World No Longer Bound to Defend Israel Internationally

HMMMM, nothing said about the two faced Obama. Must be an ISIS supporter....

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Rhiannon

But that is not true anymore in our country's case. We respect that the native americans have just as much rights or more than we do to be here. But cant change history now, we are all here now. The Nez Perce tribe have become great capitalists (casinos, fisheries, tourist), great social programs, good schools. Netty said he does not want a two state solution at all. Can't work with that.

Yeah I know there's nothing that can be done about it now, 'we' totally destroyed their way of life. Chief Sealth's speech is framed in my house. I don't know that them becoming capitalist's is anything to be proud of compared to their original culture. But I do hope they rake in as much cash as possible from the masses.

I'm 100% behind their sovereignty, and although I don't really keep up on what's going on, I know a few years ago the gov't was pushing on trying to get their hands on American Indian $$$ through loopholes/new laws to try and tax them and grab more land.

I also don't think the Palestinians should be ruled over by the foreign invaders trying to massacre them.

The fact that money is stolen from me to support the murder of children, pisses me off more than I'm able to 'verbalize', there aren't enough swear words to express how much it pisses me off.

And since everyone else cherry picks things to believe from the bible or religious teaching... Mine is the one when Jesus warns that anyone that harms a child will be thrown into the Abyss. And this:

and ye may begin without to stand, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, lord, open to us, and he answering shall say to you, I have not known you whence ye are, 26 then ye may begin to say, We did eat before thee, and did drink, and in our broad places thou didst teach; 27 and he shall say, I say to you, I have not known you whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of the unrighteousness. 28 'There shall be there the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth, when ye may see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the reign of God, and yourselves being cast out without;

To anyone that hurts a child or supports it or ignores it... Rot in Hell you POS

a reply to: Annunak1

My worst fears have been realized in that you are likely American and that you actually vote.
Israel did not have a government during WW2. The nation, in the modern era, was founded in May 1948.

a reply to: voyger2

No one in the world wants to work with Hamas other than Iran who funded them.

You think Israel needs protection from the world? Hell the Islamic countries can't even deal with ISIS besides a real military with actually weapons. Plus, most people believe Israel is a nuclear nation.

Palestine is screwed as a land locked territory that no one wants to help. Why does Egypt close its borders to Palestine? Because Palestine is ran by a terrorist organization.

a reply to: voyger2

The Palestinian Authority has "lost" ten's of billions of dollars in aid from the EU, the USA and even Israel. (Did you know that Israel continues to provides hundreds of millions of dollars to the Palestinian gov?)

The people of Palestine have been for many years been held hostage. Held hostage not by the Israelis, but by the various factions of terrorist groups running their government and it is those factions who are to blame for the continued cycle of violence. They hide bomb making "factories" under hospitals, day care centers and anywhere else that provides "human shields". This is a known and well documented fact.

Israel today, as it has done for many years, provides water, electricity, medical care, tax benefits, jobs and humanitarian aid to Palestine. Arabs can become citizens of Israel. They can vote, hold jobs and receive welfare from the "oppressive" Israeli's.

In return, groups like Hamas and Hezbollah periodically begin campaigns of rocket attacks, bus bombs and incursions into homes to murder. They dig long, expensive tunnels to traffic weapons in order to be used against Israeli citizens. This has a pattern that in all honesty baffles me that not many have picked up on it.

1. Hamas/Hezbollah begins terror campaign.
2. Israel responds
3. The international community demands a halt to violence.
3. The Palestinian Authority receives Billions in aid to rebuild.
4. Billions are once again "lost" when the Palestinian Authority doesn't use the aid money to rebuild in full.

Meanwhile, idiots, morons and Jew haters fill sites like this with anti-israeli rhetoric because:
(a) They do not understand or do not want to understand the truth or
(b) They support Hamas/Hezbollah or
(c) They have a deep hatred of Jews like their forefather Adolph or
(d) They are not really against Israel as much as they are shi* stirrers on the internet.

