Indiana Shut Down Its Rural Planned Parenthood Clinics And Got An HIV Outbreak

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: windword

It's too bad women consider murdering their defenseless babies a 'reproductive right.'

It's too bad people confer more rights onto a lump of flesh that isn't even sentient than they do a middle aged farm animal.

See, I can play this game too.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Digital_Reality

So an abortion to save the life of the mother because the pregnancy was threatening to kill her is not an excusable reason to have an abortion?

I'm sorry but I am not qualified to make this decision.

If I were in that situation I would tell the doc to roll the dice. That decision is not mine to make.
I guess you would be one of those who think im all mixed up and you should choose for me? Please say no..

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Seamrog

As far as I know infanticide IS illegal in all US states.

Um, no.

Women can murder their babies in any number of ways in literally every state in the union, and get patted on the back for their bravery.

Women can even cut an infant out of the womb of another woman, kill it in the process, and NOT be charged with murder.

What a badge of honor for the progressives in this country.

What progress women have made!

I was with you until this statement. Please show us an example of this being accepted or happening where the mom is not under a jail. Please don't cite botched C-sections. I have to deny ignorance here.

It has to be the people's fault who shut down the clinic right? I mean the people who got the HIV have absolutely no culpability.

originally posted by: avgguy
It has to be the people's fault who shut down the clinic right? I mean the people who got the HIV have absolutely no culpability.

Either way, if you live in that state, you're paying the freight.

a reply to: Digital_Reality

That's where you anti-abortionist crowed lose me.

When the entity is still a fetus, you pretend to have all the compassion in the world for life and your fellow human being. But once that fetus grows up and becomes a frustrated drug addicted individual without the skills to thrive though life (because they where raised by a mother who knew full well she didn't have what it takes to raise a healthy & productive individual), you then become cold & unemphatic and want this individual to rot away in the gutter or a jail cell.

You can't have both ways, either your pro life or anti life. Whether that life hasn't even witnessed one rotation of the sun, or has witnessed over 20 is completely irreverent, there still that same entity.

Personally, if I ever knocked up a female and found out they'd had an abortion, I'd be furious and heart broken, to say the least. I'd fight to the death to ensure any seed of mine had the chance to thrive though this life.

But at the same time, if that was the decision she made, I'd accept it. Because when it all boils down, it's the women's choice pure and simple and it's far more humane not to have lived at all, than to be raised by a mother who doesn't have what it takes to give you a decent quality of life, imo.

btw, just to be clear, that's not even some personal resentment I have for my own upbringing, like people may assume. But just try to imagine being brought up in a home where the food selves are constantly empty and by a mother that didn't even want you in the first place. It would be a horrible existence!

So if this was a clinic who's clientele was largely addicted ex-military, would the acerbic trash talk still be the same, or would certain participants of this conversation suddenly hold them in a different light, more deserving of pro-active health measures? Or do they still qualify as worthless losers?

In reality, it shouldn't make a crapping lick of difference who did what to deserve or not deserve medical assistance or treatment, though I don't doubt some people would try to argue that it does.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

SO Indiana is just killing themselves.
I live in Chicago so to me that's fine. All their small businesses who won't accept gays money anymore, foretting that their corporate competitors' policies override the law, will soon close, because they also forgget that 80% of straights disagree with them and will boycott them.

And now they're just Darwin Awardsing themselves right out of any of the above even having time to play itself out.
F'n brilliant, Indiana. Just stop trying to do things. You're no good at any of them.

I have an old friend from China whose brother was an opium addict and was shot by the communist authorities for not giving up the addiction.Leftisim to the extreme.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You know, if those idiots would stop using IV drugs, this wouldn't have happened.

Now, the state is scrambling to erect pop-up clinics to combat an unprecedented HIV epidemic caused by intravenous drug use.

Did they contract HIV because they "didn't get proper care" or did they get HIV because of their own irresponsible decisions?

Why blame a state government trying to cut costs because the economy sucks but not level any blame on the idiots who shoot themselves up with dirty needles?


Personal responsibility--what is that?

That's true, but remember a lot of people that far down the junkie road got there already being mentally ill (truly mentally ill, not modern "I felt sad when my grandma died" mentally ill.)

I knew a guy, through a friend of mine who spent several years in Iraq watching people die through his sniper scope. When he returned, his parents quickly turned him away. He was tortured by the lives he had extinguished. Eventually he found solace among his fellow homeless and heroin. He hated it, but he couldn't continue on living in the real world. There's services, but without the right support, you don't necessarily make the best decisions when every waking moment is filled with visions of the people you killed.

PTSD isn't the only means. Very few serious junkies are just selfish people who have in to feel-good partying so completely that they become dirty needle junkies. It's desperation and insanity which leads there. At least on the US, our government is fiscally responsible (on the line item of "funds for mental health facilities.)

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

But I have every right to advocate for it to not go to orgs like PP, and states like Indiana have every right to decide to listen to that advocacy.

By all means you can voice your opinion, but due to being a representative government the elected officials don't have to actually listen to your opinion.

