And now for the real reason for the war in Ukraine

a reply to: noeltrotsky

That is a good question because too much of anything is often bad.

You said it!

The OP links an article showing that the government in Ukraine is considering the issue. It's a good sign that the government is functioning after a year of crisis management trying to simply survive an invasion by it's neighbor.

But they are being invaded by foreign powers other than Russia. That is what it shows.

a reply to: Dimithae

Ah, privatising state owned facilities is not a land-grab.

Ukraine needs to invest to change its backward economy. We need to see how Ukraine goes about this, but with EU watching they probably won’t follow the Russian model where political nepotism has made Putin’s inner circle fantastically rich from the sale of state assets and contracts. After all, anti-corruption was one of the issues at the Euromaiden demonstrations.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Your rational just made me warm and fuzzy realizing that China's take-over of Canada's west coast is not cultural genocide, they just want to help us with their investments and we should be grateful.
Thanks for clearing that up.

'Cultural genocide' ??? Ah, someone has racial issues I think.

Personally I love Chinese investment in Canada. It has caused some problems but the cheap Sushi on every street corner in Vancouver is simply to die for...

My wife is Chinese.

And sushi is Japanese.

Now I know you.

Edit to add:

The use of the term cultural - although pertinent to Canada's west coast on many levels, like the natives - was meant more for Ukraine. They want their own sovereignty and identity, separate fro Russian influence.... and they invite the WEST in????

Oh baby! GMO for the win!

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Cheap Sushi is always Chinese...you should know that!

originally posted by: paraphi
Ukraine needs to invest to change its backward economy. We need to see how Ukraine goes about this, but with EU watching they probably won’t follow the Russian model where political nepotism has made Putin’s inner circle fantastically rich from the sale of state assets and contracts. After all, anti-corruption was one of the issues at the Euromaiden demonstrations.

Excellent point!

a reply to: paraphi

Ah, privatising state owned facilities is not a land-grab

It is, especially with foreign powers becoming owners.

Ukraine needs to invest to change its backward economy. We need to see how Ukraine goes about this, but with EU watching they probably won’t follow the Russian model where political nepotism has made Putin’s inner circle fantastically rich from the sale of state assets and contracts. After all, anti-corruption was one of the issues at the Euromaiden demonstrations.

If the land is privatised by oligarchs and foreign companies you get the exact same type of inner circle.

Matter of fact, what you describe is exactly what is going on here.

Ukraine government selling off state assets and contracts for companies in exchange for debt.

You got that right Jude11, As The Old Saying Goes : Just Follow The Money $$$. That's when you'll know who's really doing what! Peace Arjunanda. a reply to: jude11

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
It is, especially with foreign powers becoming owners.

It is more likely that foreign and domestic companies will be interested in buying shares in Ukrainian state holdings. Even Russia shed many of their state owned industries and concerns, except they went to individuals – the oligarchs – rather than existing commercial interest.

a reply to: paraphi

What part don't you understand?

The federal government has admitted in response to a request of the Left Party, that national and international companies in Ukraine benefiting from EU subsidies and loans. There is a transfer of fertile lands to Ukrainian oligarchs and international seed companies. In return, the Kiev government receives international loans.

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
What part don't you understand?

I understand it all, but question what I read.

Is here any other source that backs up this view that Ukrainian agricultural land is going to be transferred to "oligarchs" and "seed companies"? Are "seed companies" major lnad holders in other countries? The article is speculating.

The 17 billion USD IMF loans are conditional on economic reforms, which include the setting up of a proper anti-corruption agency.

www.imf.org...

a reply to: paraphi

Off course the source.....

The source is not speculating, they are reporting on events going on in the Ukrainian government. Are you really saying they made this story up?

In a small request of the parliamentary group of the Left Party on January 19, 2015, the "land grabbing", ie the criticized "land grab by states and major national and international companies," in Ukraine. The left is outraged over a planned redistribution of land: "In the Shadow of Ukraine crisis is here to watch a worrying transfer of land to Ukrainian oligarchs, but also Western, listed agricultural companies and non-Western states.

Btw, there is a vid at the link but I can't watch it right now.

I am not surprised, and the truth is probably more in line with the article than the naysayers would admit....
The USA does the same thing everywhere it can get its grubby fingers into an challenged economy....(as does the EU or any other corporate run state.....
The corporations own a huge % of anything worth owning anywhere by now....
Why wouldn't the same agenda work in a crippled Ukraine?
Canada is a fair example of foreign ownership of the major INDUSTRY, BIG AG, AND JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE....
GOVERNMENT THAT BENEFITS CANADIANS IS LONG DEAD AND BURRIED BY NOW.....

