HONESTLY know anything about this subject nor it's natures.

It's all rhetorical mental exhales of a clueless individual(s). People here, need to grow up now, very fast, and realize what they think they know vs what actually IS the TRUTH, is comparable to religion and gods.

Until we have 100% undeniable evidence of any form, that expose the ET/UFO connection and happenings on/around Earth... we shouldn't be jumping on forums like desperate teenagers firing opinions and non-verified proofs.

Appreciate all who joined this thread to share "their" view, was entertaining thread, but this topic of UFO is nothing but entertainment and profit

a reply to: Elementalist

The TRUE ANSWER about ET and UFO, is WE HAVE NO IDEA. Not one of this keyboard warriors in this thread HONESTLY know anything about this subject nor it's natures.

Speak for yourself, please. Some of us have been aboard these ships.

If its all half truths, hallucinations and lies then why do all Airforce bases have a UFO contingency plan?

originally posted by: USXpat
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Picture or it didn't happen sounds like a 1980's argument. Of course, a picture to show something did happen is even more archaic. Tech developments in invisibility are bearing fruit now - making something that was impossible about 20 years ago, increasingly viable.

Generally, almost everyone who has ever asserted that something is impossible is eventually proven wrong.

Someone said UFOs hovered over the White House for two weeks in 1952.

That's pretty ample photo op time.

Any sane person would ask for a picture of that.

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
If its all half truths, hallucinations and lies then why do all Airforce bases have a UFO contingency plan?

Because a UFO in that context truly means "Unidentified Flying Object" not aliens.

Any unidentified flying object could be an enemy aircraft or drone of unknown type so of course they'd want people on base to report it so as to have some warning of a possible attack or surveillance.

I think it's ridiculous to say they were on drugs if one even remotely read anything further about this case. It just goes to show the knee jerk reaction on the debunker side of the coin opposite the alien side. THat being said, I did try to look further into the case and I just believe it was neither. It just sounds like they came under fire from helicopters being used by the Vietnamese. I think the common knowledge at the time was that they did not have any helicopters but I learned that they did use Russian-built M-14 ‘Hound’ helicopters and I think that seems to be the best explanation. It sounded to me like that came under conventional fire and it just doesn't make sense to think it was any type of UFO firing them. They weren't described as lasers or anything not like that would make sense either. Also the objects were describe as hovering at 100 feet and when you look at the M-14's it does look like the cockpit is situated where the pilots would be side by side. So, in my opinion, they just could not confirm what fired upon them leaving it officially unknown.

www.gunplot.net...

originally posted by: Elementalist
The TRUE ANSWER about ET and UFO, is WE HAVE NO IDEA. Not one of this keyboard warriors in this thread HONESTLY know anything about this subject nor it's natures.

This is one thing I'd hope most people could agree on. The problem I see often is that the American UFO scene (and it is primarily the American UFO crowd which does this) has whole narratives involving species of aliens, secret bases, treaties, and stuff which reads like a 1950s pulp sci-fi story but they believe it is all true with no real evidence to do so.

On the other side there are those who for whatever reason reject the whole idea of extraterrestrial life in general. These people usually have a religious or other dogmatic reason for believing the Earth is special and the humanity is special so they reject any ideas of life in the universe on those grounds.

Both groups are vocal but small compared to a larger group which is in the middle but often is quiet during these discussions.

I'd think most people, and certainly most people on ATS accept that there is probably plenty of other life in the universe, and there may even be plenty of intelligent life in the universe but the jury is still out on whether any of it has been to our solar system and planet Earth.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
If its all half truths, hallucinations and lies then why do all Airforce bases have a UFO contingency plan?

Because a UFO in that context truly means "Unidentified Flying Object" not aliens.

Any unidentified flying object could be an enemy aircraft or drone of unknown type so of course they'd want people on base to report it so as to have some warning.

And you need it in a sealed box with report protocols in a sealed orange envelope with a direct line to report a drone do you?

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
Does the name Wernher Van Braun ring a bell?

At the height of WW2, there were reports of foo fighters after Braun developed the V2, and after he was poached by the US, there were reports of UFO's. coincidence?

Those pilots in 'nam didn't know of OXCART or the USAF's equivalent model, just like the SS had no knowledge of the V2 or like the Iraqis had no knowledge of the Nighthawk. I believe that most of these UFO's were just advanced aircraft, and I can also understand why soldiers or pilots would be spooked-they were kept in the dark for a reason.

Yes, most likely just coincidence. You have to remember that flying saucers were widely seen as early as the 1920s here in the US

In fact some of the best photo evidence for flying saucers comes from the 1920s, because it was easier to determine the veracity of a photograph.