Now, may I let you in on a secret? Something so profound and simple? I's a solution to the entire conflict.

The big "5" at the UN, (USA, Russia, China, France, Germany cut off aid to the Palestinian Government, taking billions of dollars instead and re-purposing it to a general relief fund to be used to:
1. Remove the existing palestinian Government via international pressure, subterfuge or force if necessary.
2. Create a 5 year plan to rebuild the infrastructure with international oversight, revamp the education system (You know, the one where Palestinian children are taught that Jews are no better than dogs and the purpose of the Arab is to kill the Jew) encourage higher education, develop natural resources and industry so that the Palestinian people may become a self reliant entity without need of international aid.
3. Encourage trade between Israel and the Palestinians
4. Develop future leaders and politicians who will encourage peaceful side by side living with their Israeli neighbors
5. Immediate and very public punishment for any faction or terrorist group that hinders the process.
6. The Arab nations of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Libya and any other who will are given special consideration for trade via the UN IF they publicly call for and openly support a free, prosperous Palestine AND a immediate halt to any terrorist activities against Israel. In return as well, contracts for the rebuilding of Palestine would be given to these nations first (under UN inspection).
6. Set a day where the leaders of those Arab nations will stand side by side with the Israeli leaders on international television and declare peace as they recognize the right of Israel to exist.
7. Israel patrols within it's own borders
8. The Un patrols within Palestinian borders for a period of 10 years in order to give the rebuilding to be completed and free elections to be held.
9. The hundreds of billions spent in the past to fund the corrupt Palestinian government are instead spent within the borders of those nations who in all fairness, need to consider their own citizens first.
10. The rest of the world closes an ugly chapter in it's history and celebrates the end to the Arab/Israeli bloodshed

The end.

a reply to: Annunak1

I also think that Israel in some way was involved in killing off jews in WW2.

I see you no your history. And yes that is how i meant to spell it.

a reply to: Rhiannon

I know how you feel. I went into the workforce in 1968. I figure just about every cent of taxes I paid in my life has gone to one war or another.

Palestinians and Jews are willing to kill every last person down to the last child to destroy each other over gods. American natives were not willing to sacrifice that much for gods.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: voyger2

Let's not get ahead of ourselves and jump to conclusions, and just be patient and see what happens.

I seriously doubt Israel will launch any new military offensive if Hammas doesn't provoke them first by doing anything stupid.

Oh please Israel has been caught launching rockets from Gaza and then blaming it on Hamas to give them a reason to attack. Anyone that trusts Benny is a fool.

It gets worse. In 2002, Israel was caught trying to set up an "Al-Qaeda" cell in Palestinian lands, so they could blame Arafat & use it as an excuse to finally crush him.

This was reported on the BBC's news site, too And note, this was in 2002. So try to remember the political climate of how feared & hated al-Qaeda was at the time.

It gets worse. In 2002, Israel was caught trying to set up an "Al-Qaeda" cell in Palestinian lands, so they could blame Arafat & use it as an excuse to finally crush him.

How were they caught ? Nothing was confirmed... just he said she said. Unfortunately this seems to be a very common tactic, finding people who may or may not do something illegal, and then facilitating their crimes and busting them for it. FBI does this crap all the time.

V

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: voyger2

Let's not get ahead of ourselves and jump to conclusions, and just be patient and see what happens.

Sir you just missed your own point by stating" Israel had the right to fight back against terroristic organization.

This is to you sir, Please let's not get ahead of ourselves and jump to conclusions.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: poncho1982
Oh here we go. Another "Let's all bash Israel, because it's the 'in' thing to do right now."

BN did say there would be no 2 state solution while he is PM. True. BUT he has always said that a 2 state solution is his wish, but it would only happen WITHOUT Hamas.

Hamas is the one stalling the process. All they would have to do is STOP attacking, and they would get their precious Palestinian State.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

Is Israel innocent? No. Are ANY of us innocent? No.

