Is there evidence that Jesus Christ existed? Yes, there is.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: StalkerSolent

whether or not he committed miracles

He 'committed' miracles?

LOL. Thanks for that.

Well, if the scriptures are correct, which is what the debate is about but I won't go into at the moment, he did get in trouble for doing good deeds on a Sabbath..

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: StalkerSolent

whether or not he committed miracles

He 'committed' miracles?

LOL. Thanks for that.

Hahahaha!
That charge would have made the trial so much better, no?

I have seen some members in here claim, like in other threads, that the story of Jesus has been taken from more ancient accounts. Just to prove that this claim is wrong here is the response i gave on another thread when a member claimed that Jesus' story was plagiarized from Horus' myth.

Here was the evidence provided by the member making the claim.



Here was my response.

Not really. just because someone makes a graphic image and claims Jesus' story is the same as Horus doesn't make it so.

Isis, the mother of Horus wasn't impregnated as a virgin. She was according to Egyptian texts married to another god. Her husband, Osiris, was dismembered. isis was able to use "her powers" and put together most of Osiris except his "phallus" (male organ). Isis fashioned a golden phallus and was then impregnated. If she needed the golden phallus to be impregnated by Horus then it wasn't a "virgin birth".

Horus was the Sun god and the god of war. Jesus wasn't going around with a sword hacking people left and right in wars, but Horus was. Not to mention that there are many variations of the story of Horus. BTW, just as a side note and a fun fact, the name "the book of the dead" was given to these "books" because they were all found with mummies.

Then there is the fact that there are Roman records that do prove Jesus Christ did exist, that he was tortured and crucified under order of Pontius Pilate, and Christianity was named after him. Despite mythicists claiming there is no evidence, all they are doing is denying the evidence that has been found.

In Egyptian mythology there was no "Anup the baptizer". This was a concoction made by Gerald Massey in the 19th century. Anup is the Indian name for Anubis. Anubis was another god associated with mummification and the afterlife.

Also, Horus did not heal the sick. This story is another concoction from what the Egyptian texts actually say. Horus was poisoned and killed by Seth, and Isis requests the god Thoth that her son Horus be brought to life. (It wasn't even Horus the one that supposedly did the resurrection, it was another god Thoth who resurrected Horus)

The ancient Egyptians used the "spell" that brought Horus to life to "try to cure people". This spell is written in the monument Metternich Stella of the 4th century B.C. The belief was that the spirit of Horus would dwell within the sick.


That is a far cry from Jesus performing miracles and curing people.

As for Asar translating to Lazarus? Osiris is a Greek transliteration of Asar, which is an Egyptian name. It was the god Thoth who raised Asar/Osiris, the husband of Isis. Asar does not translate to "Lazarus" or to it's Hebrew word/meaning Eleazar. (Again it wasn't Horus who did the resurrection, it was Thoth)

As for the claim that Horus was crucified? Show me proof from an ancient Egyptian text that says this. All that mythicists use is an image of Horus with arms spread out and this to them is proof of a crucifixion, which is not true.

The claim that he had twelve disciples once again comes from Gerald Massey, but there are no ancient Egyptian texts that say he had twelve followers. There are myths of Horus that mention of four sons, or six demi-gods who followed him (some sources even say 16 human followers). But there is no actual proof that he had twelve disciples. Massey uses a mural which has the inscription "the twelve who reap the harvest", but there is no mention of Horus in that mural.

So no, Jesus' story wasn't plagiarized from Horus' (myth).

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Isis, the mother of Horus wasn't impregnated as a virgin.

Yes. Isis is a perpetual virgin. She immaculately conceived Horus, the Light of the World.

All this is really for another thread, though, and has nothing to do with the historicity with Jesus of Nazareth, but is comparative mythology of the "Christ" myth. Two different subjects.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

But, dude.
The story of Jesus is plagiarized.

I'm sorry this is so upsetting for you, though.

a reply to: StalkerSolent

Hahahaha!
That charge would have made the trial so much better, no?

Oh, hell yes!!!

a reply to: windword

No...she needed the phallus (penis) to get impregnated... Do you know what happens to virgins when a penis is used to impregnate them?...

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

lol, again prove it, and please do not post from that website by Acharya, she couldn't be more wrong even if she tried to. Acharya, just like most mythicists, makes claims which cannot be corroborated by historical evidence/ancient texts.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

No. Isis needed a phallus to make a memorial for that particular body part. She constructed memorials everywhere one of Osiris' body parts were found.

