Teen suspect who died after Roswell police chase was heart recipient...makes me sick.

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Let me ask you something ??? Who needs a second chance ...a thug or a good person ??? His family will live the rest of their lives knowing that they fought to give him that second chance. I won't say that some individuals shouldn't be eliminated....I just don't want to be the person drawing that line. Btw I can be a dick at times and insensitive...but I try not to indulge in it too much.

a reply to: Scouse100

How can you possibly know that his race did play a part?

Flip side of the question and such

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: rippinitup

And if she had any tricks up her sleeve I bet she'd have at least considered them. This is the world we were given.

So considering something is on the same level as doing something?

Thought police much?

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Scouse100

How can you possibly know that his race did play a part?

Flip side of the question and such

I never said it did. Just seems to be a lot of certainty that the 'race card' has been played here where for me it is impossible to be sure.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

Wow.....shocking that the hospital and everyone else was correct....he should have been denied the heart, but instead, because they played the race card, he got it. I hope everyone involved in getting this thug his heart are re-evaluating their lives, though chances are very slim.

What a waste of money, air and a good heart. I hope the supporters of this kind thing give their heads a shake and do better next time. On your above comment might I just change things around a bit since the race card was mentioned ;-)

"Wow.....shocking that so many of the American people were correct....Obama should have been denied the position of POTUS, but instead, because they played the race card, he got it. I hope everyone involved in getting this idiot his position are re-evaluating their lives, though chances are very slim."

Funny how it doesn't take much to apply the same sentiment.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Scouse100

How can you possibly know that his race did play a part?

Flip side of the question and such

I never said it did. Just seems to be a lot of certainty that the 'race card' has been played here where for me it is impossible to be sure.

It was played....why do you think the SCLC got involved? The parents of the thug played the race card, when the hospital had a very valid reason for denying his being added to the list. Apparently, even without the race card being played, the hospital was correct which is why the thug is now dead....

Are you a parent? Because I don't understand how anyone could not get that a mother will do anything, say anything to save her child. I also get annoyed when the race card is played depending on each individual situation. This boy was going to die though. As a mom I completely understand why she said and did anything for him to receive this heart. Just one more day with a loved one matters so much.

I was one of those people who heard this story, and I am also one of those people who rallied behind this kid to get a heart. I found the hospitals judgment of him, frightening, to say the least. If our society allows that kind of judgmental behavior by our doctors what's next? "Oh, you smoke, sorry no surgery for you" "sorry we can't give you the surgery you need because you don't fit our criteria for a worthy candidate, because you have, add, or are fat, or gay, or black, or white or whatever it is they deem unfit" this doctor basically said, "oh your a trouble maker, you can't handle your meds, sorry no heart for you". I don't care what the frack happened afterwards that kind of thought from our doctors, whose job is to solely fix our body ailments, is not okay, not know and not ever.

You say you think he shouldn't have been given a heart based on what? On where he is now? based on what came after he received his heart? Isn't that a little too much like pre-crime judgment? He was a kid then, most kids are troublemakers, but he hadn't murdered or raped anyone. I don't recall reading up that he was an accomplice in an armed robbery then either. He was a fifteen year old boy who could have had the whole world ahead of him. It turns out he didn't want it, and that is a shame, it really is.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Scouse100

How can you possibly know that his race did play a part?

Flip side of the question and such

I never said it did. Just seems to be a lot of certainty that the 'race card' has been played here where for me it is impossible to be sure.

It was played....why do you think the SCLC got involved? The parents of the thug played the race card, when the hospital had a very valid reason for denying his being added to the list. Apparently, even without the race card being played, the hospital was correct which is why the thug is now dead....

No, if race did come into the decision then they were not playing the race card, it was a legitimate challenge.

originally posted by: brandiwine14
Are you a parent? Because I don't understand how anyone could not get that a mother will do anything, say anything to save her child. I also get annoyed when the race card is played depending on each individual situation. This boy was going to die though. As a mom I completely understand why she said and did anything for him to receive this heart. Just one more day with a loved one matters so much.

I was one of those people who heard this story, and I am also one of those people who rallied behind this kid to get a heart. I found the hospitals judgment of him, frightening, to say the least. If our society allows that kind of judgmental behavior by our doctors what's next? "Oh, you smoke, sorry no surgery for you" "sorry we can't give you the surgery you need because you don't fit our criteria for a worthy candidate, because you have, add, or are fat, or gay, or black, or white or whatever it is they deem unfit" this doctor basically said, "oh your a trouble maker, you can't handle your meds, sorry no heart for you". I don't care what the frack happened afterwards that kind of thought from our doctors, whose job is to solely fix our body ailments, is not okay, not know and not ever.

