It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: burdman30ott6
originally posted by: noeltrotsky
If he would have not invaded but simply pushed for a referendum he would have got Crimea anyway.
Uh, that's exactly what he did. The referendum passed overwhelmingly and Russia entered the region with troops to protect Crimea following said referendum.
Crimiean freedom fighters, who were pro-Russia, kicked Kiev out of Crimea before the referendum... by armed force. Putin obtained Russian parliament's approval to use force in the Ukraine to defend Crimea prior to the referendum, then 2 weeks later the Crimeans voted and joined Russia (with 97% of votes in favor, IIRC). Putin never invaded anything here.
originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: DeadSeraph
The Ukrainian military schismed into eastern (Yanukovych supporting) troops and western (Svoboda supporting) troops. Are you telling me eastern Ukraine didn't produce any fighter pilots in their military?
Obviously not from the propaganda driven western media that you got your information from if you think what I posted was backwards. The western media pushed the idea that the pre-referendum fighters in Crimea were Russian invaders and the average westerner took it as gospel. What was their evidence?
1. They "appeared" to be Russians...
Uh, Crimea is majority Russian, so most Crimeans look Russian.
2. They were fighting against the government that overthrew Russian ally Yanukovych.
Crimea supported Yanukovych in HUGE way in his latest election, so of course they were pissed to see their voices silenced and their votes marginalized by the Svoboda government.
3. The west's attempt to classify Svoboda as a group of good guys.
Svoboda is absolutely a neo-nazi organization whose roots are traceable to the western Ukrainians who aided and abetted Hitler in WWII, forming their own Waffen SS division to fight against their eastern Ukrainian brothers.
There are facts and there is propaganda... The western media used propaganda to create their own narrative which was entirely devoid of facts. Show me even one shred of proof that Russia was physically responsible for Crimea being defended against Svoboda prior to the referendum.
originally posted by: Whereismypassword
It's Pro Truth not Putinistas,please stop deceiving members on this site
Thank you
Obviously not from the propaganda driven western media that you got your information from if you think what I posted was backwards. The western media pushed the idea that the pre-referendum fighters in Crimea were Russian invaders and the average westerner took it as gospel. What was their evidence?
The Russian president personally ordered preparation of the Crimean special operation the morning after Yanukovich fled, saying that “we cannot let the [Crimean] people be pushed under the steamroller of the nationalists.”
“I [gave them] their tasks, told them what to do and how we must do it, and stressed that we would only do it if we were absolutely sure that this is what the people living in Crimea want us to do,” Putin said. He added that an emergency public opinion poll indicated that at least 75 percent of the people wanted to join Russia.
There's more.
Ukrainian political scientist Taras Berezovets, a Crimea native, recently started an initiative he called Free Crimea, aided by the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives and aimed at building Ukrainian soft power on the peninsula. He started by commissioning a poll of Crimean residents from the Ukrainian branch of Germany's biggest market research organization, GfK. The poll results were something of a cold shower to Berezovets.
GfK Ukraine's poll wasn't based on actual field work, which is understandable, since a Ukraine-based organization would have a tough time operating in today's Crimea, which is rife with Russian FSB secret police agents and ruled by a local government intent on keeping dissent to a minimum. Instead, it conducted a telephone poll of 800 people in Crimea.
The calls were made on Jan. 16-22 to people living in towns with a population of 20,000 or more, which probably led to the peninsula's native population, the Tatars, being underrepresented because many of them live in small villages. On the other hand, no calls were placed in Sevastopol, the most pro-Russian city in Crimea. Even with these limitations, it was the most representative independent poll taken on the peninsula since its annexation.
Eighty-two percent of those polled said they fully supported Crimea's inclusion in Russia, and another 11 percent expressed partial support. Only 4 percent spoke out against it.
It's Pro Truth
Eighty-two percent of those polled said they fully supported Crimea's inclusion in Russia, and another 11 percent expressed partial support. Only 4 percent spoke out against it.
originally posted by: noeltrotsky
From your link,
"A far more rigorous survey, conducted on the ground in Crimea by two US professors working with the independent Levada Center in Moscow, arrived at nearly identical results."
This isn't news to anyone to be honest. Oddly the law in Ukraine was NOT followed to make this annexation legal. This is one of the bigger reason Putin is somewhat of an Idiot. If he would have not invaded but simply pushed for a referendum he would have got Crimea anyway. That way he would have avoided the Sanctions and deaths and Billions in capital that fled Russia.
Putin started a war he didn't have to start. Simply because it was easy and faster. That's what children do when they see candy. Or what men over 60 years old do when they see a gymnast 1/2 their age.
originally posted by: Aaamok88
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
That must be why they have been fighting for it for over 20 years.
You didn't answer my question, if the people of Dagestan want it, you think it's fine for the US to roll in the tanks and Annex Dagestan from Russia?
Sorry
People of Crimea VOTED to join Russia
And now it is proven those votes were real and valid
So time for you and your buddy Xcathedra to apologize publicly on ATS
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Greathouse
That's still not over 90%. IE Putin lies regularly to his supporters.
Which helps keep his popularity so high.
SIMFEROPOL, December 28. A total of 93% of Crimean residents support the decision to join the Russian Federation made at the referendum on 16 March 2014, according to a poll by Russia Public Opinion Research Center (WCIOM) requested by CrimeaInform agency.
If the plebiscite were held once again, only two percent of those polled would have voted for keeping Crimea part of Ukraine, which is less that the level of statistical error for this research. "The overwhelming majority of Crimeans (89%) live rather well, according to their own statements. Only 10% of people say they are not content with the situation. Most residents (82%) positively assess the situation in the republic, 15% express negative assessments," WCIOM said.
Three-fourths of those polled (75%) noted that several positive transformations occurred in Crimea over the past year, while around 4% of people hold the opposite view. Another 16% think the situation has not changed. The poll was conducted in the Republic of Crimea on December 23-26. One thousand people were polled, and the statistical error for this research does not exceed 2.4%