She was impregnated after the spirit of Osiris was captured by a hawk, kinda like the Holy Spirit that impregnated Mary was supposedly a dove, in a ritual conducted by Thoth.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

lol, again prove it, and please do not post from that website by Acharya, she couldn't be more wrong even if she tried to. Acharya, just like most mythicists, makes claims which cannot be corroborated by historical evidence/ancient texts.

Prove it!

originally posted by: windword
...
All this is really for another thread, though, and has nothing to do with the historicity with Jesus of Nazareth, but is comparative mythology of the "Christ" myth. Two different subjects.

BTW, part of the claim that Jesus' story is a myth comes from the claim that his story was plagiarized from myths written earlier, but this is not true.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

lol, again prove it, and please do not post from that website by Acharya, she couldn't be more wrong even if she tried to.

I haven't posted anything by Acharya....
but this statement (mandate, above) of yours makes me want to say:

"lol, again prove it, and please do not post from that book The Bible, it couldn't be more wrong even if it tried to."

eh?
Easy peasy.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

BTW, part of the claim that Jesus' story is a myth comes from the claim that his story was plagiarized from myths written earlier, but this is not true.

sigh

*facepalm*

sigh

Yes, Luis, it's true.
Sorry.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: windword
...
All this is really for another thread, though, and has nothing to do with the historicity with Jesus of Nazareth, but is comparative mythology of the "Christ" myth. Two different subjects.

BTW, part of the claim that Jesus' story is a myth comes from the claim that his story was plagiarized from myths written earlier, but this is not true.

Yeah. Jesus Christ most certainly is a composite figure made up of many mythical characters and possibly a few real people too.

Prove that that's not true! You can't!

a reply to: windword

Do you care to provide evidence, actual evidence and not claims from mythicists please, that she just "restored her husband/brother's body as a memorial?... Because all the actual accounts state that she needed the phallus to posthumously conceive Horus.

originally posted by: windword

Yeah. Jesus Christ most certainly is a composite figure made up of many mythical characters and possibly a few real people too.

Prove that that's not true! You can't!

I did...the evidence has been shown here...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

LOL! Do you believe that Isis made a dildo and masturbated to get pregnant, therefore, she wasn't a virgin? Are you thinking she's some cosmic "pole dancer" getting her rocks off on Obelisks? Isis IS the proverbial perpetual virgin!

I did...the evidence has been shown here...

Where's here? This thread does nothing to prove that Jesus Christ isn't a composite figure based on previous mythological figures.

a reply to: windword

I am not the one making false conclusions, you are. I have stated exactly how it is described that she conceived Horus. Nowhere do the Egyptian texts state that she restored her husband's body and needed his phallus(penis) only as a monument. The story is that she needed the phallus(penis and body of her husband) to posthumously conceive Horus... I am not making any of this up, you are the one making up claims.

As for you, and other mythicists not accepting the evidence which is accepted by most scholars as being authentic, including most atheist scholars about Jesus being a historical figure... That just shows the level of denial from mythicists who can't for the life of them accept anything that disproves their "claims" based on their "belief".

It is ironic that mythicists mock Christian belief in Jesus which is backed by ancient texts, when the claims from mythicists relies only on their own "belief" and no proof at all.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
...
"lol, again prove it, and please do not post from that book The Bible, it couldn't be more wrong even if it tried to."

eh?
Easy peasy.

LOL, I haven't posted anything from the bible in here. I have posted what Roman pagan historians, and others wrote. including the Talmud.

BTW, that reminds me of another claim made by mythicists. The claim that the Talmud is mentioning some other Jesus because they state he was "hanged".

The fact is that Jewish law did not permit crucifixion, because it was seen by the Jews as the most horrible death. Even though they played a part in Jesus being tortured and crucified, it wasn't their decision as to how Jesus was going to be put to death. It was the Romans and their law which called for the capital punishment of crucifixion which was used.

Since it was against their own law to crucify Jesus, they wrote instead that he was hanged, meanwhile Roman pagan historical texts state he was crucified.

This is similar to the symbolic gesture that Pilate made by washing his hands to state that it wasn't his decision to put him to death, but according to the Roman law if found guilty then Jesus had to be crucified.

The Jewish mention of Jesus being "hanged" is similar to Pilate's gesture of washing his hands. They tried to clear their conscious of what they partook in.

