Take YOUR Kid Out of School Without Permission? Court Will Take Your Furniture...or Jail Term.

a reply to: Annee

I still can't fathom this matter of fact dismissal of any critique of bad policy with the explanation that it is "law".

"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."

-Isabel Paterson

It seems as if the UK is just a hop skip and a jump away. Or, perhaps, just a jump.

The US has just finished its skip but isn't far behind.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Annee

I still can't fathom this matter of fact dismissal of any critique of bad policy with the explanation that it is "law".

"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."

-Isabel Paterson

It seems as if the UK is just a hop skip and a jump away. Or, perhaps, just a jump.

The US has just finished its skip but isn't far behind.

I didn't make it up.

Don't shoot the messenger.

A friend of mine has a 15 year old son. He kept skipping school and getting his mother into trouble. It got to the point that she would drive him to school, and wait to make sure he actually went in. As soon as she drove off, he'd be straight out the door.

She almost went to jail for this, despite making every effort possible to make sure he attended school. In the end she had to take him out and home school him.

Why the hell should she go to jail, or even be threatened with it?

You're going crazy, England. And just when I thought some sanity was finally surfacing.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ZacharyW

originally posted by: Annee
Here we go again.

Schools work on a very tight budget. They are paid only if student is in attendance.

You take your kid out of school - - you are stealing from the government.

You don't want your kid in a government school - - then pay for a private one.

Right...how dare you take your own flesh and blood out of school. How dare you STEAL from the government after all the government has done from you. You temporarily sold your kid to this school. The school has custody now! unless you want to pay!!

MUAHAHAHAHA

Jeez next time you think about doing something positive with your own child make sure you get the governments permission first or else pay up.

I love the "too bad should have listened to the government" argument. Lmao. Good stuff.

This isn't about me.

It is what it is.

It may be what it is. But defending the government isn't helping change things for the better. People need to be upset...its healthy..If everyone had the attitude of "its just what it is"...imagine how much #tier the world we live in would be. Governments and the agendas they push are dependent on the acceptance or non-acceptance of the people.

a reply to: SensiblyReckless


I always thought that in a democratic country a person could not be prosecuted for the 'failings' of another person.

Parents being sent to prison for almost adult children refusing to go to school is one of the craziest things that can happen.

Many children absolutely HATE school but would happily be at work and they should be allowed to start working at a younger age than 16 if they want to as long as they continue some academic training also.

It is ludicrous keeping people in a classroom up to age 18 and some up to age 22 or more.

a reply to: Elliot

I thought that too until this happened to my friend.

To get things into perspective - her son is 6 foot tall. He's not a child really and his mum could only do so much to make him go to school.

a reply to: SensiblyReckless

It's still a pretty recent happening in the UK though, as far as I'm aware.

Don't remember parents being sent to prison for their children's bad behaviour in times past.

To send someone to prison for someone elses 'crime' is a dangerous precedent in law as parents very much have their hands tied behind their backs when it comes to physical discipline.

Hopefully, your friend's home schooling went fine? I often wondered if it was the 'best' thing to do and not until we had finished home schooling and the child had grown up did we realise it really was the best thing without a doubt.

My biggest surprise however is the amount of parents who tolerate this treatment.

Many years ago one of my children was sick a lot one year. He had tonsilitis three times in a row, a flu bug, hospital appointments etc. We received a letter from the school saying that we were no longer 'allowed' to decide if our child was sick and needed a letter from our doctor every time he was off. After the school had a 'piece of my mind' I shredded the letter!

Then, when my son was sick with mumps I heard NOTHING from the school! We would not have tolerated any more from them and would probably had taken some form of legal action for harrassment.

a reply to: SensiblyReckless

Can your friends husband or partner not have a word or short of that bump the boy on the nose to make him realize the error of his way and that school is important regarding his future?

Thankfully, no nose bumping necessary. The kid is behaving now he's home schooled.

Eliot, that sounds all too familiar. It's only a matter of time before some parents get in serious trouble because their child was sick and off school.

originally posted by: ZacharyW

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ZacharyW

originally posted by: Annee
Here we go again.

Schools work on a very tight budget. They are paid only if student is in attendance.

You take your kid out of school - - you are stealing from the government.

You don't want your kid in a government school - - then pay for a private one.

Right...how dare you take your own flesh and blood out of school. How dare you STEAL from the government after all the government has done from you. You temporarily sold your kid to this school. The school has custody now! unless you want to pay!!

MUAHAHAHAHA

Jeez next time you think about doing something positive with your own child make sure you get the governments permission first or else pay up.

I love the "too bad should have listened to the government" argument. Lmao. Good stuff.

This isn't about me.

It is what it is.

It may be what it is. But defending the government isn't helping change things for the better. People need to be upset...its healthy..If everyone had the attitude of "its just what it is"...imagine how much #tier the world we live in would be. Governments and the agendas they push are dependent on the acceptance or non-acceptance of the people.