But the key to making this ALL go away is disbanding Hamas. But, they won't disband, and BN knows this, hence his statement.

In context people, keep things in context.

I think what your seeing is the transition back to before it was the "in thing" to let Israel get away with what ever it wanted. Cause, you know, after a few thousand unjustifiable homicides, people are starting to feel Israel does not deserve it's popularity and should maybe come back down to earth with the rest of us and face her crimes.

We have developed a resistance to the drugs Israel has been doping the world with. We can see clearly now.

You mean, Israel can't protect it's right to exist?

Interesting. They have this tiny sliver of land, surrounded by a sea of enemies, and THEY are the bad guys.

No, it is definitely the in thing to bash Israel right now. Because the right thing is to support a country that just wants to exist, without being under constant attack.

But, it's OK if you want to ignore history, that's your choice. And another "in thing" right now is to do just that. People only want to look back into history to a point that supports their opinion, and stop right there.

a reply to: voyger2

there's nothing left to do now except to impose crippling sanctions against the now openly Fascist Israeli Government, and issue International arrest warrants for Netanyahu and his Government.

The UN did and are doing a hell of a lot more to Russia and Putin, over a hell of a lot less. Hypocrisy is one thing, but to ignore the criminally obvious is patently ridiculous.

Arrest the Fascist Netanyahu, his traitorous Fascist Government and supporters for crimes against Humanity and let's get some real humanity going in the region and organise a real and lasting peace for the first time in many decades.

originally posted by: poncho1982

You mean, Israel can't protect it's right to exist?

Israel cannot protect - for themselves - another peoples land that was taken through military annexation. The excuse that Israel was attacked so they decided to keep the land of the attackers is not a legal defense. That is how violent gangs act over turf, not civilized nations in the modern world.

Interesting. They have this tiny sliver of land, surrounded by a sea of enemies, and THEY are the bad guys.

No. all that is left of PALESTINE is a tiny sliver of land. Zionist first bribed, terrorized, assassinated and even offered their service to HITLER to obtain that land. Yes that would make them bad guys, no doubt about it.

No, it is definitely the in thing to bash Israel right now. Because the right thing is to support a country that just wants to exist, without being under constant attack.

Yes, the right thing to do is to support a nation that just wants to exist. Palestine has almost been completely wiped off the map by Israel and Palestine deserves your support.

But, it's OK if you want to ignore history, that's your choice. And another "in thing" right now is to do just that. People only want to look back into history to a point that supports their opinion, and stop right there.

There is no need to understand history if you just follow international law that was established before Israels recent existence. Nobody cares about holy claims. Just the law.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: poncho1982

You mean, Israel can't protect it's right to exist?

Israel cannot protect - for themselves - another peoples land that was taken through military annexation. The excuse that Israel was attacked so they decided to keep the land of the attackers is not a legal defense. That is how violent gangs act over turf, not civilized nations in the modern world.

Interesting. They have this tiny sliver of land, surrounded by a sea of enemies, and THEY are the bad guys.

No. all that is left of PALESTINE is a tiny sliver of land. Zionist first bribed, terrorized, assassinated and even offered their service to HITLER to obtain that land. Yes that would make them bad guys, no doubt about it.

No, it is definitely the in thing to bash Israel right now. Because the right thing is to support a country that just wants to exist, without being under constant attack.

Yes, the right thing to do is to support a nation that just wants to exist. Palestine has almost been completely wiped off the map by Israel and Palestine deserves your support.

But, it's OK if you want to ignore history, that's your choice. And another "in thing" right now is to do just that. People only want to look back into history to a point that supports their opinion, and stop right there.

There is no need to understand history if you just follow international law that was established before Israels recent existence. Nobody cares about holy claims. Just the law.

And...there it is. So, even though Palestinians claim Historical rights, as well as Israelis, you only care about LAW. OK, well, how about the UN giving the land to Israel. That was the world majority speaking there.

Thank you for proving my point. I couldn't have done it better.

