New Study Indicates Gulf Stream Shutting Down Due to Global Warming

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: mc_squared

Great OP and great work. Thanks much. ...but I'm with BFFTexan - doesn't the slowdown and cooling, esp of the Labrador sea predict a mini-ice age there?


F&S&

Thanks soficrow - from what I've read so far the authors seem pretty certain it won't play out that way, but I agree with Kali's post on the first page that it could possibly in the short term. We have evidence that this happened in the past, so there's that, but this time around there are way more competing variables so it's really tough to say. PS nice avatar - looks like you're prepped one way or the other lol.

a reply to: mc_squared

Yes, I agree the Gulf Stream is shutting down and climate will change. Two questions I have, is it due to man-made global warming and is this really new research or is there perhaps prior art explaining this theory?

Taking the second question first, the earliest reference I could find (ok I didn't look very hard) was the 1870 study mentioned at length by Jules Verne in 20,000 leagues under the sea. So, it seems that not only are they rehashing old research, but also climate doesn't change very fast at all. Those of you inclined to panic, have already had two lifetimes of nothing happening!

Then modern science has come up with new solutions since Monsieur Verne's day. I'm talking about things like central heating and moving somewhere less cold.

Phew, that's a relief. Now to the first question - is it man-made? A simple look at the dates shows us that the theory predates the motor car and is pretty early in the days of steam, so at worst were probably looking at wood and coal fires heating a relatively small number of homes. I think we can reject this part of the theory too.

In short, there's nothing to worry about and it's not our fault.

Sleep easy guys.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Wet as in flooding...

I wonder if the gulf oil spill contributed much.

👣

a reply to: supermouse

Well if you'd bothered looking at the info in the OP, for example the paper's abstract:

Possible changes in Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) provide a key source of uncertainty regarding future climate change. Maps of temperature trends over the twentieth century show a conspicuous region of cooling in the northern Atlantic. Here we present multiple lines of evidence suggesting that this cooling may be due to a reduction in the AMOC over the twentieth century and particularly after 1970. Since 1990 the AMOC seems to have partly recovered. This time evolution is consistently suggested by an AMOC index based on sea surface temperatures, by the hemispheric temperature difference, by coral-based proxies and by oceanic measurements. We discuss a possible contribution of the melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet to the slowdown. Using a multi-proxy temperature reconstruction for the AMOC index suggests that the AMOC weakness after 1975 is an unprecedented event in the past millennium (p > 0.99). Further melting of Greenland in the coming decades could contribute to further weakening of the AMOC.

You'd see this conclusion is based on actual data, not 19th century works of fiction.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Wet as in flooding...

So I move a bit west.

a reply to: Elementalist

Gaia maybe - if the Grand Conveyer Current goes all bets on 'life' are off. Humanity, however, has not faced these conditions before nor can she survive them.

a reply to: supermouse

Even if there are other factors involved, man's impact on the Climate is irrefutable and it is in our power to mitigate the damage.

It's not just warming that is killing our climate and oceans, it's pollution of all types and we must stop turning the planet into a toxic waste dump. A good beginning would be to put an end to war as the military is the biggest source of pollution on the planet.

a reply to: mc_squared

For some reason I knew this topic would come up so I save a few links relative to the issue.

Bugs in the ice sheets: Melting glaciers liberate ancient bacteria
www.dailyclimate.org...

Ancient plants reawaken: Plants exposed by retreating glaciers regrowing after centuries entombed under ice
www.sciencedaily.com...

Splitting Hairs

Fragments of mitochondrial DNA from deer hair found on the clothing of an ice-entombed mummy offer a glimpse into Copper Age ecology.
www.the-scientist.com.../articleNo/40848/title/Splitting-Hairs/

Researchers find 400 year old Ice Age plants in Arctic able to grow anew as glaciers retreat
phys.org...

Ancient 1,000-Year-Old Forest Revealed Beneath Melting Alaskan Glacier

Read more: Ancient 1,000-Year-Old Forest Revealed Beneath Melting Alaskan Glacier | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building
inhabitat.com...

Items lost in the Stone Age are found in melting glaciers
sciencenordic.com...

Ancient forest revealed 1,000 years after being 'entombed' in gravel as Alaskan glacier melts
Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Alpine melt reveals ancient life
news.bbc.co.uk...

Last but not least,

Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth'? -- A $30,000 Utility Bill
abcnews.go.com...

Now shouldn't all of this tell you that the earth has already been there and done that thousands of years ago?

Bio mass revealed from glacier melt that thrived in those areas thousands of years ago, long before modern man even had a chance to affect the weather.

Do I believe in man made global warming? NO! Not a chance!

www.dailymail.co.uk... s_campaign=bookmark-chromeext

If the conveyor belt is slowing down as they say then the upper east coast are going to start seeing the effects fairly soon especially when storms occur because the conveyor pulls a lot of water away from that area.

I wonder if that will start changing some people minds when it becomes apparent.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: CharlesT


Patrick Moore lied about being a co-founder of Greenpeace and is a known paid shill for Heartland. If you insist on taking his word that is fine but below is a piece of evidence showing he is lying about his credentials at the very least, but just maybe he has better morals on his other claims.

