Take YOUR Kid Out of School Without Permission? Court Will Take Your Furniture...or Jail Term.

a reply to: jude11

And this is why I no longer value the UK. There is no such thing as Freedom, Privacy or Liberty in the UK. The same thing has and is happening in the US but no where as bad. Not yet anyways. Very saddening really.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: greencmp
All laws must ultimately be enforced by the threat of violence, to dismiss that fact is to misunderstand the nature of government.

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence – it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master…"

-George Washington

Yeah but you have to remember that the story in the OP is based in the UK, we generally do not face violence from our police as you routinely do in the US. We laugh at lots of laws because we can as we don't have roid-rage cops who shoot us dead for failing to comply as you do. The parents in this story were either stupid, naive, or media whores.
Everyone I know just lies and says little Johnny was sick, then laughs at the stupid law. The parents in the OP were too stupid to do that so I have no sympathy.

AGAIN, NOBODY IS FORCED TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO STATE SCHOOL IN THE UK, WE CAN ALL HOME-SCHOOL IF WE WISH.
ENTER INTO A CONTRACT WITH A LOCAL EDUCATION AUTHORITY BY ENROLLING YOUR CHILD AT A STATE SCHOOL THEN THE DEAL IS UNAUTHARISED ABSENCE = £120 PENALTY. PAY IT OR JUST LIE THAT JOHNNY WAS SICK AS EVERYONE PRETTY MUCH DOES, EXCEPT THE STUPID PARENTS IN THE OP.
This is not a case of oppression. Nobody is forced to enrol their child into a state school in the UK. The contract IS A CHOICE.

This is not a country specific axiom. You are subject to its conclusion just the same.

a reply to: jude11

More and more reason that ALL public school institutions and laws should be utterly abolished. All of them. No government has ANY right, or duty, or business, telling parents if, how, when, or where to educate THEIR children. The "village" needs to butt out.

What do the kids learn, anyway? Propaganda, special interest agendas, how to be a good little sheep and slave to authority? Considering posts from teens online, most of them aren't even learning proper grammar and spelling, much less anything else. Yes, I know some schools are alright. Some kids learn. But there is more BS than real education. Schools used to be set up to teach kids because their parents CHOSE to send the, and the communities would pay the teacher. Many parents weren't literate, and wanted their children to learn more. That's GREAT. Good system. The parents and community choose the teacher, and those that wish send their children. When the government steps in, it's about money, and control, and brainwashing. It's about taking children from parents and treating them as property of the state. Yes, I said property.

Fines for a child missing school, and confiscation of property???? That is beyond theft. That's totalitarian action. Not your children, not your house, not your furniture. Nope, it all belongs to the state, and if you don't tow the party line, they'll come and take it from you, and jail or kill you if you don't cooperate.

Taking furniture and threatening jail for five days out of school? Coming in force, to bust in? This is another reason ALL free people needs guns. Nice big ones that hold a lot of ammo.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: redhorse

You can claim whatever you want.

I'm talking about America's school system - - - which sounds exactly the same.

You keep your child out of school - - - you are stealing from the government.

What a crock! WE pay for the schools. "We" meaning any and all taxpayers, including those with no children in said schools. The schools are, by rights, OURS. The government, by rights, is OURS, our employees. Get that straight. a lot of politicians need to get that straight, too. Not sending your child to something you already paid for is theft how, exactly? Please explain the convoluted logic that has led you to this erroneous conclusion. Stealing fund you already paid, and do not get back, by not having them do more work by sending your child? Please be detailed.

originally posted by: Annee
Public school is a privilege. It guarantees a minimal education for every child. Not all countries have this privilege.

The key word in that statement is "minimal".

a reply to: redhorse

Don't let that "socialization" business stop you from home schooling. Studies show kids who are home schooled are better adjusted, overall, in society. The system in the schools isn't natural. She can have friends, and not see them at school. Love everything else you said!

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

"Public school is a privilege. It guarantees a minimal education for every child. Not all countries have this privilege."

The key word in that statement is "minimal".

Really? Can't have them too smart --- they might think for themselves and then they wouldn't be good little soldiers.

OR

Parents need to work with their child to enhance their learning as studies show kids who's parents sit with them and do school work with them do better in school.

What a concept. Not relying on government to do everything.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: redhorse

Don't let that "socialization" business stop you from home schooling. Studies show kids who are home schooled are better adjusted, overall, in society. The system in the schools isn't natural. She can have friends, and not see them at school. Love everything else you said!

Could we please have some links to those studies? From an unbias source.

Of course there are those "perfect" parents who do everything right, but what about the rest of them.

When my husband and I had our store, we had 2 family's that homeschooled. We had to finally ask both of them not to bring their kids in the store anymore. The kids had no respect for anything. It was a "free-for-all" in my store.