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: poncho1982

You mean, Israel can't protect it's right to exist?

Israel cannot protect - for themselves - another peoples land that was taken through military annexation. The excuse that Israel was attacked so they decided to keep the land of the attackers is not a legal defense. That is how violent gangs act over turf, not civilized nations in the modern world.

Interesting. They have this tiny sliver of land, surrounded by a sea of enemies, and THEY are the bad guys.

No. all that is left of PALESTINE is a tiny sliver of land. Zionist first bribed, terrorized, assassinated and even offered their service to HITLER to obtain that land. Yes that would make them bad guys, no doubt about it.

No, it is definitely the in thing to bash Israel right now. Because the right thing is to support a country that just wants to exist, without being under constant attack.

Yes, the right thing to do is to support a nation that just wants to exist. Palestine has almost been completely wiped off the map by Israel and Palestine deserves your support.

But, it's OK if you want to ignore history, that's your choice. And another "in thing" right now is to do just that. People only want to look back into history to a point that supports their opinion, and stop right there.

There is no need to understand history if you just follow international law that was established before Israels recent existence. Nobody cares about holy claims. Just the law.

And...there it is. So, even though Palestinians claim Historical rights, as well as Israelis, you only care about LAW. OK, well, how about the UN giving the land to Israel. That was the world majority speaking there.

Thank you for proving my point. I couldn't have done it better.

What does law have to do with majority? If Israel has majority support (doubt it) then they can use that majority to create a law that allows Israel to occupy another peoples land. Good luck. And speaking on the UN... How many resolutions have they made against Israel. 5? A dozen? 50? Over 100?

originally posted by: voyger2
The Israeli electorate had a choice to make. By re-electing a leader who publicly reneged on his commitments to peace and a two-state solution, they voted against peace. What remains now is how the Palestinians and the world will react to the closure of the charade that was called the peace process.

Quote from source:
« Palestinians have for years lost hope in the peace process and have been telling everyone who is willing to listen that the Israeli leaders are merely giving lip service to it as their own bulldozers were gobbling up Palestinian lands. The world kept on believing in the lip service until the Israeli public forced their leader to state his case in Hebrew to his own people. Now that we know that Israel is not a democracy to all its citizens (see Netanyahu's racist comments about Arab citizens) and Netanyahu never meant his commitment to a Palestinian state, the world must react.»

Quote from source:
«The efforts by the UN's non-member state of Palestine to pursue Israel in the International Criminal Court must now be seen as a positive nonviolent act that is much kinder to Israel than what should happen to an occupying power. Instead of criticizing Palestine, the US and other western countries must praise the actions of Mahmoud Abbas as a moderate peaceful alternative to various offers of resistance.»

Christiane Amanpour said on CNN Tuesday:

without support for a Palestinian state, the Israeli leader is offering no alternative except for an apartheid-like situation where four million Palestinian under Israeli military control have no political rights.

Attempts to say that the conflict can be resolved if both parties just sit down and talk was based on the assumption that Israel is a democratic state for all its citizens and thus can't accept to politically disenfranchise another people and that the state of Israel accepts to replace the occupation with an independent Palestinian state. Both these assumptions have been wiped by Netanyahu and therefore Palestinians are no longer bound by the need to continue to pretend that the conflict can be solved simply through direct Palestinian-Israeli engagement.

The role and the responsibilities of the international community to resolve a conflict that all agree has poisoned the air in the Middle East region is now paramount. It is no longer acceptable that international instruments such as the Security Council and the International Criminal Court be disabled in favor of Israel. No one country should be allowed to be above international law. And Israel has now lost any chance of world powers protecting it from international justice.

World No Longer Bound to Defend Israel Internationally

Whats your opinion ATS?

Well the world was not bound probably long before that. Remember, the UNGA has passed a LOT of resolutions condemning various Israeli actions.

