Spirituality might work if it wasn't so stupid.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Do me a favour and bump against a table leg and then tell me what you feel. Is there something? And also was there a now when you hit it and has time passed afterwards?
Your spirituality is so ... slapstick to everybody with a few working braincells.
I know this will get deleted for violations, but I hope you read it first.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain
Do me a favour and bump against a table leg and then tell me what you feel. Is there something?

There is a feeling.

And also was there a now when you hit it and has time passed afterwards?

The appearance appearing is constantly appearing different - moving and changing - but not in time............in awareness, which is timeless and spaceless.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

What is that something that feels, what is that someting which says there is a feeling

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Itisnowagain

What is that something that feels, what is that someting which says there is a feeling

Nothing is feeling - there is just feeling.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The appearance appearing is constantly appearing different

The words wording themselves are wording nothing. Maybe that's part of the problem: nothing is thinking?

The illusion is that feelings are happening 'to someone'. That someone (contracted energy - feeling separate - seeking energy) then tries to get away from feelings or make better feelings. The thoughts try to help by trying to solve the problem - by telling stories of how to make life better but actually create a lot of anxiety by saying it is all wrong now. The rightness and wrongness, the there and then create the illusion of a solid separate me that is going to make it all better.
There is no one, there are just feelings and thoughts arising in nothing, out of nothing and back to nothing.

Suffering for the individual will stop when the individual is found to be just a concept - the illusionary separate me that life is happening to will lift like a veil. Life without the me is life without the one who suffers it. Nothing appears to change - life is just simply happening with no one in control.

Spirituality to obsessed with the rewards of death, than to have faith and lived in life.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Life without the me is life without the one who suffers it.

That sounds like pac-man without the ghosts, pretty pointless.

Nothing appears to change - life is just simply happening with no one in control.

Now that really is saying nothing.

Spirituality is a very loose term to describe the observation and internal experiences of SELF.

Having a true and honest relationship with yourself, everyone your environmentally connected to, and the planet itself.

The psychology, mentalities, behaviors, emotions/feelings, dreams, OOBE to remote viewing and Astral travelling...the "fantastical experinces" humans have that cant be explained by materialistic-measures.

All the things that are US as beings, spirituality is the study and belief in them.

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't know how self discovery and self development is stupid.

To me it's stupid to slave to people you don't know or like. For an artifical concept (money), that you can't live without. Fighting over the living being under our feet, rather share what she provides..

Deny ignorance.

a reply to: Elementalist

Yes that's what I keep hearing. "It's about self-discovery and development!" Should I just take your word for it? Absolutely not. I'm going to take your argument and compare it to reality.

I have watched people of all cultures pray, chant, wear costumes, espouse spiritual and religious doctrines, meditate, self-flagellate, do yoga, abuse narcotics, practice asceticism, speak in tongues, smudges, sweat lodges, read minds, etc. etc. etc. As a grateful visitor to these cultures, I have participated in much of them myself.

I'm interested to hear how any of this is beneficial to the world at large, because as I can see it, the most spiritual people— that is, people who do this day in and day out, the ascetics, the sadhus, the priests, the gurus, the witch doctors, and devoted acolytes alike—have produced more beggars, sexual deviants, anti-women and anti-social dispositions, than any other pursuit known to mankind.

So tell me, what, besides these, has spirituality offered mankind besides these curses?

a reply to: TzarChasm

no different from taking tylenol for a raging headache, if thats how you want to look at it. and who are you to shame anyone for that? suffering is not obligatory. save that for the religious (notice i didnt say spiritual).

If one feels shame for reading a couple words, they themselves are to blame. It's amazing how someone can be offended by another when it is only themselves in the room, a sign that perhaps one should get out more.

And the idea that the religious are not spiritual is without merit. Of course, the spiritually-minded assert this non-argument in a religious fashion.

i like my tylenol analogy better. less of a permanent fix and more of a situational therapy, a la nyquil and flu season. everyone has their cloudy day of the soul and everyone has their go-to for it. perhaps a responsible dose of anti depressants would eliminate the need for a lobotomy, if you catch my meaning. perhaps that means spirituality, maybe it means an actual trip to the pharmacy.

what "cure" would you suggest?

The honing, rather than the suppression, of oneself is where one might wish to start. Strength is required for battling any illness.

i fully agree. we may not learn from our mistakes, but we certainly get better at hiding them. it almost seems as though this stems from embracing our human fallibility as evidence of its divine polar opposite. the more we screw up, the more visible our "blessings" become. and again, this would seem to capitalize on the margin of deniability that both protects the divine cause from investigation and, by the same token, verifies it. but would you impugn a magician for making a crying child laugh?