Greetings Flying Kitty Dude...

I've recently become willing to keep an open mind on the EXACT science of Gobal Warming and it's attendant drastic weather (look-up the difference) involved in the light of the coming world war over Arctic resources. However, if my suspecions are in anyway accurate, then Global Warming is even more manmade then previously believed ( and it would explain why past (and current??) US administrations have a gag order on climate science).

Whatever the cause(s), if we as a species along with life as we know it are to survive (on this planet), we need to resist and reverse the 'human-assisted' climate change.

Do you really want Greed (and very good long-term propoganda) to be the distruction of life. But then I suppose this man-assisted 'tera-forming' is good if you flourish in a hot and toxic clime.

a reply to: FyreByrd

What? I'm not sure why your post is linked to a post I have already long redacted but whatever floats your boat.

originally posted by: mc_squared
a reply to: Kali74

Nice. Hansen was the one who introduced me to the concept as well, in this op-ed he did several years ago:

Cap and Fade


He tears apart cap & trade and suggests "fee and dividend" instead. Really kind of throws a wet blanket on the "all scientists are just making this up for the money" conspiracy. I believe Hansen is actually a registered Republican as well (or at least used to be...)

Topic drift.... You're allowing propoganda tools to pull you off the real subject "Slowing Major Ocean Currents" not "what to do" "whos at fault" "taxes" etc.

Focus is the only way to get the facts out....

(I get sucked in all the time too, but it's a tactic not a valid counter-argument).

Well presented topic.

a reply to: FyreByrd

I can't agree with your position on global warming but you are dead right about pollution, to a degree. The main source of pollution is not the military, it's plastic #1 and nuclear pollution from failed reactors #2, I/E Chernobyl and Fukushima to be more specific. The Fukushima disaster has been spewing radiation into the Pacific and actually into the entire Northern Hemisphere for years now, is turning the Pacific Ocean into a desert waste land and governments are brushing that issue asside.

enenews.com...

Check it out.

a reply to: mc_squared

Nice work Columbo. Something like 95% of the "geenhouse gas" in the atmosphere happens to be H2O (water vapor). Without it the earth would be mostly if not completely uninhabitable. Consider the moons atmosphere is comprised of Sodium and Potassium; Not greenhouse gasses. The average temperature range on the moon is between -387 Fareheight at night to 253 farenheight during the day. Bottom line: we need greenhouse gasses to some extent on earth or we wouldn't exist.

Global warming/cooling is backed by science as is the "greenhouse effect". With or without human contributions it should be noted. My issue is not with the science. Its with the extraction of imagery from artifact and absence of any raw factual data, in order to commercialize this agenda. We would be foolish to think that as a population we can control something such as "the ocean conveyor".

Al Gore definitely was quoted in 2009 stating the polar caps would be completely melted within 5-7 years btw. I would try to bury that one instead of defend it. No speech, march or rally has ever cured a disease or affected climate change so its not worth bringing up.

FWIW, I do share the opinion of others on pollution. That's a much bigger concern to me because unlike climate change it is something we can directly control.




Sincerely,
PCC
( Pavlovian Climate Crank )

a reply to: Stormdancer777

I met a scientist in Poole Harbour - other side of the pond - who was taking measurements with a hell of a lot of equipment. He said about the gulf stream and the worry of the salt getting diluted and it simply freezing up especially around my dear little home. He also was taking measurement of the sun but it was so over my head I couldn't take it all in.

This was fifteen years ago now so what else has happened? I live in an area where we have some of the most expensive houses in the UK built on the sand yet they are still standing with so sign of the sand eroding under an increasing sea level.

a reply to: mc_squared

seems pretty worrying , however its our own fault, until we remove our dependency on the industry which has helped increase the rate at which the earth warms naturally there is no real way to combat this change, unless we create some huge machines which help the conveyor work when it fails naturally

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Where is this coming from I read this ten years ago.

File it along with every other global warming doom porn scare that hasn't come true. They have to keep making up new ones so people will forget none of the previous ones actually happened.

I know first hand that something is amiss. The last two years the winters have been brutal, record breaking, volatile messes on the eastern side of North America. Im in Ontario where we are used to having some winter in January and Feb but the last two years have broken records all over the place. I know the eastern seaboard of the US is sharing our misery and the coast has been destroyed with snow.

One of the theories I read that I found interesting was that global warming was altering the jet stream flow that we traditionally were used to. In that the artic blasts were lingering around longer, and moving farther south, then they had before. Usually the artic air masses were punted out by the gulfstream, but they required drastically different temperatures to do so. With the artic warming up, apparently the temps aren't as far apart anymore and this is effecting how they relate to one another.

Interesting times indeed. Im moving to costa rica if this continues. Not a fan of winter at all.

.....and here's a look at today's forecast........
Dark this evening through tonight, patches of light beginning in the wee hours of the morning, strengthening until evening.

Yawn.

And we can't change that either.