There once was a battered woman named Ukraine who finally gathered the strength to leave her abusive ex Boris, and went willingly into the arms and promises of a far more abusive, but nice looking, Uncle Sam. She really believed his good intentions.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Dimithae

Balderdash!
Who gains if Russia devides the Ukraine?
Where does the West gain and that includes the US and the EU?

War is destructive, costs billions to wage and clean up after. Who benefits from that?

Who benefits form the industry that rises out of the ash, the interest on the loans, the lucrative construction contracts?

Its a win win for the victors all around. Even now the sanctions on Russia and the loss of income from trade between Russia and EU nations benefit the US.
Guess the EU and Ukraine will have to deal with the US now, huh?

That's it, and not only that, everyone seems to forget Ukraine is a very divided place, easy pickings for the West. Viktor Yanukovych a democratically elected leader was turfed out simply because he wanted to deal with Russia economically, and look what happened, protests and mayhem from different factions, then the killings started with one side blaming the other.
No one going to tell me that there were not agent provocateurs in from the West...they just can't leave things alone, even at a time when there was a relative peace in Europe.

a reply to: paraphi

This is SELLING,they are not privatizing things,they are selling them off at auction.

www.kmu.gov.ua...

State Property Fund of Ukraine announced today a tender on sale of 99.52% shares of OJSC Odessa Port Plant at a nominal value 794 MN 703.7 thousand UAH with primary price 2.5 bn UAH (1 USD – 5.05 UAH), as reported with reference to the Vedomosty Pryvatyzatsiyi (Privatization News) newspaper.

The tender will be held on auction principle in 75 days.

According to the conditions, a bidder is obliged to increase profits from realization starting with 1.98 BN UAH during the first control year till 2.57 BN UAH during the fifth. The plan is to invest 328 MN UAH, 296 MN UAH, 250 MN UAH, 166 MN UAH and 160 MN UAH along five years respectively.

OJSC Odessa Port Plant (Odessa, southern Ukraine) appears the third in size enterprise in Ukraine dealing with production of nitrogen fertilizers (14-18%) and the second in production of ammonia (22-24%). The plant closes an ammoniac pipeline Tolyatti-Gorlovka-Odessa and exports large amounts of chemicals along Ukraine.

They are ridding themselves of their companies that they depend on for profit. This will come back and bite them later. Most companies will not continue to work in a country where the tax base is high,they want and must show a profit. So how much do you think these sales will bring into Ukraine in taxes? I'll bet not too much.

originally posted by: MasterMaximum
The source is not speculating, they are reporting on events going on in the Ukrainian government. Are you really saying they made this story up?

Ah, the article is reporting the opinion of the Left Party. The Left Party have no representation in parliament. If it refers to the left-leaning parties, then they are just playing politics, so not speculation, just political gibbering.

However, if you have any authoritative source that the Ukrainian authorities are going to hand over land to oligarchs and "seed companies", then feel free to post them.

originally posted by: Dimithae
1 USD – 5.05 UAH

If someone pays that exchange rate for UAH then a crime has been committed!

a reply to: paraphi

Ah, the article is reporting the opinion of the Left Party.

No it is reporting on the request for clarification made by the left party and the response to that request by the government.

a reply to: paraphi

See above. The Ukrainian government website is selling off Odessa port.This is not speculation.

a reply to: Dimithae

Nope you guys have it all wrong. PUTIN went to war for oil and natural gas.

When Russia seized Crimea in March, it acquired not just the Crimean landmass but also a maritime zone more than three times its size with the rights to underwater resources potentially worth trillions of dollars. Russia portrayed the takeover as reclamation of its rightful territory, drawing no attention to the oil and gas rush that had recently been heating up in the Black Sea. But the move also extended Russia’s maritime boundaries, quietly giving Russia dominion over vast oil and gas reserves while dealing a crippling blow to Ukraine’s hopes for energy independence. Russia did so under an international accord that gives nations sovereignty over areas up to 230 miles from their shorelines. It had tried, unsuccessfully, to gain access to energy resources in the same territory in a pact with Ukraine less than two years earlier./

putin's war for oil

edit on 1-3-2015 by Greathouse because: (no reason given)