World No Longer Bound to Defend Israel Internationally

originally posted by: Ironhawke
a reply to: Nikola014

A bit simplistic, that. Hamas' reactions (note that word?) stems from Israeli reactions to Hamas reactions to Israeli reactions to..ad nauseum. Blaming everything on one side is, in a certain sense, condoning the actions of the other.

This is bull crap. Just glad I have over 45 years watching what goes on over there. The very large % of folks on this thread putting all the weight on Israle come off as geese waking up just this morning.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
Not sure why Obama is so upset about this election. It has given Israel-haters an excuse to condemn the Israeli people along with Netanyahu.

Guess that means you guys don't have to follow up your anti-semitism with the 'I don't hate all Jews, just the Zionists' disclaimer. Because the only good Jew is the one who votes to give up his land, am I wrong?

For a person to be a good Jew then wouldn't they have to follow what their faith says? And their faith says that Jews shall not not have a nation of their own until the return of the Messiah. After all there is no such thing as a Jewish race just as there is no Christian or Muslim race.

This is not an accurate surmise of Hebrew scripture. Just saying. The prophets Ezekiel and Jeremiah cover the return and it is before the return of the Messiah. And there is a Jewish race and would be regardless of their religious affiliation. The idea that there is no Jew, no Greek ect is from Christian scriptures and has to do with Christianity and is another matter all together when compared to Hebrew prophets concerning the return of the Jews and Israelites to the land. The so called "Muslim" people in the east are referred to much more personally by tribe and race as well in Hebrew scripture. And make no mistake, the "Muslim" nations are aware of this racial and tribal issue and understand that it goes way beyond Islam in its scope.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: buster2010

And the biggest one is the United States of America, and I don't see people here demonizing the ordinary American, just their governments.

In my honest opinion, the hate against Jews is stronger now, than it has been during nazi times. People just mask it with saying they actually hate Zionists.

Yes its really sad to see so much hate demonstrated on a race whose is simply trying to demonstrate an identity outside of the diaspora in its ancestral homeland. Its just more self identity than many can stand. It reminds me of how the Celts struggled under Rome and later the others.

a reply to: Logarock

No. No, no and no, sorry, not how the game is played. WE are not "putting all the weight on Israel". What is being said is that Israel does share a goodly portion of the blame for what s happening. Hamas has a reaction to something Israel does, which is a reaction to something Hamas does, etc. However, there are quite a few folks who want to remove all blame whatsoever from Israel because Jesus or whatever. If you violate basic human rights and bomb the crap out of kids, sorry, you lose whatever moral high ground you might've had. And before you play the idiotic "Jew-hating anti-Semite" crap...1.) got Jewish family, 2.) Palestinians are Semitic too and 3.) that';s merely a diversionary tactic. Play nice, please, and as ever, DENY IGNORANCE.

a reply to: Ironhawke


When Hamas sets up rocket platforms near civilians, like right next door, its impossible not to blame them totally for any civilian deaths incurred during IDF retaliation. The Hamas tendency to do this is not something born from a tactical mind but a propaganda goal. And folks buy into it very well. Its almost a totally successful propaganda ruse even though its so easy to see through.

Thats why many of us will not buy into the women and children sympathy ploy. Although there is certainly sympathy for those folks that suffer, these sympathies will not be allowed to cloud the mind and emotion to the point that a clear view of Hamas as the real perpetrators of civilian suffering is not seen. Having no real tactical value or measurable tactical outcome the placing of rockets near homes, schools, hospitals ect in order to simply draw fire for the dead civilian photo and propaganda opportunity is an act of murder by Hamas upon their own people. They then run into destroyed structures and drag out the bodies of the neighbors and lay the mangled deceased out for film crews while a mob gathers and chants death to Israle.

You have a serious case of blinders. You say you don't buy "women and children" sympathy - even when it's American kids getting killed? No sympathy for kids here. You claim that's it's justified because they " chants death to Israle". Glad Israel doesn't do such. You claim " its impossible not to blame them totally for any civilian deaths incurred". Care to try again?

The point is this : it's easy - incredibly so - to point fingers at one side. Yes, hamas has done some atrocious things - never said they didn't. But Israel is hardly the innocent damsel she claims to be.

Sorry guys, I have been out of this thread for the last days. I have been working on new thread that I recommend you to read and watch.

I hope you had a real good debate around here. I appreciate all the attention that it was given.

Probably I will not be able to reply to you all, but thanks for your time, really.

originally posted by: Ironhawke
You have a serious case of blinders. You say you don't buy "women and children" sympathy - even when it's American kids getting killed? No sympathy for kids here. You claim that's it's justified because they " chants death to Israle". Glad Israel doesn't do such. You claim " its impossible not to blame them totally for any civilian deaths incurred". Care to try again?

The point is this : it's easy - incredibly so - to point fingers at one side. Yes, hamas has done some atrocious things - never said they didn't. But Israel is hardly the innocent damsel she claims to be.

Actually I didn't say anyone deserved anything because they chant "death to Israle". What I did say was that my sympathies for the innocent doesn't cloud my judgment on who is really responsible for their misery....Hamas.

Way to muddy the water there.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist

Guess that means you guys don't have to follow up your anti-semitism with the 'I don't hate all Jews, just the Zionists' disclaimer. Because the only good Jew is the one who votes to give up his land, am I wrong?

"HIS LAND" ??? And um, whose land was it in 1947 ???? Or in 1967 when the UN demanded Israel stop taking more land...


How do people such as your self honestly try to justify the invasion, eviction and relocation of MILLIONS?

WW2 and Hitler? Like a broken f@ckin record you lot are...

a reply to: 8675309jenny

I want a few million quid from Italy in reparations due to the Roman Invasion of Britain that murdered my ancestors.

It's my right...and if i don't get it, i'll start crying and wailing and repeatedly highlight how many of my ancestry died under the jack boot / Jack sandal of Roman occupation.

It was a long time ago granted, but if the Israelis can bleat on forever and use the misfortune of their European ancestry as a call to fund-raising Billions per annum, then so can i.

After i get my damages from Rome, i'm going after the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes next...bloody vikings, i wan't a few million quid off that lot as well, or i'll start crying and wailing about how bad my ancestry had it under the Vikings.

The point is...at some point it becomes history and part of a barbarian past.

What it most certainly is not, is a license to murder as many families and people as you want...crying and wailing about the misfortune of one's ancestry is not an excuse to visit exactly the same suffering on another people.