Living in the UK I can only say how very pleased i am not to have school aged children anymore.

I know I would not tolerate such extreme control on my child, family or self. I wonder how others do, except that they 'feel' that they have to.

One more point I wanted to make on this situation in England, is that. This law only applies to England. This does not apply to Scotland, and to be honest I don't know for sure but believe it is also not the situation in Wales or Northern Ireland.

In England also children are to stay in full time education until the age of 18, though so far there is no 'punishment' for no compliers....so one can only assume it is to keep the unemployment figures lower than they would be otherwise.

Of course it is excellent to stay in education for as long as possible, but if that is the case why not in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

So, we have a situation where only parents in England are fined for going away with their own children. I find that rather 'odd'.

a reply to: Flint2011
So far in the UK very few people are 'forced' to go to a state school, only to provide an 'education'.

However, people feel compelled by habit or circumstances to use the state school system.

The freedom to educate otherwise than in a state school is still enshrined and respected by the state.....so far though I suspect it is something they would like to bring to an end. The last labour government was starting to demonize home schooling and it appears there is growing interest in government circles to 'give it a nother go'.

Society is set up in such a way now that it is becoming more difficult to live out of the system that has been built up but it is still very doable by those who wish to.

a reply to: grainofsand

Ha Ha! but who says its not something our government doesn't have within its mind to grant - imagine the extra layers of costs we would have to pay then. Life in the UK has always been a controlled one make no mistake, but now social media has opened up a means for us all to talk to one-an-other so every government is feeling threatened and getting more brutal in what it lets its police forces get way with. Just watch some of the foreign news and how the police are armed today. We aren't allowed to carry arms in this country so ordinary people are sheep to armed police.

a reply to: Shiloh7

The amount of Police armed response units on the streets of the UK has been on the rise since the 1990s. I imagine by the year 2020 most Police Officers in the UK will carry some form of firearm.

If only our Police forces would return to being public servants as opposed to the totalitarian paramilitary organisation they have become, drop the attitude and absurd zero tolerance policies they have adopted, then they may not require firearms to carry out their daily business. Sad really!

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: redhorse

You can claim whatever you want.

I'm talking about America's school system - - - which sounds exactly the same.

You keep your child out of school - - - you are stealing from the government.

What a crock! WE pay for the schools. "We" meaning any and all taxpayers, including those with no children in said schools. The schools are, by rights, OURS. The government, by rights, is OURS, our employees. Get that straight. a lot of politicians need to get that straight, too. Not sending your child to something you already paid for is theft how, exactly? Please explain the convoluted logic that has led you to this erroneous conclusion. Stealing fund you already paid, and do not get back, by not having them do more work by sending your child? Please be detailed.

originally posted by: Annee
Public school is a privilege. It guarantees a minimal education for every child. Not all countries have this privilege.

The key word in that statement is "minimal".

Where I live there are "Count Days" - specific days that the students are counted. This count affects the amount of funding the school gets from the State. If anything it's stealing from the student, not the government, at least in my view.

That being said. I should be able to take my kid out of school with notice, for whatever reason as long as it's not habitual.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: jude11

More and more reason that ALL public school institutions and laws should be utterly abolished. All of them. No government has ANY right, or duty, or business, telling parents if, how, when, or where to educate THEIR children. The "village" needs to butt out.

What do the kids learn, anyway? Propaganda, special interest agendas, how to be a good little sheep and slave to authority? Considering posts from teens online, most of them aren't even learning proper grammar and spelling, much less anything else. Yes, I know some schools are alright. Some kids learn. But there is more BS than real education. Schools used to be set up to teach kids because their parents CHOSE to send the, and the communities would pay the teacher. Many parents weren't literate, and wanted their children to learn more. That's GREAT. Good system. The parents and community choose the teacher, and those that wish send their children. When the government steps in, it's about money, and control, and brainwashing. It's about taking children from parents and treating them as property of the state. Yes, I said property.

Fines for a child missing school, and confiscation of property???? That is beyond theft. That's totalitarian action. Not your children, not your house, not your furniture. Nope, it all belongs to the state, and if you don't tow the party line, they'll come and take it from you, and jail or kill you if you don't cooperate.

Taking furniture and threatening jail for five days out of school? Coming in force, to bust in? This is another reason ALL free people needs guns. Nice big ones that hold a lot of ammo.

Agreed.

It's more about control than anything else. My wife and i didn't home-school our sons, but we have met some wonderful home-school families. We probably would if we had to do it again.

Just like anything else, there is good and bad, that's the reality. In the Government's case, mostly bad.

It's all just a Big Scam!

School holiday, holiday prices are quadruple what they were in term times.... Basically out pricing most from taking their family away on a holiday.

a friend took his family (two adults three kids) away for a weekend at Centre Parks in Nottingham ... yep that's two days two nights.... Because this was during school holidays it cost them an eye watering £750.... that's $1,100.16 for our American readers... For a weekend..

