Feminists request use of "jazz hands" rather than clapping to avoid triggering "anxiety" [OP UPD

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: STTesc
a reply to: Gryphon66

This has nothing to do with feminism. Feminism isn't about clapping. It's not about birth control, abortion, hating men or entertainment. It's not about the first female president, placing your job first or refusing to allow a man to "hold you back". Feminism is about empowering women, it always has been. You're not on some team because you're a woman, it's not about gender. We're all apart of the same species and what feminism is being used as is a tool of divide and conquer, much like the whole race thing. It's being used as a witch hunt.

So, let's empower women ... so long as they act and behave as your own dictates about what "feminism is and isn't" are followed? You don't get to tell them what they can believe, and you don't get to define their experiences for them.

You're speaking in absolutes. You're an extremist. People don't agree with YOUR definition of Feminism.

/shrug

Next?

Haha I'm an extremist. Wow.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: InTheLight

Now, as I have requested several times, apply that same logic to any other group, please. Would there ever be an allowable scenario in which a group could say "We need to exclude blacks because we don't want a combative scene" and NOT be drug onto the carpet over it? If yes, then what would that scenario involve? If no, then why is one form of blunt discrimination acceptable while other forms are forbidden?

But that's not the topic here, however sexism, such as the 'lad culture' within universities, that affect many different groups of people, in their daily lives and in particular their education and future success is.

www.nus.org.uk...

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I don't agree with those talking points as written. I would, however, like to see a transcript of what they meant with those points so I don't jump the gun on anything.

You didn't hesitate to jump the gun on Breitbart, so why concern yourself with it now? By all means, feel free to jump it and explain your thoughts regarding the "women only safe zones." I'm sincerely interested to know how your mental model has changed now that "fabricated sensationalism" has been unseated from the excuse list.

I just told you it is still fabricated sensationalism. The article conflated a different issue with the one at hand to try to smear the women asking for assistance. That was the entire point of even mentioning the no men zones.

Here's what the sensationalist Brietbart article says about "closed spaces"

The NUS has already taken a number of steps to protect its vulnerable women in the past. At their main conference they operate a “women-only safe space” where delegates who feel unable to be near men can hang around together.

So anyone here who's trumpeting that the Breitbart article was addressing the agenda point "Motion 404" is QUOTE SIMPLY misrepresenting the truth. Breitbart obviously didn't research the matter that deeply because what was presented in the OP is obviously a hit piece.

Boy, did it find it's groove here on ATS, I'm sad to admit.

Do you realize that this group that has you all so flustered is a university STUDENT group? They're talking about creating these "safe spaces" in small areas of their campuses? They're not talking about cordoning off men into some sort of Andronic Ghetto, for gravy's sakes ...

Let's be honest if nothing else ... we've already established here that its okay to ridicule others for their appearance, their disabilities, and so on.

Can we at least stick to the truth?

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
GLBT groups pull crap like this all the time. "I just want to be treated like everyone else so here is a list of special treatment I would like that is specific to my gender or orientation"

What special, unique rights are the gay community trying to procure? Marriage?

Apparently we're going after college grants and our own cable channels, if you can believe it.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Exactly. Breitbart positioned it like those zones are already in effect when in reality they were just talking points of the meeting. Then they used that sensationalism to smear women with GAD who asked for some assistance so they can also experience the meeting like everyone else.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Here's what the sensationalist Brietbart article says about "closed spaces"

The NUS has already taken a number of steps to protect its vulnerable women in the past. At their main conference they operate a “women-only safe space” where delegates who feel unable to be near men can hang around together.

So anyone here who's trumpeting that the Breitbart article was addressing the agenda point "Motion 404" is QUOTE SIMPLY misrepresenting the truth. Breitbart obviously didn't research the matter that deeply because what was presented in the OP is obviously a hit piece.

No, no we're not and yes, yes Breitbart clearly did their research.

Do you realize that this group that has you all so flustered is a university STUDENT group? They're talking about creating these "safe spaces" in small areas of their campuses? They're not talking about cordoning off men into some sort of Andronic Ghetto, for gravy's sakes ...

Children are our future. If it was old farts, even old farts in high positions, spouting this pablum, it wouldn't be concerning. When you see the minds of the young people being warped by this discriminatory, hateful horsecrap, however, it becomes an issue.

Can we at least stick to the truth?

