The future of Europe and the USA

a reply to: Jonjonj

Is there any example IN RECENT history where Americans didnt put their asses in the way of bullets for ALL western interests?

Did you REALLY use the first world war as your example? Europe is ALWAYS neutral where possible in our military efforts.

Hell, only the UK and Australia can be counted on to be there getting shot at with our guys no matter what....

This is silly. You really think that if there is an all out war that we will SUDDENLY and completely out of character, just practice ISOLATIONISM?

If you do then fine. I dont even know how to address this nonsense. WW1 for crying out loud.

We didnt even have a freaking army worth a damn during WW1, at least not one that was any better than a south American nation. We were an agricultural nation with like 12 tanks....or something insane like that. LOL

EDIT TO ADD:
I dont know about everyone else, but if anyone touches our cousins in the UK there will be hell to pay. In an all out war even my useless ass would join up. You can bet that in a situation of all out war in Europe that our real warriors would be there in a heart beat. The idiots like me would be there too. There is no way in hell we wouldnt.

a reply to: pfishy

No'me and my boys would fight because we are fighting for our home and for our children's home and life, but no way would i be fighting for queen and country or government I would be fighting for Country and friend family and neighbours only not the daft fckers who got us into the mess in the first place, George Orwell could not believe after the war that people went back into the the old roles of master and servant.

We are being ruled by idiots' Russia would perhaps beat us but I would not surrender like the french and the rest of europe did to the Nazis, if we get invaded then we know the place which is a great advantage.

a reply to: pfishy

No'me and my boys would fight because we are fighting for our home and for our children's home and life, but no way would i be fighting for queen and country or government I would be fighting for Country and friend family and neighbours only not the daft fckers who got us into the mess in the first place, George Orwell could not believe after the war that people went back into the the old roles of master and servant.

We are being ruled by idiots' Russia would perhaps beat us but I would not surrender like the french and the rest of europe did to the Nazis, if we get invaded then we know the place which is a great advantage.

a reply to: pavmas

It really shouldn't have shocked old George so much. It is natural after what England went through to turn back to established ways to attempt to gain a sense of normalcy. The entire nation was traumatized, and needed comfort. Right or wrong, routine brings a feeling of normalcy and comfort.
Have you ever seen "The Shawshank Redemption "?
Towards the end, after Red is paroled, he considers robbing someone to go back to jail. Because he was institutionalized. He wasn't comfortable with freedom any longer. That's actually a pretty common problem with inmates that have served decades-long sentences. They don't know how to handle the possibilities of freedom. So they repeat-offend to go back to where they know how to function. Even if it is prison. Sort of the same occurrence after a society is devastated by war. Even if it's not the best system, they turn to it because it's familiar and comfortable.

a reply to: pavmas

It has to be said' I'M British so Im entitled to moan' if you can't moan then whats the point of being British, we are taught to moan before we walk and if the right to moan is removed then there is nothing worth fighting for, could you imagine our weather without moaning about it, when I meet someone who does not moan I say where do you come from not here thats for sure.

Shhhhaaaaaa....I'm sorry, but we're a little more corporate than in the past. I'm afraid it's more of a fiscally driven situation these days. Power or resource control is considered acceptable payment as well. I'm sure you understand.

Thanks for shopping!

a reply to: pfishy

I'll tell you this much Cameron has cut our Arm forces to the bone we are an island with little navy, we are building aircraft carriers and have no planes and then this idiot Cameron wants to start on Putin, if he thinks the other nations would back us up he just need to look at the history books. The guy is an idiot and power has went to his head, I don't trust the French the Germans or the Yanks, I was in France during the Falkands war and was fighting them nearly every night' I started a riot in Lourdes' The French were seeling missiles to the Argies and they wanted them to win, When our Government learns to trust no one then they will have my backing.

