And now for the real reason for the war in Ukraine

a reply to: MasterMaximum

What you miss is that it is the best reason for war.

It's fine to say the US went to war for oil in Iraq. For some reason on social media is not okay to say the same about Russia.

There were proven gas fields, new gas fields and infrastructure related to oil/gas. Yet for some reason no one wants to talk about that?

a reply to: MasterMaximum

BTW " my pet theory" I know about it was quoted by the New York Times. So you in no way can call it "my pet theory." Lol

a reply to: Greathouse

I called it your pet theory because I see you almost stomping your feet because nobody wants to talk about your pet theory. Just because one guy at NY Times wrote a piece doesn't mean it is THE sole reason for this situation.

There are obviously a lot of factors involved here leading up to this.

a reply to: Greathouse

Yea right, New York times is nobody. LOL. Anyway here's another source.


putin's war for oil

Your " pet theory" argument is losing ground quickly. Please keep it up!

a reply to: Greathouse

Your " pet theory" argument is losing ground quickly. Please keep it up!

There there no need to jump around.

Their source is the same NY Times article.

It still doesn't mean that these "potentially oil rich" areas are the sole reason for this situation.

a reply to: MasterMaximum

Actually if you read the article. They cited the New York Times article and agreed with it. Here's another little tidbit for you from that link.

The prospect of a Russian oil grab received little attention in mainstream media coverage of the Ukrainian crisis, or for that matter in the hours of discussion by experts and analysts. But Putin’s action deprives Ukraine of more than Crimea; it deprives Kyiv of its plans to become less dependent on Russian oil and liquid gas supplies, and free of the political pressure that has come with that dependence.

What is happening is. Your reluctance to argue the motivation behind the annexation. Goes a long way to proving my point.

Putin went to war for oil. Then he sent the Ukraine a bill for gas, what a gangster.

a reply to: Greathouse

I wrote a short story about Putin's drive for Oil a few years ago. You have a valid point about the reserves around Crimea. I don't think it's the whole story, but it's a large piece in the puzzle.

There are lots of reasons. Controlling the Black Sea is critical for Russian security so I suspect military planners were having seizures thinking about NATO building a base in Crimea 20 years from now. Personally I think the Russian base in Crimea has some military kit that isn't openly talked about being there. Missiles to be exact. Nasty ones that go boom boom.

Securing Crimea was more important than the media even knows about...I suspect.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

IMO it also ties in with the seizures in Georgia for a new pipeline. The same goes with the Russian occupation of Moldavia ilas for oil/gas .

No I think Putin has a long-term plan which he gradually achieving. What baffles me, is that even though proven reserves are well known and new reserves are documented in the sea of Azoj and Black Sea.

No one is mentioning?

a reply to: MasterMaximum

Nope you don't have to agree wholeheartedly you just have to except the facts.

Let me ask you a question, what is the reason the US went to war in Iraq?

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: noeltrotsky
I don't see that the EU has done a lot of most of the former USSR countries to be honest,they are saddled with debt and fighting to stay solvent.
www.techscio.com...

First, the link you provided doesn't include many countries that are in the EU. But really, you don't want to start seeing the facts about economic growth for ex Soviet countries. The GDP per person has surpassed Russia for many of them, which one would think might wake Pro-Russian forum posters up to the truth.

Let's not do this dance.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Dimithae

Balderdash!
Who gains if Russia devides the Ukraine?
Where does the West gain and that includes the US and the EU?
Putin, as a person, is as much of a threat to world peace today as Hitler was in Germany.
You can't split hairs on this deal. It is straightforward and simple.

No Putin is not in any way shape or form as big of a threat as Hitler.... That is insane.

Second, what if it is true that there was a untoward coup in Ukraine that was fomented by the west for a series of reasons, including but not limited to taking control of the "geo-political pivot" that is known as Ukraine, and hence reducing Russia's power but also what the Op mentioned.

If it is true that West is coming up on Putin's doorstep in a geo-political power grab, then Putin may be right to take action.

You need to remember that for the past century the US freely dominated all of Latin America using the Monroe Doctrine and that no other powers could be allowed to interfere in our "backyard."

So then why doesn't Putin get to do it?

Or are you like most westerners that only see war crimes when it's the enemy?

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: noeltrotsky
IMO it also ties in with the seizures in Georgia for a new pipeline. The same goes with the Russian occupation of Moldavia ilas for oil/gas .
No I think Putin has a long-term plan which he gradually achieving. What baffles me, is that even though proven reserves are well known and new reserves are documented in the sea of Azoj and Black Sea.
No one is mentioning?

You're losing me now! Abkazia and South Ossetia aren't worth 2 nickels and there isn't a drop of Oil in Transneistria, the part of Moldova that Russia has parked their 4th Army.

Yes Putin loves Oil. Yes Crimea has Oil around it. Yes Putin is more complex than Oil. Agreed!

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: Dimithae

I know what you mean. Big companies come in and buy up huge tracts of land then farm them relentlessly, shipping off the rape to the EU for Bio Fuel. It is a massive industry in the US, corn there.

The thing is the Ukrainian government needs the tax base these companies can provide. The few jobs they will provide can really change lives in Ukraine. A developing economy needs to start somewhere. Ukraine has fertile ground so it's a good place to start. They really have very little to export. Besides the rocket industry they have built up, which is world class and could fall into the wrong hands if the government isn't careful.

But hold on a second.

In the 1990's after the USSR fell, US economists came up in eastern Europe's grill and using "shock economics" and free market tactics, tried to get it going.

That actually failed in a lot of ways. I know, because my very own professor Jeffrey Sachs was involved in it. He has since reformed his ways a bit after also perhaps causing problems in Chile. en.wikipedia.org...

So why do you think it is a magic thing again now?

And, I don't think that selling off things to foreign companies and taking big debts and letting Monsanto in is the answer.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Unless of course you take into account oil pipelines.

Moldavia is to further isolate the black sea and to bring under complete Russian control. South Georgia it's all about the new pipelines they want to put through. As for Belarus I'm not sure but I would enjoy an army behind NATO's lines if I was Putin.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
No Putin is not in any way shape or form as big of a threat as Hitler.... That is insane.

I wouldn't agree with that important statement. Here's why...

Hitler started out pushing back against the Allies a little, all the while rebuilding his armed forces. His early successes encouraged him to try for a bit more. When he got that pretty easily he grabbed a bit more. He also found out his military was pretty good. Hell after he rolled through France he even went against all his military planners and attacked Russia...nearly winning too!

I think Putin found with Georgia he could get away with grabbing a part of a country without much problems. He has been spending a higher % of GDP on military than even the mighty USA spends. Now Putin has grabbed Crimea and annexed it outright, something he didn't do in Georgia. All the while refusing cuts to rebuilding his military while Russians suffer.

What might the easy grab of Crimea teach Putin? Hopefully he doesn't decide to test the resolve of the EU or the US, but he has already gotten away with it twice now.

Putin is not Hitler. He is on a similar road learning the same lessons.