However, the Israelis have Britain and the US behind them, which means the powers that be basically. This means that nothing has ever really been done about internationally, despite there being the will in some quarters.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: Annunak1

And we forget that what started it all was Hammas bombing of Israel from civilian locations( hiding themselves in hospitals etc ) and therefore provoking their reaction, almost like anticipating it.

No, you cannot see this conflict in a vacuum. For over 60 years the Palestinians have been progressively losing most of their land to Israelis. It is demonstrable via time-elapsed maps.

They also have much less rights and freedom than the Israelis. The Palestinians are more the victims than Israelis. Although I do not agree with all of their methods, they also only think they are defending themselves and their lands.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
Not sure why Obama is so upset about this election. It has given Israel-haters an excuse to condemn the Israeli people along with Netanyahu.

Guess that means you guys don't have to follow up your anti-semitism with the 'I don't hate all Jews, just the Zionists' disclaimer. Because the only good Jew is the one who votes to give up his land, am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong, on multiple levels.

One, the Israelis have been progressively taking Palestinian land for over 60 years. It's factual via maps. Therefore your statement on "Good Jew is the one who votes to give up his land" is completely opposite. Voting against Benny would be voting for EQUAL rights and an end to oppression of the Palestinians...

Next, criticizing Israel governmental actions iS NOT NOT NOT anti-Semitism:

a) Not all Israelis are Jewish
b) Not all Israelis agree with what Israeli is doing
c) Not all Jews agree with Israel's actions
d) Criticizing any government across the world is prima facia not a "racist" or "bigoted" action, but in fact a necessary part of free speech and also holding governments accountable for their action.

JUST like criticizing the Chinese government is NOT bigotry against all Chinese, whether within China or without.

Be honest. Do you REALLY believe that criticizing the Israeli government is anti-semitism, given all of the points I made? If so, you have to either be stupid or completely brainwashed.

You can even agree with the Israeli government and still realize that to criticize is not anti-semitism.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: buster2010

And the biggest one is the United States of America, and I don't see people here demonizing the ordinary American, just their governments.

In my honest opinion, the hate against Jews is stronger now, than it has been during nazi times. People just mask it with saying they actually hate Zionists.

That is a misrepresentation and you know it. Talking to intelligent people who disagree with Israel, if you pull the anti-semite card all it will do is piss us off and make us think you are either 1) manipulative and trying to undermine the conversation and real criticism or 2) just stupid and misinformed.

Are there legitimate anti-Semites out there? yes, of course.

In reality I have seldom seen people criticizing Israeli government actions and blaming ALL Israelis or Jews. This is very rare and most people do exactly as they should, only criticize the government or IDF.

It is as you say, people criticize the American government all of the time, especially for its foreign policy. Are they "bigoted?" NO, that's obviously ridiculous.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: buster2010

Funny how you go back in history but ignore how the Romans kicked the Jews out in around 70 AD...

So was it right for the Romans to kick the Jews out then? So it could essentially be said that the Palestinians took advantage of the Jews being kicked out of their land just as the Americans did with the Native Americans.

I mean... really? This back and forth could go on and on and on.

Eh, still logically faulty.

Yes, the Romans kicked them out.

BUT, I am going to offer you a rock and a hard place, from which there is no escape.

1) You admit that the historical Israelis/Jews in the OT committed genocide of the Canaanites as described in the OT, and therefore the Hebrews stole the land in the first place after the Exodus.

2) If complete genocide was not achieved, then there would be historical descendants of the Canaanites most likely. Therefore they would have been there simultaneously across the past several thousand years. This means that the Jews just as always were not the only inhabitants of the land, giving others claim too. In fact, even according to the OT they invaded from Egypt, and were not the original inhabitants. So how then do they get to claim "original ownership?"

3) Many anthropologists and even geneticists have posited that in fact some Palestinian populations ARE descended from the original Hebrews, and simply converted to Islam during the time when the whole ME basically did. This would even more overthrow the claim of the Israelis.

Basically, only Israelis (some) and conservative evangelicals claim that none of the Palestinians were there before this past century and have no historical claim.