It is your interpretation that I am defending anything.

And . . "It Is What It Is". That is not an attitude. That is a fact.

Don't like it? Fix it.

Let's here how you are realistically going to fix it.

a reply to: Annee

In the short run, vouchers and charter schools have the ability to fix the situation without significantly changing much of anything.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

"Public school is a privilege. It guarantees a minimal education for every child. Not all countries have this privilege."

The key word in that statement is "minimal".

Really? Can't have them too smart --- they might think for themselves and then they wouldn't be good little soldiers.

That's what the school system is designed for, alright.

originally posted by: Annee
OR

Parents need to work with their child to enhance their learning as studies show kids who's parents sit with them and do school work with them do better in school.

What a concept. Not relying on government to do everything.

Better yet, get the government out of the system entirely, and allow the parents and local communities to handle the education in their areas. Since the parents do a better job (and they do, as home school studies prove time and time again), why should the children be forced into public schools that can't do what they are paid to do?

Great concept. Don't rely on the government for everything, and don't allow the government to force you to do so!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: redhorse

Don't let that "socialization" business stop you from home schooling. Studies show kids who are home schooled are better adjusted, overall, in society. The system in the schools isn't natural. She can have friends, and not see them at school. Love everything else you said!

Could we please have some links to those studies? From an unbias source.

Of course there are those "perfect" parents who do everything right, but what about the rest of them.

When my husband and I had our store, we had 2 family's that homeschooled. We had to finally ask both of them not to bring their kids in the store anymore. The kids had no respect for anything. It was a "free-for-all" in my store.

Look them up. They come from various sources. What is "unbiased" to you; a report from the public school system or a teacher's union? I will not post links for someone who has already dismissed any and all evidence that doesn't agree with the system.

The vast majority of home schooled children are very well behaved, able to talk with people of all ages (unlike public school children, who are usually only able to get along well within their age group), do better in college, do better in the job market, and are better educated overall. Those are facts.

An anecdote about two supposedly home schooled families and their children doesn't mean much. I have known many home schooled children, from many families, and never had any behave as you describe. I have also seen many kids who attend public schools. The behavior is very different. Those are the children with no respect, the ones that bully others, the ones whose parents seem to think their little "angels" can do no wrong. Where are the videos of home schooled kids beating up another kid? Oh, that's right, those are all public school kids. Fights on buses in homes, in locker rooms. Fights where parents have joined in. Even if you did encounter such children, they would be the rarity.

As for your "perfect parents" barb, how about the teachers that molest students, and the schools that shuffle them around and cover it up as often as not? How about the teachers that hit students? There are videos of such cases. How about the students that can't even read at upper grade levels, or identify major countries on a map? The children are not property of the State, no matter how much you might like them to be.

originally posted by: Gully
Where I live there are "Count Days" - specific days that the students are counted. This count affects the amount of funding the school gets from the State. If anything it's stealing from the student, not the government, at least in my view.

That being said. I should be able to take my kid out of school with notice, for whatever reason as long as it's not habitual.

That sounds like the sort of system they would use. I would not call it "stealing" at all, but I agree that it affects the students, and not the government.

I agree. We should be able, as parents, to decide if and when our children attend school. Even habitually, as far as I am concerned. I do believe a good education is important, and have gone to a great deal of effort over the years to home school my own. That said, some parents might not agree, and that is their decision. I don't agree with the government deciding how parents should raise their kids.

Considering that many college graduates can''t get a job any better than people without one, it would seem that the education system isn't always doing the job it's supposed to do.

originally posted by: ArcticLights
Agreed.

It's more about control than anything else. My wife and i didn't home-school our sons, but we have met some wonderful home-school families. We probably would if we had to do it again.

Just like anything else, there is good and bad, that's the reality. In the Government's case, mostly bad.

I wasn't able with my oldest, and there were issues. She is highly intelligent (180's), and was in GT classes when younger. Later, when nothing of the sort was available, she became bored. The end result was she dropped out, and ended up testing later for her completion. I was a single mother for a good part of this, and later, hadn't really looked into it enough, and I was working as well. With the second, [he sent K-1 in public school, and that was it. 2-3 hours a day of homework, constant notes that he "wasn't listening" or something of the sort, and we had enough. I quit work (losing a whopping @200 max a month, net, after expenses), and we started home schooling. In about the time it took for his homework before, we could almost finish an entire day's worth of work. Scheduling was ours to decide, he could "go to school" sick, and he learned more. He's grown now, and very well adjusted. He can talk to anyone, is respected and depended upon in his job, and knows a lot on a wide variety of subjects. Compared to the typical guy his age, there is a world of difference.