a reply to: pavmas

I trust the French to make good wine and excellent cheese. I trust the Germans to do whatever the heck they're going to do in an efficient manner. I trust America as a political entity to waver, sit on their hands talk a lot until they realize (several months behind her citizens and the rest of the planet) that they have to act, and to do so as slowly as possible until they think they look bad.

a reply to: Jonjonj

Calm down guys and gals the time to see who fights and who doesn't is closing fast.but for the record I'd fight and die for my brothers and sisters across the pond , I'd wager serious money practically any American would not to fear if your dieing we are dieing too.

a reply to: pfishy

I think we have technology that is advanced so would not need a standing army. I f we look back at 1997 John Major had an argument with the yanks and threatened to go to war with them, he said he would put a curtain across the Atlantic' I assumed at the time that is was our nuke subs but then there must have been more. The yanks backed down in the argument but Major used these words. You know Im serious.

So what tech did the UK have in 1997 that made the yanks back off

originally posted by: pavmas
a reply to: pfishy

I think we have technology that is advanced so would not need a standing army. I f we look back at 1997 John Major had an argument with the yanks and threatened to go to war with them, he said he would put a curtain across the Atlantic' I assumed at the time that is was our nuke subs but then there must have been more. The yanks backed down in the argument but Major used these words. You know Im serious.

So what tech did the UK have in 1997 that made the yanks back off

I doubt it was a terribly advanced technology. More than likely is was just both nations realizing how incredibly stupid a conflict would be. And nuclear ballistic missile subs, or even fast attack subs, make a pretty substantial curtain.
This was more like two brothers in a fight and one pulls a gun. Not a Star Trek phaser, just a good old .38 special. It's the threat of escalating the conflict to the point of irreparable damage that quited both sides down.
Also, if I recall, the British had just deployed new naval antiship and antiaircraft missles. So they were flexing the threat of now-outdated tech. But honestly, it would have been a seriously one-sided conflict had it occurred. We had both the F-117 and the B-2 in service then. We would have wiped out Britain's new toys and knocked them around a bit for good measure.

a reply to: Jonjonj

are you trying to say that you were against appeasement in WW2?

By use of the term "were" do you think I was alive then?

No..., what I'm saying is I am against appeasement anytime that tactic is used.

You also seem to have a limited knowledge of World War II.

a reply to: Jonjonj

The entire western world would expolde diplomatically Russia would be blockaded and completely drained DRY of money.
What will UK do if the US get's into a fight with Iran?
WE WILL NOT let them have nukes,once it's detected see the above.

I will take my chances with the enemy.

When the Brits fired their guns, the Germans ducked.
When the Germans fired their guns, the Brits ducked.

When the yanks fired their guns, everybody ducked.

a reply to: pfishy

Major was getting some serious stick from the media calling him the grey man etc, this guy was serious, which made me think at the time we have something the people don't know about, it could explain a lot such as reducing our standing troops etc.

a reply to: pavmas

I would have to know what you black budget is ..compatatively and THAT would be "D" notice.

We will be there as best as we can. The current admin has really tied us down with the isolationism views.They have cut our military so much , i doubt if we could hold off an invasion of mosquitoes . And it seems as if they are trying to make friends with our enemies , and enemies of our closest allies....Senseless...

originally posted by: here4this
We will be there as best as we can. The current admin has really tied us down with the isolationism views.They have cut our military so much , i doubt if we could hold off an invasion of mosquitoes . And it seems as if they are trying to make friends with our enemies , and enemies of our closest allies....Senseless...

Just like WW2 eh. Took your bloody time.

I guess I'm confused as to why you think the US has a responsibility to take care of the UK in the event they have some military problem...While I do tend to agree that if a nation is really a friend to another nation, they should without a doubt help them IF THEY CAN, but to me the need for others to solve our problems ( whether its a person, business, country, whatever ) is one of the core problems everyone is facing in this world today...