Not while people are playing the "pretend any inconvenient question is a different topic and refuse to answer" game of disingenuousness, we can't.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Does the Breitbart article refer in any way to Motion 404 or anything else on the agenda you're so pleased to have discovered? No.

Does the Breitbart article refer to any other closed space other than a female only "zone" at the conference? No.

Does the Breitbart article offer a fair assessment of anything other than sensationalizing the manufactured issue about the "jazz hands"? No.

I believe that you're mistaken in your assertions.

These particular young people are the ones who have educated themselves and are standing up for their own rights. You take one motion out of how many? 20, 30? and you want to hype that to prove the insinuations you were glorifying in your OP. I submit that you have no concern over whether a group of college students decide to wave their hands instead of clapping, but that your real agenda here, as was the Breitbart article's, is pure right-wing extremism directed against feminists.

Are you familiar at all with what the National Union of Students actually is in the UK? Here you go:

The National Union of Students (NUS) is a voluntary membership organisation which makes a real difference to the lives of students and its member students' unions.

We are a confederation of 600 students' unions, amounting to more than 95 percent of all higher and further education unions in the UK. Through our member students' unions, we represent the interests of more than seven million students.

NUS champions students to shape the future of education – and create a better world. We promote, defend and extend student rights.

We fight discrimination, isolation and injustice. Through practical information and national action, we make sure students can thrive.

We support and strengthen students and their unions. We are informed – developing research that influences national policy.

We are active – taking on all the issues that affect students’ lives now and in future.We know students.

We are students.We are 7 million student voices.

Did Breitbart mention any of those facts? Or that this Women's Conference that has got you all turned out of the box is just one event of many that this co-educational group of students (YES, the group is made up of both MEN AND WOMEN) sponsors throughout the year in the UK?

No?

Hmmm... how could their careful research have missed that issue, one wonders. Or that this Women's Conference is but of MANY FUNCTIONS this 7 MILLION MEMBER STRONG group handles in the UK.

Further, NUS tends to have a make up of students that are distinctively Labour Party in the UK.

That tells us all we need to know about this faux OUTRAGE about students being corrupted.

(Hint: They're not CONSERVATIVE enough. Or, probably at this point, UKIP enough.)

a reply to: InTheLight

“We live with a level of fear of expressing ourselves or speaking out, or voicing our real opinions. And consequently we’re looking for a situation where we can put down that fear and express ourselves freely, have some space where it’s okay to say what you really think. It’s not about everybody agreeing or disagreeing or everybody having the same opinion, it’s about being able to listen and share in a way that somehow in mixed company always ends up in a more combative scenario; somebody’s got to be right and somebody’s got to be wrong.”

If you attribute that quote to a "white pride" person, it's VERY not okay. But when it's Men Vs. Women it's somehow acceptable. I really don't understand it.

a reply to: STTesc

I beg your pardon. I did the same thing to you I'm citing you for doing to the Feminists.

I don't know whether you're an extremist or not.

Your post that I responded to is full of absolutisms. I know that in reality you're only sharing your OPINION of what Feminism is and isn't ... but you presented it as if it were the full facts for everyone everywhere.

But, apologies where apologies are due. I had no right to call you an extremist on the basis of one post.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

It's not bashing feminism. It's bashing misandry.

I'm all for feminism. Well, no scratch that. Feminism today is a movement that means to place women ABOVE men. I'm all for HUMANISM. All genders are equal, no exceptions. Anyone who advocates for TRUE equality shouldn't be calling themselves a feminist. That movement has been hijacked by misandrists.

Dude, this meeting of the NUS women has NOTHING to do with feminism, yet the OP makes out like its FEMINISTS that have organised this get together to change the applause as we know it.

Its just a thread looking to bash feminism. Its painfully obvious.

The thread I think has moved in a differing direction from "Feminists want to change the way you clap" (Which is doubt was the intent of the thread in the first place) and onto the subject of feminism as a whole, I believe. I can see where you would take this thread as a sort of dogwhistle for "FEMINISTS BAD". And frankly I agree. Feminism isn't what it was 30, hell even 10 years ago. I called myself a feminist for a long time until it became associated with manhating misandrists who want to castrate every man ever or put them into camps.