Yet....

During School Term time the same Cabin for the same length of time was wait for it.... £239 or $350.494

It's total and blatant Racketeering!!!

Korg.

OMG ok, don't like that? How about this: WTF. seriously that is so twisted. S&F

We Home Educated.

We went on holiday whenever we wanted and as cheaply as we wanted as often as we wanted. We didn't feel we needed someone to tell us' yes' or 'no'.

The main expense was having just one income and then the final exam fees at the nearest private Grammar School.

You can 'play the game' out of the system quite easily, it's just that not everyone is in a position to do so and probably most importantly not everyone knows how easy it is to take your child's education into your own hands and your child succeed...which most HE children do....very nicely.

We have a lot of sympathy with parents these days......but just cannot understand why the tolerate these rules.

originally posted by: jude11
I thought I was getting ready to turn off the computer and retire...then this came up for a WTF? moment.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Parents who took their teenage son out of school without permission for a five-day holiday ended up with a £1,200 bill and a visit from the bailiffs. The couple were originally fined £120 over the 14-year-old’s unauthorised absence from Sweyne Park School, an academy in Rayleigh, Essex.

Fined for taking YOUR child out of school? Wow!

But then I thought "Ok, ridiculous and most likely an error...nope. It actually gets worse.

They were convicted in their absence and ordered to pay fines of £200 per parent plus costs and a victim’s surcharge. The amount was left unpaid and court bailiffs arrived on the family’s doorstep threatening to remove items to settle the debt. They were even threatened with prison if they refused to co-operate.

They get a visit from court appointed goons threatening to actually REMOVE household items AND threatened with jail if they did not allow them to enter the house to steal their personal belongings. That's right, I said STEAL.

And so the grandmother gets involved:

The grandmother, who asked not to be named, said: "My son rang me in a state of panic and I in turn rang the bailiff who informed me that if the eye-watering fine of £1,230 wasn't paid immediately they would force entry and remove goods to the value. "These goods would then be auctioned and all charges would be added to the bill, making an estimated total of £3,500, while inability to pay would have automatically incurred a three month custodial sentence for both parents.”

FORCE ENTRY to steal their couch and kitchen chairs? WTF? While not being able to pay would result in 3 Months behind bars for BOTH parents. And this is beneficial to this family...how?

WAIT! We're not finished yet...How's this for a case of you not raising your own children?

A spokesman for Essex County Council said: "Parents have a legal duty to ensure regular school attendance for their children who are registered at a school.

"Where there is concern for a child's attendance, schools will work with the family to address the cause of the absence. "If this is not successful and the absences are not authorised by the school, the matter may be referred to the county council's Education Welfare Service (EWS) which will arrange a meeting between the school and family.

"If the situation does not improve the EWS will escalate the matter as appropriate, which may include issuing a penalty notice, prosecution or education supervision order. "If a penalty notice is not paid within 28 days the EWS would proceed with prosecution.”

Catch the term: "Not Authorized"

Granted that some cases may be cause for concern here but for those that are not a case of a child in trouble, just pay up or else you'll have to hand over your laundry hamper for sale.

And the permission to take your child on vacation comes from?

Not you but a teacher must PERMIT you to do so:

headteachers should only permit term time absences in “exceptional circumstances”.

So, still having doubts as to who you answer to, who actually has control over your household goods, bank account AND your kids?

I am not even close to being done but I believe the picture has been presented.

Jude11

refer the following link ........ it is correct and you do have to ask permission :-

www.gov.uk...

Yep, you are owned

originally posted by: Annee
Here we go again.

Schools work on a very tight budget. They are paid only if student is in attendance.

You take your kid out of school - - you are stealing from the government.

You don't want your kid in a government school - - then pay for a private one.

Right...how dare you take your own flesh and blood out of school. How dare you STEAL from the government after all the government has done from you. You temporarily sold your kid to this school. The school has custody now! unless you want to pay!!

MUAHAHAHAHA

Jeez next time you think about doing something positive with your own child make sure you get the governments permission first or else pay up.

I love the "too bad should have listened to the government" argument. Lmao. Good stuff.

originally posted by: ZacharyW

originally posted by: Annee
Here we go again.

Schools work on a very tight budget. They are paid only if student is in attendance.

You take your kid out of school - - you are stealing from the government.

You don't want your kid in a government school - - then pay for a private one.

Right...how dare you take your own flesh and blood out of school. How dare you STEAL from the government after all the government has done from you. You temporarily sold your kid to this school. The school has custody now! unless you want to pay!!

MUAHAHAHAHA

Jeez next time you think about doing something positive with your own child make sure you get the governments permission first or else pay up.

I love the "too bad should have listened to the government" argument. Lmao. Good stuff.

This isn't about me.

It is what it is.