I am speaking of adults. But one might take a lesson from children insofar as they do not require spirituality.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

As much as you have contempt for this people have always strived for a higher reality through systems that involve meditative sciences


There are millions of people who will tell you this has helped them...
Maybe not reaching Nirvana but some state of awareness and peace


You don’t believe in development

Then you don’t believe in nature or reality because it’s of the easiest things to observe

Whether it is a flower, a child growing into puberty, a woman blossoming into feminine beauty, or a young man growing into adulthood…these things are apparent

In the murky world of the spirit there is also development though not as simple and direct as the above examples but nevertheless it exists and many have experienced it and seen it in others and themselves

Evolution in spirituality is a modern paradigm particularly espoused by the practitioner of Integral Spirituality Ken Wilber. I would check him out if I were you...

Now spirituality is a science of the unseen. We can’t always see the inner development of a follower of healthy spirituality. All we can do is see their exterior condition so we don’t know such a persons inner state.

One can highlight the negative aspects of spiritual seekers fine. That’s a part of the psychological frailty of human beings which has always existed: the cults, the ISIS type distorters, and the psychologically demented like a Jim Jones or Dave Quraish

But then you have a Buddha, and people of a far lower stature than him such as a Deepak Chopra or even the great Suf mystics like Rumi, Ibn Arabi, a Jesus, A Mansur Hallaj, and the numerous Christian saints such as a Thomas Aquinas, St Francis of Assisi, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King and other such as the Vendanta saints like Ghandi, and the numerous honest holy men who aren’t all frauds like so many…

Believe me there are thousands of advanced spiritual adepts through history probably not millions but that's the challenge of spirituality

It is a daunting task at times

It does not guarantee success for I think it was Ken Wilber who pointed out the spiritual path is like riding a buffalo

Ken WIlber on the Aloneness of the Spiritual Path

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Elementalist

Yes that's what I keep hearing. "It's about self-discovery and development!" Should I just take your word for it? Absolutely not. I'm going to take your argument and compare it to reality.

I have watched people of all cultures pray, chant, wear costumes, espouse spiritual and religious doctrines, meditate, self-flagellate, do yoga, abuse narcotics, practice asceticism, speak in tongues, smudges, sweat lodges, read minds, etc. etc. etc. As a grateful visitor to these cultures, I have participated in much of them myself.

I'm interested to hear how any of this is beneficial to the world at large, because as I can see it, the most spiritual people— that is, people who do this day in and day out, the ascetics, the sadhus, the priests, the gurus, the witch doctors, and devoted acolytes alike—have produced more beggars, sexual deviants, anti-women and anti-social dispositions, than any other pursuit known to mankind.

So tell me, what, besides these, has spirituality offered mankind besides these curses?

Did you miss the part I said "Human Spectrum". There is one warm and attractive side, and one cold resistance side, and everything in between that make up who we are.

Your posting sounds very arrogant or self centered. I don't care if you take my word for it or not, experience is the teacher, we can talk all the # we want, write the longest paragraphs. .

At the end of every sundown, it's the experinces We went through that matters. Not ideas or beliefs we flirt with in our minds as finite moments pass by us each day..

Action, Will, leads to experience. Experience leads to truth. You can't read about truth and think or feel you now know what Truth is.

Truth is a feeling, a knowing, that is deep. Information is on the surface and only becomes bloated space in our limited brains, in a limited life time.

Truth and experience will always stay with you, even when your little bio-chemical body has decomposed into the body it came from, Earth.

Want to find truth, and spirituality is too broad and non structured to accept, as a tool to find that truth? You will be left with the science paradigm of Mind; think straight through, ignore feeling, advance inside the womb we are in, and master external nature.

Spirituality, as I said, is all about self. Self being who and what we are. It's the good and the bad, the entire hue man spectrum, a colorful one indeed..

Love, happiness, gratitude, acceptance, togetherness.. the hate, envy, anger, chaotic, resistant. .

It's all apart of who we are, and the body made of matter, is not exactly what makes us so variant in these ways. It's internal, that which powers the body to do what it does.

Dismissing spirituality as not worth attention or acceptance. . Is a metaphor of dismissing oneself with no regard.