There will always be radicals that will exist in all groups and sections of society - We shouldnt give them air time. Discussing radical feminism is a waste of time, i dont really see it as a threat, its not like they will ever realistically have "men-free zones" ?? Its the equivalent of radical muslims thinking they'll put the whole of the UK under sharia law, just isnt going to happen.

Yes, but once the radicals became the loudest and most outspoken voice, I distanced myself from the movement. And you're right, it IS frighteningly like radical Muslim. The loudest among them have the stage right now. The problem with Feminism and radical Feminism is that the more moderate feminists either aren't speaking up and saying "Hey, guys. Not all men are bad". Or they're bullying and shamed into silent acceptance. I'm not okay with that.

A response from the NUS Women's Conference:

This is indicative of the successful and all too common derailing of feminism and women’s activism. If you read all of @womcam’s tweets from conference, you will see the wide variety of issues which we were debating, challenging, and learning how to move forward on. By singling out this one tweet, it almost seems like the trolls were sitting at their computers waiting for something which they could jump on and ridicule.

Jazz Hands, Clapping & Twitter Trolls: The Unsuccessful Derailing of NUS Women’s Conference

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Feminists just want everyone to bow down to them. They are offended by pretty much everything and make themselves difficult to be around.

This is the typical demand of equal rights by lobbying for special conditions. GLBT groups pull crap like this all the time. "I just want to be treated like everyone else so here is a list of special treatment I would like that is specific to my gender or orientation"

I'm curious

What items are on this "list" that you would label as "special treatment" ?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

It's not bashing feminism. It's bashing misandry.

I'm all for feminism. Well, no scratch that. Feminism today is a movement that means to place women ABOVE men. I'm all for HUMANISM. All genders are equal, no exceptions. Anyone who advocates for TRUE equality shouldn't be calling themselves a feminist. That movement has been hijacked by misandrists.

Dude, this meeting of the NUS women has NOTHING to do with feminism, yet the OP makes out like its FEMINISTS that have organised this get together to change the applause as we know it.

Its just a thread looking to bash feminism. Its painfully obvious.

The thread I think has moved in a differing direction from "Feminists want to change the way you clap" (Which is doubt was the intent of the thread in the first place) and onto the subject of feminism as a whole, I believe. I can see where you would take this thread as a sort of dogwhistle for "FEMINISTS BAD". And frankly I agree. Feminism isn't what it was 30, hell even 10 years ago. I called myself a feminist for a long time until it became associated with manhating misandrists who want to castrate every man ever or put them into camps.

There will always be radicals that will exist in all groups and sections of society - We shouldnt give them air time. Discussing radical feminism is a waste of time, i dont really see it as a threat, its not like they will ever realistically have "men-free zones" ?? Its the equivalent of radical muslims thinking they'll put the whole of the UK under sharia law, just isnt going to happen.

Yes, but once the radicals became the loudest and most outspoken voice, I distanced myself from the movement. And you're right, it IS frighteningly like radical Muslim. The loudest among them have the stage right now. The problem with Feminism and radical Feminism is that the more moderate feminists either aren't speaking up and saying "Hey, guys. Not all men are bad". Or they're bullying and shamed into silent acceptance. I'm not okay with that.

There is no "feminism" and "radical feminism"
There is simply feminism which is nothing more than advocating for equal political, social, and economic rights as men.
The so-called radical feminism isn't feminism - it is misandry.

a reply to: Gryphon66

To my knowledge, none of the NUS groups outside the Women's group participate in discriminatory policies and actions, so why would Breitbart (or anyone else) need to mention them? I'm surprised to see NUS doesn't have a "Men's Conference"... hmm, well, no matter, hopefully there aren't many male students too effected by females to be in shared spaces with them. Nonetheless, I can't help but notice males seem to be the only people being openly called out here. I have a dream. A dream of a day when our sons and daughters will not be judged and segregated in the name of equality based on the presence or lack of physical testicles, but by the content of their character alone.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
Agreed, I have the same thoughts.
...as in the personal example I posted a page back www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No I 'm against THIS ...www.youtube.com...
and P.C. garbage that forments it.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Gryphon66

To my knowledge, none of the NUS groups outside the Women's group participate in discriminatory policies and actions, so why would Breitbart (or anyone else) need to mention them? I'm surprised to see NUS doesn't have a "Men's Conference"... hmm, well, no matter, hopefully there aren't many male students too effected by females to be in shared spaces with them. Nonetheless, I can't help but notice males seem to be the only people being openly called out here. I have a dream. A dream of a day when our sons and daughters will not be judged and segregated in the name of equality based on the presence or lack of physical testicles, but by the content of their character alone.