Also, just because PP was funding HIV testing and then suddenly stopped HIV cases rose doesn't mean that there is causation. It could also be simple correlation, and since anyone and everyone on the left is examining Indiana with their partisan blinders on, PP felt that they might be able to get their gravy train on again.

Certainly, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. I understand that, but that is a REMARKABLE coincidence. Navydoc already pointed out earlier in the thread that the HIV epidemic was noticed before the PP angle was pointed out. Now that the PP angle has been pointed out though, news agencies are picking up on it. I've already posted a second link in the thread that also noticed this problem and it clearly wasn't biased towards PP.

As we've seen in the past, just because someone is HIV positive doesn't mean they know or care.

Some certainly do care though. The ones that don't care are already resigned to their fate. The ones that care are hoping they can change it. I would like those people to be helped by the resources available. Not everyone addicted to the needle has accepted their fate you know?

originally posted by: Digital_Reality
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You don't have a choice where your tax money goes to

Oh yes WE do. This is a big problem and a common misconception. The proof of this is PP not being in this city anymore. Now that choice is being exploited and exaggerated when it is not the actual cause of this HIV "epidemic". The problem is needles, drugs and unsafe sex. Not PP getting kicked out of town. Don't get it twisted. If PP is the last line of defense for these people the city has failed them.

Yea. The city failed them. I thought that was obvious? Canceling PP may not be the direct cause of this epidemic, but it damn well didn't help the situation and by all accounts probably made it worse.

originally posted by: Digital_Reality

I was with you until this statement. Please show us an example of this being accepted or happening where the mom is not under a jail. Please don't cite botched C-sections. I have to deny ignorance here.

Here ya go.

Woman NOT cited for murder after cutting a baby from the mother's woumb.


Mom is recovering from the attack.

Attacker is in prison.

Baby is dead.

NO charges to the attacker for murdering the baby...charges for attacking the mother, but no justice for the murdered infant.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: Digital_Reality

That's where you anti-abortionist crowed lose me.

You can't have both ways, either your pro life or anti life. Whether that life hasn't even witnessed one rotation of the sun, or has witnessed over 20 is completely irreverent, there still that same entity.

This would be a good point if there were not so many people (adults) hell-bent on destroying themselves.

We all have God-given freedom of will, and a helping hand can only be extended as far as a person is willing to grab it.

Short of institutionalization, there is absolutely nothing that can be done to absolutely prevent a person from making lethal decisions.

originally posted by: Seamrog
Short of institutionalization, there is absolutely nothing that can be done to absolutely prevent a person from making lethal decisions.

Hence 'harm reduction programmes"?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, places like PP are supposed to prevent HIV outbreaks?

a reply to: Seamrog

Mom is recovering from the attack.

Attacker is in prison.

Baby is dead.

Fetus is dead. Sad as this is, no "person" was killed.

Colorado state law does not recognize a fetus as a person, unless it is capable of surviving for a period of time outside the womb, a prosecutor said then.

Neither does the Supreme Court.

Thankfully, here in the USA we value the life of autonomous persons, already born, above fetuses. We have no "fetal personage laws", and they fail miserable every time they're introduced to public vote.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

But once that fetus grows up and becomes a frustrated drug addicted individual without the skills to thrive though life (because they where raised by a mother who knew full well she didn't have what it takes to raise a healthy & productive individual), you then become cold & unemphatic and want this individual to rot away in the gutter or a jail cell.

Single mom who gave me up to the foster system at 8 years old because it was too much on her. I spent my life bouncing from home to foster home. We never had food and my life sucked as a child.

As of now I am very successful with a wife and two kids. I do IT consulting for some of the wealthiest people in the country. I would not trade my life for anything. I sure am glad I did not get aborted based on that line of reasoning.

Everybody should have a chance. Who are you to think you know how someones life will turn out? Almost all of the most successful people in the world started out with less than zero or came from the gutter. Your flawed.

originally posted by: Digital_Reality
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

But once that fetus grows up and becomes a frustrated drug addicted individual without the skills to thrive though life (because they where raised by a mother who knew full well she didn't have what it takes to raise a healthy & productive individual), you then become cold & unemphatic and want this individual to rot away in the gutter or a jail cell.

Single mom who gave me up to the foster system at 8 years old because it was too much on her. I spent my life bouncing from home to foster home. We never had food and my life sucked as a child.

As of now I am very successful with a wife and two kids. I do IT consulting for some of the wealthiest people in the country. I would not trade my life for anything. I sure am glad I did not get aborted based on that line of reasoning.

Everybody should have a chance. Who are you to think you know how someones life will turn out? Almost all of the most successful people in the world started out with less than zero or came from the gutter. Your flawed.

Had you been aborted someone else would have taken your place and there would have been no change to society. Your chance means someone else didn't get one.

a reply to: Aazadan

Are you serious with that response?????

I was also given up for adoption and not aborted. And I thank God every day that my birth mother loved me enough to give me the chance of life. Are you saying that you know the plan and it does not matter what we do?

Good, then it was decided LONG ago....When you leave someone else will come along so I want you NO WHERE near me.