What we call Soul searching, is not a bad idea for those not accepting they are more then a body. Figure out what it means to even be alive, genuinely.

Matter doesn't program itself to create, think, feel, share, love, hate, care and to act upon thought. The body made of matter, that came from black matter apparently.. is just the house for thoughts, feelings, energy.

There's MAtter that exists inside of a universe we see as black matter.

Then there is the thought, awareness, feeling, emotion, will, ideas.. that drive and create/destroy matter. But it's always INSIDE of the matter.

Internal energy, coursing withIN a body, perceiving outwards-externaly, a reality via 5 receptive senses.

Why do bodies have receptive senses , what is it about matter that needs/can; Hear, Touch, Taste, See, Experience?

Would seem useless for there to be matter and all that IS created of matter - so nothing could experince it.. It's just there? What or who is the universe there for?

Who's thinking about it lol

a reply to: Elementalist

"Should I just take your word for it? Absolutely not. I'm going to take your argument and compare it to reality."

I hope the above post confirms you and I both live in yhe same reality

What is there to compare other then ideas and thoughts. . . Truth can't be compared, because there is only one truth.

Truth doe not need a; god, king, government, pope, angel, master, guru, monk, or priest.

It stands in its own, and you can see it, feel it and know it if you open your eyes and turn off your ideas

Experience.

a reply to: Elementalist

It's cute. You think you are more, but what you show and say is always and only less than. Anything inside something else must be smaller in order that it may fit inside. Hold a body on one scale, and you on another, and we can guess what would happen.

Sell that idea as much as you want, but there is no expansion going inward, and such notions are simply nonsensical, or at least telling. Necessarily, going inward is contracting, deflating or shrinking. In the absence of substance, the metaphor always tells the truth. When something goes inside, it is to cower from something outside. It is the fetal position of thinking, and this is what you're trying to sell me.

You've experienced your inner worlds, your self, so be it. if you can speak about anything other than yourself, let me know.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Something could only go so far inward before it becomes a point or nothing at all.

Are you avoiding the void?
What is the 'you' that can avoid the void?

When there is nothing appearing to be seen - what are you?
Blank, empty - nothing.

a reply to: Willtell

Flowers grow outward, not inward. Yes I believe in development.

Maybe I left it too subtle, but no one has asked why I believe spirituality might work, or why I am optimistic about it, or why I hang around spiritual people, or invite them to live with me, or why I feel I have an instinctual need to defend them, and why I say they are needed back on land. And when I read a post like Bluesma's, or woodcarver's, I feel that I am right the moment I read their honesty.

You mentioned Martin Luther King and Ghandi. These people changed the world when they applied themselves to reality, when they applied themselves outward, with reason. Read Letters From a Birmingham Jail and try remaining unconvinced. Only when they stopped being spiritual, only when they weren't being spiritual, and focused on maybe politics, or world affairs, or the real people outside of them, never once equating the world with themselves, did they accomplish something the world needed. What if every spiritual person did this? This is a spiritual path worth taking, especially with the greedy hounds running this world amok. No amount of chanting, or praying, or vibrating is going to stop it, and spiritual people have a chance at meaningful advance, peace, respect, a better world, if they took charge and created outwardly rather than inwardly.

With spirituality, it is known that their heart is in the right place, but it has to stop being about the self. It's time to convince minds rather than silence them. It's time to focus on something rather than nothing, the physical instead of the spiritual, selves instead of the self. It's time to defend matter instead of detach from it. Come back from the clouds, good people. You're not that good at speaking about reality, but you're excellent at changing it.

Shouldn't this be in the rant section?

Also, I'm pretty sure most of what you said applies to humans & human nature in general.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

If it should be in the rant section, I would have put it there.

If you're pretty sure this applies to humans in general, you might be able to show me how, but I doubt you would. Maybe you belong in the rant section.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Only when they stopped being spiritual, only when they weren't being spiritual, and focused on maybe politics, or world affairs, or the real people outside of them, never once equating the world with themselves, did they accomplish something the world needed. What if every spiritual person did this? This is a spiritual path worth taking, especially with the greedy hounds running this world amok. No amount of chanting, or praying, or vibrating is going to stop it, and spiritual people have a chance at meaningful advance, peace, respect, a better world, if they took charge and created outwardly rather than inwardly.

Something that the world needed? That seems to be your criteria. Who says the world needs anything, maybe it's just the way it was meant to be. Nobody looks at a hurdle race and says "Why did they place all those obstacles in the way?"