Your source for this?

My source? What do you want jade, a website?

Yes, please.

Do you have a problem with the authenticity of flying disc photographs from the 1920s?

I don't if their authenticity checked out. I just had a problem with you saying there was this widespread wave of flying saucer sightings in the 1920s. I have read a lot on the subject but that was news to me so please, cite your sources.

Or do you just have a problem with the reality of alien contact?

Not at all. I hope someday we will make contact. It's part of why I study what I do but I do have a problem with extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence.

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: JadeStar

I'd like that.

Clearly you and I have an affinity for that movie. As I said, I saw it when I was was 7 years old (it came out when I was just 2) and it made a huge impression on me.

I know the feeling. I was 7 when my dad took me to see Star Wars IV. Now here I am, an adult with dozens of veridical psychic experiences under his belt, and an expert in the field of comparative religion, which, through the work of Joseph Campbell, inspired Lucas. I'm as close to a real life Jedi as you are ever likely to talk to. And you, in turn, are about as close to a real life Ellie as I am ever likely to talk to. Needless to say, I'm honored to exchange words with you.

I don't expect to change your mind about anything. The best I could hope to do for you is draw your attention to an undiscovered country that you might want to explore someday. If you do, remember that book. And these.

www.amazon.com...
www.amazon.com...
www.amazon.com...

👣

You know, I may actually have a look at some of those. I'm just finishing up the last of the 3 books Stanton T. Friedman sent me:





People like "Scdfa" often charge that people like me "won't look at the evidence" or won't read this or that UFO book, but that's simply not the case. I've read a ton of such books and when Mr. Friedman saw my work into the Betty Hill Starmap he and I got into a nice polite email exchange where we challenged each other and he offered to send me several of his books (Flying Saucers and Science, Captured! and Top Secret/Majic which are pictured above).

I'm just finishing Top Secret/Majic right now actually.

People like "Scdfa" don't realize that I can have a regular conversation with someone like Stanton Friedman, Micah Hanks, Seth Shostak, Sara Seager or Jill Tarter and even though I'm just some ambitious undergrad they've treated me as a peer and our conversations were always intellectually stimulating, never heated.

I have no problem talking with people like Mr. Friedman and studying with people who work with NASA who view the whole subject as a joke. I have an open mind but it is a skeptical one.

I wish people like Scdfa could be a bit more like that. It's not a zero-sum thing. We can agree to disagree on some things while agreeing on others and I am always open to learning something knew, which is why often I ask the questions that I do. My dad told me the only stupid question was the one not asked when seeking new information.

From the perspective of the larger picture, if or when we do actually make contact or simply discover we're in a populated galaxy there will be lots more people who read books like the ones you brought to my attention than people who've cracked open an astronomy or evolutionary biology textbook.

Most of the people I study with and worked with at the university or at a program for astrobiology students which NASA put together run as far from the UFO subject as possible. There's a perception (and rightfully so) that it is full of people who lack scientific rigor and who only serve to damage the credibility of those who are in a field (Astronomy/Astrobiology/SETI) which so much of the public confuses with UFOlogy:




In other words, most of the public (at least here in the US) may see the whole idea of alien contact when we -REALLY- make it, through the lenses of the UFOs/Sci-Fi Aliens/Paranormal "fields" rather than through fields like astronomy and astrobiology.

In that context it makes sense that I become familiar with even the fringe elements of this stuff so as to be able to rationally deal with people who may try to cease upon such a momentous discovery to use it to further their new psuedo-religion or give credibility to their doom porn mongering/crisis profiteering.

The day after first contact will be filled with tons of questions for those of us in the sciences, questions we won't readily have answers to without further data.

And we all known that mainstream media/pop culture abhors a vacuum so in the place of us saying "we don't know" there will be people from the UFO/Paranormal crowd who will profess to have all the answers.

Better for me to stay aware of what nonsense they may try to peddle to the uneducated than to ignore them outright.

Also I'm into this stuff from having had a conversation with Dr Peter Sturrock who feels there should be a constant dialog between the UFO crowd and the astronomy/astrobiology crowd.

originally posted by: USXpat
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Picture or it didn't happen sounds like a 1980's argument.

I didn't say picture or it "didn't happen" though, I said picture or "I'm not interested".

I was referring to the news article this whole threads based on, which is essentially just a plug for one of those UFO shows on the history channel. I'm just so bored of watching endless over dramatized reenactments of reported UFO sightings.