You say you think he shouldn't have been given a heart based on what? On where he is now? based on what came after he received his heart? Isn't that a little too much like pre-crime judgment? He was a kid then, most kids are troublemakers, but he hadn't murdered or raped anyone. I don't recall reading up that he was an accomplice in an armed robbery then either. He was a fifteen year old boy who could have had the whole world ahead of him. It turns out he didn't want it, and that is a shame, it really is.

They have to judge because there are not hearts just sitting around waiting for people to come get. They have to pick who deserves one the most, or has the most to live for or will take care of themselves.

And pre-crime judgement? If you followed the story at all like you said then you would know he had numerous run-ins with LEO and when he went in to get on the list he had a court ordered ankle bracelet on for house arrest because of committing a crime.....so yeah.....I will base my judgement on the fact he was a thug before he went in and even more so when he got out. But I guess as long as murder and rape are your only concerns then he was a fine upstanding citizen....please spare me the diatribe. The thug didn't deserve the heart...the right decision was made the first time to deny it, then it was forced by pulling in race and activists.

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.

Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

They have to judge because there are not hearts just sitting around waiting for people to come get. They have to pick who deserves one the most, or has the most to live for or will take care of themselves.

And pre-crime judgement? If you followed the story at all like you said then you would know he had numerous run-ins with LEO and when he went in to get on the list he had a court ordered ankle bracelet on for house arrest because of committing a crime.....so yeah.....I will base my judgement on the fact he was a thug before he went in and even more so when he got out. But I guess as long as murder and rape are your only concerns then he was a fine upstanding citizen....please spare me the diatribe. The thug didn't deserve the heart...the right decision was made the first time to deny it, then it was forced by pulling in race and activists.

Thanks Vasa Croe....Couldn't have said it better myself and I was getting ready to type a response! People don't read anything before they reply and they think their "better judgement" is smart...When in reality they sound dumb because they didn't read what the hell people are talking about! This is clearly a race card case here, 100% and for anyone to say otherwise is just not reading what is available to look at....

a reply to: Scouse100

It is impossible. All the more so because he was a minor. Add to that medical privacy laws. So the family can say any thing they want, and the hospital staff really can't even refute anything, much less explain with any degree of detail.

But, we can agree that it's impossible to know and will be impossible to know.

kind of reminds me of how frank gallagher on the show shameless got a new liver. i don't know guys i wouldn't be so quick to judge the man who died here, race card or not, it's just a sad story all around. i know some of you want to see all thugs dead but thugs need love too especially young ones that still have time to turn their lives around, it's just such a sad shame this guy had a second chance at life and messed it up.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Are you going to tell me you are crime free? You have lived your entire life without committing a crime? Or you simply got lucky and didn't get caught? I saw nothing deserving of a death warrant for this child.

The way things are going now, with every little bit of our life stories out in the open. All our movements tracked, and soon maybe even in our living rooms. Our conversations listened to. One day will be used against you, and you might be judged. The moment you roll over and allow small petty acts to judge an entire human being who appeared to have his whole life ahead of him, well you lose. We all lose, if that is what we allow.

I can tell you feel real good about him being the thug you thought he was. Maybe if people would have expected better from him he could have made it. Instead, he is just another thug dead.

One day though, you might end up in the hospital and well....you never know. Hope your background is squeaky clean.

originally posted by: brandiwine14
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Are you going to tell me you are crime free? You have lived your entire life without committing a crime? Or you simply got lucky and didn't get caught? I saw nothing deserving of a death warrant for this child.

The way things are going now, with every little bit of our life stories out in the open. All our movements tracked, and soon maybe even in our living rooms. Our conversations listened to. One day will be used against you, and you might be judged. The moment you roll over and allow small petty acts to judge an entire human being who appeared to have his whole life ahead of him, well you lose. We all lose, if that is what we allow.

I can tell you feel real good about him being the thug you thought he was. Maybe if people would have expected better from him he could have made it. Instead, he is just another thug dead.

One day though, you might end up in the hospital and well....you never know. Hope your background is squeaky clean.

Speeding tickets....crazy enough I somehow managed not to rob people or commit crimes....shocking right? But since rape and murder are your only caveats then I should be smooth sailing if I need a transplant and you're on the decision board....

Sure there was nothing deserving of a death warrant, but his getting a heart likely signed the death warrant for a deserving patient.

I am pretty sure all the people that rallied around the racial cries were supporting him doing something better with his life....guess there weren't enough.

Either way, he sure proved the hospital admin right with their initial decision...

a reply to: conspiracy nut

Best show ever....crosses about every boundary in society ever...

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.

Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.

I won't say it again, but nowhere have I said it was race. I just don't see how we can be so certain it did not play a part.

What are the criteria for qualifying, are there specific guidelines available for us to look at?