And now for the real reason for the war in Ukraine

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Unless of course you take into account oil pipelines.

Moldavia is to further isolate the black sea and to bring under complete Russian control. South Georgia it's all about the new pipelines they want to put through. As for Belarus I'm not sure but I would enjoy an army behind NATO's lines if I was Putin.

Moldova is the poorest country in Europe and would cost more to fix than it's worth.

Abkazia was avoided when building the Blue Stream Oil pipeline to Turkey and will be avoided again when building the new Pipeline to Turkey up to the Greek border. Abkazia is too unstable and Russia already has shorter routes for the pipeline.

Belarus has a different dictator.

I don't see pipelines as a factor in grabbing Crimea. Sorry.

a reply to: Greathouse

Let me see what was it again? Because guys from Saudi Arabia armed with boxcutters flew airliners into American targets organised by a Saudi Arabian from a cave in Afghanistan?

Seriously, can you give me a summary of the facts that I did not accept?

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Moldavia has a small port and refinery. This is a move by Putin to cut off everyone from the gas/oil in the black sea and the sea of Azon.

Georgia even though it has no reserves was still about the strategic placement of pipelines.

TextThere are three key pipelines that run through Georgia. The biggest, designed to bypass Russia, is the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, or BTC, which transports about a million barrels of oil a day from the Caspian Sea through Georgia to ports in Turkey. From there, the oil is sent to Europe and other destinations around the world.

Ukraine was mostly about the new gas fields discovered in the black sea in 2012. As quoted at the bottom of page 2, Moldavia was about the coastline and will isolate Ukraine and further enhance Russia's position and attempts to dominate all gas/oil deposits in that region.

When you meant the north stream pipeline, I could only assume you mentioned that the Nord Stream pipeline?

Which has been canceled by Putin.



Look into my theory a little more. The more you look into it the more sense it makes. Which in turn makes sense of Kremlin favored posters trying to ignore, minimize or defraud the post.

It's quite easy for them to scream war for oil in Iraq, when we practice capture and release.

The position to capture and annex makes Russia's move on Crimea far more obvious. That's why no one wants to discuss the issue.

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
a reply to: Greathouse

Let me see what was it again? Because guys from Saudi Arabia armed with boxcutters flew airliners into American targets organised by a Saudi Arabian from a cave in Afghanistan?

Seriously, can you give me a summary of the facts that I did not accept?

LoL that post was a complete copout. You reminded me earlier we should stay on topic, the only reason you moved from the topic in my opinion is that you could not answer the questions. What the hell does the Ukraine have to do with 911?

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
a reply to: Greathouse

Let me see what was it again? Because guys from Saudi Arabia armed with boxcutters flew airliners into American targets organised by a Saudi Arabian from a cave in Afghanistan?

Seriously, can you give me a summary of the facts that I did not accept?

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
Comments like this just prove that you guys are not about the truth at all, just about the obfuscation.

To expose the truth you first need to find it.

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
Being sold to foreign parties. What does it matter if it is a seed company or an oligarch.

It matters when you have staked the OP on it. Foreign parties are not seed companies and oligarchs, and for that you have demonstrated no evidence, or (er) truth in the statement.

a reply to: Dimithae

OP

this is exactly the kind of cutting and carving West was doing to Russia post Soviet collapse until Putin came to power and kicked them out

Now

Ukraine is on the menu, stick a fork in them

a reply to: paraphi

It matters when you have staked the OP on it. Foreign parties are not seed companies and oligarchs, and for that you have demonstrated no evidence, or (er) truth in the statement.

Omg, really. What does it matter if the land is being sold to foreign seed companies or to a foreign conglomerate of ice cream truck drivers, or an oligarch, the fact remains that the land is being sold to foreign and third parties and this obviously is not a good thing for Ukraine.

a reply to: MasterMaximum

It matters if you place an emphasis on land being give to oligarchs and seed companies and then (surprise, surprise) these are not the recipients. So really, OMG, yes: My original points are shown to be correct.

What is good for Ukraine is an efficient and productive agricultural sector.

a reply to: paraphi

My original points are shown to be correct.

What this?

It is more likely that foreign and domestic companies will be interested in buying shares in Ukrainian state holdings.

No they are buying land, just like the OP said, just like my source said. Again, what does it matter wether it's seed companies, oligarchs or ice cream truck drivers, the land is being sold to third and foreign parties

What is good for Ukraine is an efficient and productive agricultural sector.

So it's a good thing for Ukraine to sell off their land?

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
... the fact remains that the land is being sold to foreign and third parties and this obviously is not a good thing for Ukraine.

Why is foreign investment automatically a bad thing in your world?

In the following link it shows BILLIONS of foreign investment in almost every country on the planet.

data.worldbank.org...

It is even happening in you Mother Russia! GASP! Yes! Putin is BEGGING for foreign investors to come to Russia! Of course they are running from the country as fast as they can currently. Something about crazy doesn't attract them.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
... the fact remains that the land is being sold to foreign and third parties and this obviously is not a good thing for Ukraine.

Why is foreign investment automatically a bad thing in your world?

In the following link it shows BILLIONS of foreign investment in almost every country on the planet.

data.worldbank.org...

It is even happening in you Mother Russia! GASP! Yes! Putin is BEGGING for foreign investors to come to Russia! Of course they are running from the country as fast as they can currently. Something about crazy doesn't attract them.

Hahaha, and all the while the common people of the U.K/U.S.A. are BEGGING for their governments to just disappear (the ones with their fingers on the pulse anyway), the west is in decline hence why the aggressive tactics against Ukraine/Syria/Afghanistan/Iraq, the economy is being manipulated by the rich for the rich.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Yay, another straw man argument.

Having foreign investors is not the same as actually selling of land to foreign parties in exchange for loans, which is the topic of this thread.

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
Having foreign investors is not the same as actually selling of land to foreign parties in exchange for loans, which is the topic of this thread.

Let's get back to basics... In your own words, what loans are being exchanged for selling off land?

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
a reply to: noeltrotsky
Yay, another straw man argument.
Having foreign investors is not the same as actually selling of land to foreign parties in exchange for loans, which is the topic of this thread.

It's the agriculture business! They need land to grow things!

Ah forget it. Your sky is falling and the big international boogey men are taking over Ukraine. I can't help you. Prepare for the end of days...

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Yay, another straw man argument.

Having foreign investors is not the same as actually selling of land to foreign parties in exchange for loans, which is the topic of this thread.

Don't know why this is an issue. Foreign corporations and private foreign citizens have been able to purchase real-estate in Ukraine for a while now.

Source

If I wanted to buy a lot of farmland in Ukraine I could. I know, the whole "MONSANTO=THE DEVIL" shtick. But just like any foreign company, they too are allowed to purchase land in Ukraine.

Oh, thought I would add this. Foreign companies and citizens are also allowed to purchase real-estate in Russia.

So there's that, too.