So the Breitbart article only wanted to focus on the same thing that every other right-wing outlet is focusing on? They didn't provide ANY background to understand that the NUS is a CO-ED group of over 7 million students nationwide in Britain, they on'y wanted to focus on one area at one event that promotes the "feminists are rabid discriminators" meme that they and (your OP) is fronting for?

They don't need to explain to American audiences that the photograph in the article is not in anyway indicative of what the NUS is as a whole or what it stands for?

The tweets happened at a Women's Conference ... a meeting devoted particularly to examining women's issues. The most extreme photo is I'm sure the one that was used here, because it's important to marginalize what's actually going on.

If the men of the NUS want to have their own conference, I'm sure they can. It's a LIBERAL group.

I will be a bit idealistic for the moment and share in your dream of equality.

Equality, however, does not yet exist and will not exist until those groups that have been traditionally excluded continue to fight their way back to the table.

I find it very disturbing, personally giving you credit for speaking the truth in this last post of yours, that some one who looks forward to that far off day of equality would participate in what is obviously and overtly nothing more than a finely focused hit piece (your OP.)

But that's me; your mileage will vary.

WTF is this drivel?

Motion 202: Prison Abolition is a Feminist Issue Submitted by: Edinburgh University Students’ Association Conference Believes:
1. Prison does not work; 47% of prisoners reoffend within one year. [1]
2. Justice Minister Chris Grayling has tried to ban books from prisons. [2]
3. 46% of women in prison are survivors of domestic abuse. [3]
4. 53% of women in prison are survivors of sexual violence. [4]
5. 49% of women in prison have depression or anxiety. [5]
6. 67% of women in prison for killing somebody close to them were abused by that person. [6]
7. 46% of women in prison reported attempting suicide at some point in their lives. [7]
8. Trans people are regularly incarcerated in the wrong gendered prison and/or denied hormone therapy. [8]
9. Children of prisoners are three times more likely to have a mental illness than other children. [9]
10. 66% of women in prison have dependent children under 18. [10]
11. In the last decade the women’s prison population has gone up by 33%, with two thirds being in prison for non-violent offences. [11]
12. As many as 90% of prisoners report experiencing some kind of mental illness. [12]
13. Women in prison are 11 times more likely to self-harm than men in prison. [13]
14. The prison-industrial complex* is a fundamentally unjust system; one that disproportionately affects and harms women, people of colour, LGBTQI+, sex worker, trans and working-class communities.
15. The ruling class determine what warrants incarceration; as such prisons do not work in our interests.
16. Prison is about punishment, not reformation or justice.
17. Prison is a system of brutality that attacks and takes advantage of the already vulnerable for the profit of private companies.
18. Austerity, coupled with cuts to legal aid will mean the incarceration of many more people.
19. Immigration, sex work and drug possession are key areas where people are incarcerated for non-violent crimes, posing no danger to the public.
20. People are politically targeted by the state and unfairly incarcerated.

Conference Resolves:
1. To call for the abolition of the prison-industrial complex.
2. To emphasise community and transformative justice as a replacement for state incarceration.
3. To assist any organisations working to stop the building of a new women’s prison in Inverclyde.
4. To offer financial assistance to organisations including but not limited to The Empty Cages Collective.
5. To oppose proposed regressive prison reforms.
6. To support initiatives that write letters of solidarity to prisoners.

s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com...

So if you're a woman you get a free pass from prison but if your a straight white male then tough?
Is this equality now?

Anyone sticking up for this is a sexist, racist bigot!

a reply to: AgentSmith

Talk about drivel ... did you miss this in your own cut-and-paste frenzy?

Conference Resolves:
1. To call for the abolition of the prison-industrial complex.
2. To emphasise community and transformative justice as a replacement for state incarceration.
3. To assist any organisations working to stop the building of a new women’s prison in Inverclyde.
4. To offer financial assistance to organisations including but not limited to The Empty Cages Collective.
5. To oppose proposed regressive prison reforms.
6. To support initiatives that write letters of solidarity to prisoners.

This is what they want to accomplish. They're activists after all.

Tell me, can you quote from those six resolutions were it says "but the straight white males can go hang"?

Know why? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SAY THAT!