CRUCIFIXION:

The act of putting to death by nailing or binding to a cross. Among the modes of Capital Punishment known to the Jewish penal law, crucifixion is not found; the "hanging" of criminals "on a tree," mentioned in Deut. xxi. 22, was resorted to in New Testament times only after lapidation (Sanh. vi. 4; Sifre, ii. 221, ed. Friedmann, Vienna, 1864). A Jewish court could not have passed a sentence of death by crucifixion without violating the Jewish law. The Roman penal code recognized this cruel penalty from remote times (Aurelius Victor Cæsar, 41). It may have developed out of the primitive custom of "hanging" ("arbori suspendere") on the "arbor infelix," which was dedicated to the gods of the nether world. Seneca ("Epistola," 101) still calls the cross "infelix lignum." Trees were often used for crucifying convicts (Tertullian, "Apologia," viii. 16). Originally only slaves were crucified; hence "death on the cross" and "supplicium servile" were used indiscriminately (Tacitus, "Historia," iv. 3, 11). Later, provincial freedmen of obscure station ("humiles") were added to the class liable to this sentence. Roman citizens were exempt under all circumstances (Cicero, "Verr." i. 7; iii. 2, 24, 26; iv. 10 et seq.). The following crimes entailed this penalty: piracy, highway robbery, assassination, forgery, false testimony, mutiny, high treason, rebellion (see Pauly-Wissowa, "Real-Encyc." s.v. "Crux"; Josephus, "B. J." v. 11, § 1). Soldiers that deserted to the enemy and slaves who denounced their masters ("delatio domini")were also punished by death on the cross.
...

www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The story is that she needed the phallus(penis and body of her husband) to posthumously conceive Horus... I am not making any of this up, you are the one making up claims.

Do you have a primary source for this?


The Tablet of Isis

Here's an image from the Temple of Isis that depicts the conception of Horus. Isis is hovering above in the form of a hawk. There's no phallus involved in the ritual.



Then there's the Saitic Isis, by Plato where Plato reiterates the claim. archive.org...

“I, Isis, am all that has been, that is or shall be; no mortal man hath ever me unveiled. The fruit which I have brought forth is the sun." [/b ]

Only Isis, blessed Isis, remembered us. Only she was unafraid of Set. She searched all of the Nile for the box containing her beloved husband. Finally she found it, lodged in a tamarisk bush that had turned into a mighty tree, for the power of Osiris still was in him, though he lay dead. She tore open the box and wept over the lifeless body of Osiris. She carried the box back to Egypt and placed it in the house of the gods.

She changed herself into a bird and flew about his body, singing a song of mourning. Then she perched upon him and cast a spell. The spirit of dead Osiris entered her and she did conceive and bear a son whose destiny it would be to avenge his father. She called the child Horus, and hid him on an island far away from the gaze of his uncle Set.

Anubis sewed the pieces back together, washed the entrails of Osiris, embalmed him wrapped him in linen, and cast the Ritual of Life. When Osiris' mouth was opened, his spirit reentered him and he lived again.

Yet nothing that has died, not even a god, may dwell in the land of the living. Osiris went to Duat, the abode of the dead. Anubis yielded the throne to him and he became the lord of the dead. There he stands in judgment over the souls of the dead. He commends the just to the Blessed Land, but the wicked he condemns to be devoured by Ammit.

Hmm. Isn't that what Jesus supposedly did?

Hymn to Osiris

Thy sister protected thee, and she drove away thy foes, and she warded off from thee evil hap, and uttered the words of power with all the skill of her mouth; her tongue was trained, and she committed no fault of utterance, and she made [her decree and [her words to have effect, Isis, the mighty one, the avenger of her brother. She sought thee without weariness, she went round about through this land in sorrow, and she set not to the ground her foot until she had found thee. She made light with her feathers, she made air to come into being with her wings, and she uttered cries of lamentation at the bier of her brother. 16. She stirred up from his state of inactivity him whose heart was still (i.e., Osiris), she drew from him his seed, she made an heir, she suckled the babe in solitariness, and the place wherein she reared him is unknown, and his hand is mighty within the house of Seb. The company of the gods rejoice and are glad at the coming of Horus, the son of Osiris, who heart is established, and whose word taketh effect, the son of Isis and the heir of Osiris.

"The miraculous birth of Jesus could be viewed as analogous to that of Horus, whom Isis conceived posthumously from Osiris, and Mary was closely connected with Isis by many other shared characteristics."

- Dr. Erik Hornung, The Secret Lore of Egypt, 75



"The Egyptian goddess who was equally ‘the Great Virgin’ (hwnt) and ‘Mother of the God’ was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."

- Dr. R.E. Witt, Isis in the Ancient World, 273



"...the resemblances between Isis and the Virgin Mary are far too close and numerous to be accidental. There can, in fact, be no question that the Isiac cult was a profound influence on other religions, not least Christianity ... [Isis] was the sacred embodiment of motherhood, yet was known as the Great Virgin, an apparent contradiction that will be familiar to Christians."

- Dr. James Curl, The Egyptian Revival, 12-13