Without footage or a photograph (that can at least be studied for authenticity) to accompany one of these UFO sightings or alien contact claims (which there never seems to be) then it's just pure conjecture.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
Does the name Wernher Van Braun ring a bell?

At the height of WW2, there were reports of foo fighters after Braun developed the V2, and after he was poached by the US, there were reports of UFO's. coincidence?

Those pilots in 'nam didn't know of OXCART or the USAF's equivalent model, just like the SS had no knowledge of the V2 or like the Iraqis had no knowledge of the Nighthawk. I believe that most of these UFO's were just advanced aircraft, and I can also understand why soldiers or pilots would be spooked-they were kept in the dark for a reason.

Yes, most likely just coincidence. You have to remember that flying saucers were widely seen as early as the 1920s here in the US

In fact some of the best photo evidence for flying saucers comes from the 1920s, because it was easier to determine the veracity of a photograph.

Your source for this?

My source? What do you want jade, a website?

Yes, please.

Students of your age may have trouble grasping this concept, but there was an age of man before websites. I managed to learn a great deal before they got around to creating websites.

Do you have a problem with the authenticity of flying disc photographs from the 1920s?

I don't if their authenticity checked out. I just had a problem with you saying there was this widespread wave of flying saucer sightings in the 1920s. I have read a lot on the subject but that was news to me so please, cite your sources.

Widespread wave? That's not exactly what I said, jadestar. But I guess you haven't read as much as you thought. Maybe instead of fighting people like me you should try learning from people like me?

There are at least a hundred reported sightings from the 1920s, that is from 1920-1929, and many alien contact reports, too. Not all the reports are American, surprisingly, but they largely fell into the same template we know today. Not all the sightings were of disc shaped craft, and I doubt the term "flying saucer" was used at that early date, but they were describing an extremely similar craft:

" a silvery object, two hemispheres divided by a rotating ring."

“flying manhole covers.”

"“round like an inverted soup plate,” sped overhead emitting rays of light which illuminated the ground and startled cattle. (North Dakota, 1928. source - NICAP UFO Evidence

I understand this information really damages the case of UFOs just being govt black ops. But there it is.

a reply to: JadeStar

I have an open mind but it is a skeptical one.

I wish people like Scdfa could be a bit more like that.

I'm not sure what jadestar wants from me.

What does she want me to do?

She knows full well that I was one of those abducted by aliens. Since 1966. I did not ask for it. I did not want it. Sometimes I resisted as best I could.

I never had the luxury of choosing to "believe" or not believe in aliens. The choice was made for me.

Jadestar doesn't believe me, and she sure refuses to take my situation seriously, much the way society used to treat other victims of assault, not all that long ago.

So here she berates me for not being more open minded? And more skeptical? About what?

Does she want me to seriously consider her position, which is that aliens are not here, and have never abducted people?

Does she want me to conclude that I was never really abducted?

Does she want me to stop my efforts to raise awareness of a very real situation?

Does she realize how deeply offensive that is?

You see folks,she wants first contact with aliens to belong to her and other astronomers, the only ones really worthy of the honor:

The day after first contact will be filled with tons of questions for those of us in the sciences, questions we won't readily have answers to without further data.

Yes, she will keep people like me away, guarding first contact from:

the fringe elements of this stuff so as to be able to rationally deal with people who may try to cease upon such a momentous discovery to use it to further their new psuedo-religion.

Actually jade means, "try to seize upon such a momentous discovery", but, anyway.

Here she is, warning everybody about people like me:

there will be people from the UFO/Paranormal crowd who will profess to have all the answers.

Better for me to stay aware of what nonsense they may try to peddle to the uneducated than to ignore them outright.

God bless you, Jade, for protecting the uneducated from the nonsense I'm peddling.

Unfortunately, the nonsense I'm peddling happens to be true.

So who will protect the uneducated and the educated alike from the nonsense you're peddling?


Jadestar, I hate to disappoint a college girl, but first contact has been happening for a very long time now, on a smaller scale than you have considered.

Scdfa dont worry , in my experience its ok to be skeptical, problem is science has become like religion some time ago, if it doesnt compute then its discarded like a joke , nut, delusional or creazy, at least its better that than been burn alive like in the inquisition.

Nasa takes very siriously UFO´'s the higher ups in the know, but they need to put the other face around, why? because thats their job, so the rest follows it. Now do i say science is a bad thing? no actually makes things better, if not we still would be living in a world that was the center of the universe today.

I have seen UFO and ET too, and by the way i am avid amateur astronomer (have my own telescope and ccd cams), the two can coexist if people open more their minds. But been on the extrems of the spectrum (UFO nut or Science nut, no middle ground) just make things worse in my experience.