There is some good in the school system. There are some good teachers. I am related to a couple. A lot more, though (I agree, most) are not so good, and the system is broken. Well, as far as real education is concerned. It's definitely more about control, and indoctrination, and training to be a good, docile, little sheep.

Not my kids!

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: redhorse

Don't let that "socialization" business stop you from home schooling. Studies show kids who are home schooled are better adjusted, overall, in society. The system in the schools isn't natural. She can have friends, and not see them at school. Love everything else you said!

Could we please have some links to those studies? From an unbias source.

Of course there are those "perfect" parents who do everything right, but what about the rest of them.

When my husband and I had our store, we had 2 family's that homeschooled. We had to finally ask both of them not to bring their kids in the store anymore. The kids had no respect for anything. It was a "free-for-all" in my store.

Look them up. They come from various sources. What is "unbiased" to you; a report from the public school system or a teacher's union? I will not post links for someone who has already dismissed any and all evidence that doesn't agree with the system.

You really think I didn't do my own research?

But, if you state: "studies show" - - be prepared for someone to ask for Links.

I also found this: Homeschoolers Anonymous - - - a blog for those home schooled kids who didn't have the "Perfect Parent".

Homeschoolers Anonymous - - March 19, 2013 by Suzanne Calulu

We’re excited to take part in a new community, Homeschoolers Anonymous, a venture put together by some of our bloggers joining together with others who’ve experienced abuse during their homeschooled years.
Here is more information from Homeschoolers Anonymous!

Former homeschoolers rally against abuse - - March 16, 2013

A group of former homeschoolers are joining together to bring awareness to and healing from different forms of abuse in extreme homeschooling subcultures. The organization, Homeschoolers Anonymous (HA), is being coordinated by former homeschoolers across the United States, including California, Louisiana, Oregon, and Washington.

According to recent surveys, approximately 2 million children are taught at home in the United States. The total number of home-educated kids doubled between 1999 and 2007. While some are being homeschooled in non-Christian families, the National Home Education Research Institute claims almost three-quarters of those 2 million children have conservative Christian parents who aim to pass on their moral and religious values to their kids through home education. This makes religion the primary motivating factor behind this form of education.

Read more: www.patheos.com...

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

The vast majority of home schooled children are very well behaved, able to talk with people of all ages (unlike public school children, who are usually only able to get along well within their age group), do better in college, do better in the job market, and are better educated overall. Those are facts.

If that is opinion, fine. But, since you don't know a vast majority of home schooled children - - - it isn't a very reliable opinion.

My personal experience with home schooled children has not been positive.

But, you claim Facts. Facts require proof.

a reply to: Annee

A blog is the best you can do? Look up actual studies. Not blogs, which could easily be faked, but studies. If you simply asked for links, that would e one thing, but when you specify that they be from "valid" or "legitimate" sources, you have already shown that you won't accept anything from any pro-hoe schooling groups. So, go look yourself.

You have claimed many times in this thread to be simply stating facts, but it looks very much like you are defending the behavior of the system in trying to control children and parents. What,, exactly, is your personal view on the topic? Let's get all the cards out on the table.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

The vast majority of home schooled children are very well behaved, able to talk with people of all ages (unlike public school children, who are usually only able to get along well within their age group), do better in college, do better in the job market, and are better educated overall. Those are facts.

If that is opinion, fine. But, since you don't know a vast majority of home schooled children - - - it isn't a very reliable opinion.

My personal experience with home schooled children has not been positive.

But, you claim Facts. Facts require proof.

Your statements are opinion. You also referred to TWO families. I have known a lot more than that, and never seen anything like what you describe. The simple fact is, when parents care enough about their children's education to do it themselves, they are also going to be the sort of parents that also care about proper behavior and discipline. That's common sense.

The facts are online, all over the place, for anyone that cares to look, and doesn't refuse to look at pro-home schooling sources.

You seem to have already decided that the government control system is best, and are doing all you can to defend it. Posting links for you would be, I believe, a waste of time.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

The vast majority of home schooled children are very well behaved, able to talk with people of all ages (unlike public school children, who are usually only able to get along well within their age group), do better in college, do better in the job market, and are better educated overall. Those are facts.

If that is opinion, fine. But, since you don't know a vast majority of home schooled children - - - it isn't a very reliable opinion.

My personal experience with home schooled children has not been positive.

But, you claim Facts. Facts require proof.

Your statements are opinion. You also referred to TWO families. I have known a lot more than that, and never seen anything like what you describe. The simple fact is, when parents care enough about their children's education to do it themselves, they are also going to be the sort of parents that also care about proper behavior and discipline. That's common sense.

The facts are online, all over the place, for anyone that cares to look, and doesn't refuse to look at pro-home schooling sources.

You seem to have already decided that the government control system is best, and are doing all you can to defend it. Posting links for you would be, I believe, a waste of time.

I'm not defending anything. That is your own interpretation.

I'm simply pointing out "what is".