Spirituality might work if it wasn't so stupid.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

There is no rage on my part, I am only pointing out the contradictions in your OP. This is your worldview correct? So you are the one saying other people's beliefs are stupid. What does that say about you and thus the OP?

“Spirituality” is ultimately the study of the invisible or unseen laws of the universe that impact human experience (inner and outer).

By inner it is meant what goes on inside you and your experience with your self

By outer that which is outside of your influence


“Religion” is an attempt to codify and simplify this science and it has failed because the operand, the human, is subject to corruption and misguidance consequently you have religion as a poor substitute for genuine spirituality.

Genuine spirituality is real guidance form someone that has trod the path and knows its way through experience not idle speculation.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Right, that's the thing. You never did. The snobbish behavior you used to wrap up under the package of being spiritual is now wrapped up in some sort of pseudo-philosophical self-image.

You admit to have gone through this same stage in the past, and yet you're now tripping out on people who are simply where they are? Why? Can't be them, must be you!

There's all kinds of addicts out there. These people who talk down alcoholics, a year prior throwing shot glasses across the bar. They don't hate the alcoholics, they hate the fact that their issues still follow them into sobriety.

My snobbish behavior...a charge from a person who has not once met me. Is this the extent of your spirituality? I wonder how writing equates to snobbish behavior. I hope you realize it is your own voice you are hearing in your head.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

There is no rage on my part, I am only pointing out the contradictions in your OP. This is your worldview correct? So you are the one saying other people's beliefs are stupid. What does that say about you and thus the OP?

No this isn't my worldview, just a minor observation. I am speaking about spirituality in general terms, not beliefs.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

At the very least he does spread a positive message...

My hippi neighbor is renting a room from me for a few weeks,.....he is spiritual in the hippi sense and it is somewhat stupid.....everything he believes is a gut feeling,he is not willing to look at evidence if it does not fit into his belief paradigm...so to him we never went to the moon,there is no space station,no rover on mars etc...the oceans have large islands of rubbish floating around,wont eat foods with numbers,and takes video rating very seriously...i could go on but meh....he has though some good views about the earth and animals...

So he spends his days meditating and waiting for the universe to solve all his problems and puts zero effort into proactively fixing his problems,and surprisingly enough(to him) he just keeps on this same constant of pretty much going nowhere and it makes him cranky...

Really he is a great guy but his version of spirituality is somewhat limiting him...it is strange to watch happen

a reply to: Willtell

By inner it is meant what goes on inside you and your experience with your self

Perform a dissection and be done with it.

What's interesting you use outer metaphors to describe inner endeavours, a tell-tale sign that there was never any path to begin with.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I hear you, friend.

I myself have an aversion to overwhelming positivity. I love hippies; they know how to party. But like you said, how it affects the world is what we should be concerned with. Meanwhile, the world continues despite them.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Your observation is flawed as evidenced by the numerous contradictions and inconsistencies I pointed out in my original post. Someone's beliefs is their spirituality. Since you have no clue what spirituality really is, I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

I find it very disrespectful for you to call what I believe "stupid". My spirituality is intimately connected to my beliefs, there is no separation between the two.

Within spirituality and religion is mythology and allegory which are motifs and symbolic stories for the ancient humans whose level of development didn’t include modern intellection.

It would have been like speaking a foreign language to ancient people to try to explain metaphysical realities to them directly through intellectual analysis...

We’re in the age of real metaphysical possibilities where mythology ends and real science can begin

What will prevent that are intellectuals who project emotion onto religion and spirituality and NOT understanding

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I find it very disrespectful for you to call what I believe "stupid". My spirituality is intimately connected to my beliefs, there is no separation between the two.

I don't know nor care what your beliefs are. I would say get over yourself but I've done it enough already.

You did not show any inconsistencies nor contradictions, and I'm not going to hold your hand through my OP.

a reply to: Willtell

What will prevent that are intellectuals who project emotion onto religion and spirituality and NOT understanding

Understanding of what exactly? Has been my question from the get go. All I hear are assertions that understanding is occurring, but I see no possible connection between spirituality and understanding, and this whole understanding idea is a non-sequitur of mammoth proportions. What exactly have they understood?