Problems usually only become problems to these entities when they fail to act responsibly. Its always someone else's problem. It someone else's fault X lives irresponsibly and can't pay the bills , that X didn't go to college and now X hs no prospects, excuse, excuse, excuse...personally the mentality of " someone else needs to fix my problems and i should just get to sit back " gets real old, real quick.....

a reply to: Jonjonj

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: Jonjonj

Your quote shows nothing of the actual historical events that occurred during the time frame in which you speak. First. It was the sinking of the Lusitania by Germany that brought the USA into ww1. Do you understand why they sunk her? she was carrying weapons and supplies to England and france. Actually we were doing that for quite some time before we entered the war, never mind the fact that americans volunteered into the british as well as French armies to fight for you Europeans. That's beside the point.

Next, You ever wonder why the Japanese attacked pearl Harbor? well I'll tell you, because the French, English, Dutch, and Danish Pacific Fleets had a blockade on mainland japan, hurting there war effort in China and mainland Asia. Those fleets fought against an enemy conquering there colonies, even though there homelands had already been defeated. Do you know where they were based out of? Ya, Pearl Harbor, The Japanese attacked to not only cripple the USA and knock us quickly out of WW2, but to destroy the base of operations to the ships blockading them, which allowed natural resources to surge into the country and spur the war effort on. Unfortunately the Japanese lost too many air craft carriers and after that was forced to a defensive war, which ultimately they knew they couldn't maintain, as there generals knew that the longer the USA was in the war, the harder it would be for them to win. Thing is, you again forget, there was American airmen in Europe fighting with the Brits, and French, there was American Naval men putting there life on the line to resupply war ships that were fighting on, and it was 3000 americans that died at Pearl Harbor because while we were sick and tired of war, it was our factories spurning out planes, tanks, and guns, that kept hitler out of Moscow, as well as kept Japan out of Australia. Further, after pearl harbor, we mobilized and fought hard to defend a free Europe.

This is why NATO was formed, This is why you have American soldiers in just about every NATO country, albeit a small contingent in some, but in all of them. This is why the U.S.A. has 30,000 men stationed on the border with North Korea, even though there life expectancy is literally 30 seconds if North Korea ever decided to use its 1.5 million artillery pieces it has aimed at them and seoul. You think America is just going to watch American soldiers die and withdraw before we even got into a fight? Then you sir, are a %*&^ing idiot. We might think the brits are uppity, and the French idiots, but you know what, your OUR UPPITY COUSINS, and IDIOT uncles. Put simply your family, yes we might be cowboys with a hero complex, arrogant, egotistically, unclean, unshaven brutes with no sophistication, but it wont stop us from putting our beer down, and whooping anyones ass the messes with our family.

Will things change in the future? Absolutely, but nothing will ever change the core alliance that the U.S. has with Japan, South Korea, and all our NATO allies. PS, don't forget you Aussies and NZ either. Your one of us.

Cheers,

Camain
Proud American

G.day mate
i dont know where you got your history from but your a bit off
would you please go back and check the disposition of
French
British
American
Dutch and maybe

Australian and


New zealand naval assets in the pacific in 1941.
and as for the Danish fleet/ navy what boodly navy where in the pacific when.
then also look up when the American oil embargo actually started as opposed to when the Americans stopped spare parts deliveries and check out the diplomatic letters between the U.S. and the Japanese govt. concerning American demands on the withdrawal of all Japanese forces from all of china
good luck
its out there to find and read
i am rather surprised that ZAPPER (ZAPHOD58) has not put you right
good luck bloke

as for the original quest. i figure the average yank pom kiwi aussie and canack would chip in for with each other
its our govts. that are the stumbling stones.
the poor bloody yanks have a prob. they have so many troop displacements all over the globe, bringing all their forces to the party quick time could be a big prob
infact the policy of a little everywhere seems to be a set up for disaster and we have seen where the stars and strips have reported that there have been on occasion more foreign troops in continental USA THAN NATIONAL TROOPS
NOT GOOD when you look at the policies of your fed govt and their consorting against you the the great never able to bring peace to anyone anywhere U. BLOODLY N.