The OP was beautifully written, which in and of itself was a pleasure to read. But sometimes I wonder, other than the very small things ie buying breakfast for a homeless person, what good does anything we do, do anymore? Everything we do we do for ourselves. Meditating makes ourselves feel better. Going to church is a "feel-good" social event.

Even if being 'spiritual" is not a great contribution to mankind, it's still better than nothing. It's trying.

People can project even disbelief as a form of coercion unto others.

They project their experience and intellectual conclusions as an end and be all of reality somewhat of a presumptuous notion.

What one man consumes another regurgitates…

So to assume others are in ones own psychological, emotional, and intellectual space is a hell of an assumption


Without understanding there is no development!

a reply to: angeldoll

But sometimes I wonder, other than the very small things ie buying breakfast for a homeless person, what good does anything we do, do anymore?

A very difficult question everyone should ponder.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If you don't care about my or anyone else's spiritual beliefs then what was the point of this thread? You obviously care enough to write a lengthy thread about them.

No contradictions? You asked this demeaning question:

What do you as an enlightened being endowed with full infinite wisdom have to offer the world?

Implying that someone who is "enlightened" has nothing to offer to the world.

You then go on to answer your own question by saying this:

Most of my friends consider themselves spiritual. They are good company. They are accepting of others, and laughter is a prerequisite. They are charitable and charming and seemingly indifferent to what others think of them. It is pleasant to be around them in play and sensuality. If you find yourself at a large music festival, or a party, find the spiritual people and be with them. Get close to them. They are, in the universal and particular sense, great lovers.

Saying that they have great love, good company, and acceptance to offer the world.

Why ask the question in such a derogatory fashion then go on to list amiable qualities they have to offer the world?

Believe it or not, when it comes to spirituality and spiritual folk in general, I am a delighted optimist.

If you are an optimist on spirituality and spiritual people then why do you call spirituality "stupefying"? That implies that spirituality "stupefies" the very people you call good company. WTF?

Like I said, you've made a case against yourself.

a reply to: Willtell

People can project even disbelief as a form of coercion unto others.

They project their experience and intellectual conclusions as an end and be all of reality somewhat of a presumptuous notion.

What one man consumes another regurgitates…

So to assume others are in ones own psychological, emotional, and intellectual space is a hell of an assumption


Without understanding there is no development!

Or they project it for the sake of a reader's entertainment, perhaps dangerously assuming others can think for themselves.

This type of understanding spoken of is not communicable to the intellect.

When that is attempted usually what is produced is religion

It can only be said that one has to discern what spirituality is in human beings as some have attempted to convey

The op has an exceptional intellect btw but with all due respect intellect alone is not enough for certain endeavors.

One has to concede that and then operate on real faith that there is something to understand

There is the lesser understanding and then the greater understanding

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No contradictions? You asked this demeaning question:

Implying that someone who is "enlightened" has nothing to offer to the world.

Well, no...I was asking, hoping someone might "enlighten" me.

You then go on to answer your own question by saying this:

Saying that they have great love, good company, and acceptance to offer the world.

Why ask the question in such a derogatory fashion then go on to list amiable qualities they have to offer the world?

Yes, they have something to offer the world when they are not being spiritual. That was my claim.

Believe it or not, when it comes to spirituality and spiritual folk in general, I am a delighted optimist.

If you are an optimist on spirituality and spiritual people then why do you call spirituality "stupefying"? That implies that spirituality "stupefies" the very people you call good company. WTF?

Like I said, you've made a case against yourself.

Because that's what I observe, but I am optimistic that I might observe something different one day. You're just grasping for straws here.

a reply to: Willtell

One has to concede that and then operate on real faith that there is something to understand

There is the lesser understanding and then the greater understanding

That is my question: a greater understanding of what?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You don't stop being spiritual, if you are spiritual it is a part of your every day life. Like I said, you have no understanding of what spirituality is. One does not "stop" being spiritual during certain parts of their day. You're confusing spirituality with meditation or whatever you think spirituality is. Spirituality is a way of life, not an action or ritual as you seem to think.