Capitalism has failed, let's consider other options

Actually I'm partly bowing out cause my hearts stopped being in it right now.

I've got this really sick, bottom of my stomach feeling of impending doom right now, like there's something terribly, terrible wrong that's either happened or about to happen.

At least I'm trying to come up with something...

a reply to: Puppylove

Is the society I described some slave master asking you to spit shine his shoes, whipping you when you don't, telling you what job you have to do, giving you zero choice on the matter, and no say in how hard or long you work?

Yes.

You are going to have to write laws to force to people to work. You said that no one is allowed not to work. That means you are going to have men with guns beating the snot out of people that don't want to work. You must seriously hate homeless people.

But, what is work?

Is physical labor work? What if you enjoy it? Is writing poetry work? What if you hate it?

Is what I described forcing you to work till your hands are stripped bare and never letting you earn anything for yourself?

I don't know if my hands would be stripped bare, but you did say that we are not allowed to have 5 swimming pools because, according to you, people "don't need 5 swimming pools."

If I cannot work with the promise that I can create what I want out of my labor, I am not going to work.

How do we determine "how much" a person can have?

The guy who greets people at Walmart can only live in a run-down trailer park, because, according to your premise, he's less valuable to society than someone who cures diseases for a living.

But, the guy who cures diseases can only live in a small condo because according to you "no one needs all the things I don't think they need."

Is the society I described not allowing you to not only earn a living but improve your lot in life?

No, it's not. If I can't live in a Mansion and have 5 swimming pools, then I am not improving my lot in life.

Is the society I describe giving you no ability to make decisions for yourself?

Yes, it's taking my ability to make decisions away.

If I want to live in a house that costs $200,000, that is my decision. If I want to live in a house that costs $1,000,000, that is my decision.

If you tried to stop me, I would probably get really triggered. Like, start a civil war level triggered.

Are there hounds ready to chase you if you try to leave at a moments notice? Does this society I describe not give you freedom to have a life? To have time to yourself and still be taken care of?

You said we had to squander our youth working 80 hours per week.

You can all say whatever, but nothing I've described in this amounts to slavery.

Everything you described amounts to slavery.

Only a system of give and take

We have a system of give-and-take. Thanks Capitalism and private markets.

where everyone does their part for the mutual benefit of all

Worked really well for the Soviet Union.

and those that contribute the most and work harder get better taken care of and more time for themselves.

The greeter at Walmart doesn't work as hard as an accountant or a guy digging a ditch.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Actually I'm partly bowing out cause my hearts stopped being in it right now.

I've got this really sick, bottom of my stomach feeling of impending doom right now, like there's something terribly, terrible wrong that's either happened or about to happen.

At least I'm trying to come up with something...

I've got some Lady and the Tramp collectibles I'll trade for you running out to the liquor store to re-up on the Ciroc...



It's snowing like Valhalla here.

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

You got a deal I sympathize with the tramp. But we are gonna have to go 7 and 7 seagrums or maybe some johnny walker.

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

My car is currently dead, so no go I'm afraid.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

You got a deal I sympathize with the tramp. But we are gonna have to go 7 and 7 seagrums or maybe some johnny walker.

If not Ciroc, Polish potato vodka, mi amore.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

My car is currently dead, so no go I'm afraid.

I'll have my buddy here fix it for a PS4...

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

And I'm not being pulled back in by misrepresenting half of what I've said throughout this thread.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

And I'm not being pulled back in by misrepresenting half of what I've said throughout this thread.

Come on, dude. He made valid points. As did we all, I think. We (well I) realize you were just spit-ballin', but your intransigence led to some negative feelings, it seems.

I really was just trying to point out the flaws. Hope you're not pissed, brah.

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

How about a PS3 and a 36 inch T.V screen, is all I can offer I'm afraid.

Oh wait there's a PS2 without a controller, maybe some D&D books? Some old desktop computers? A tapestry with 4 wolves on it... Wow I don't own much...

a reply to: Borisbanger

Boris do you have a British accent if so I got hearts in my eyes.. I already got loaded up on the 7 and 7 obviously lol. I do want to know if I can get some perks and what they are

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

How about a PS3 and a 36 inch T.V screen, is all I can offer I'm afraid.

Oh wait there's a PS2 without a controller, maybe some D&D books? Some old desktop computers? A tapestry with 4 wolves on it... Wow I don't own much...

# yeah! If you have Goldeneye!

and would that tapestry be black velvet??? You got a deal.

Now I'll have to give my boy here some Perks and send him over.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Borisbanger

Boris do you have a British accent if so I got hearts in my eyes.. I already got loaded up on the 7 and 7 obviously lol. I do want to know if I can get some perks and what they are

Come on! I'm SURE you know what perks are....

or are the spelled with a "c?"

a reply to: Puppylove

See the problem is that you are putting a council in charge of what they think is appropriate for everyone else to want or need in their life and to put valuations on their respective contributions to your society.

This is not freedom.

You may think that no one needs five swimming pools, and I agree with you that no one likely does. But freedom isn't about what someone needs. It's about what each of us thinks we need in order to be happy. For that one person, the pursuit of happiness involves working to realize the dream of having those five swimming pools, no matter how wasteful anyone else may think it is. That's their dream and their goal and it drives them to be productive contributors to society and ultimately society is better for it.

And something else, it may be that they are sacrificing a lot of other stuff in order to have those five swimming pools.

I own close 1,000 books, but I only have three pairs of shoes, four pairs of work pants and two pairs of jeans, and enough works clothes to get me through the week to compensate. It means I am constantly wearing the same things week in and out. You might think I own too many books, but my wardrobe is very limited by way of compensation.

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

A lot of what he just said, completely ignored several of my other points, and misrepresented what I was saying, saying I said something I did not by ignoring several clarifications and expansions of points.

That being said, no real hurt feelings, my mind isn't in it's proper place right now, I'm seriously emotionally wrecked currently so clear thought is something I currently lack at this point in time.

Some of his points are very valid, others are straight out misrepresentations. Which means I either failed to clarify it well, possible as mind not in the right place, or he's purposely doing so. Either way, I'm seriously trying to stop.

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

Perks instead of money have certain connotations in my mind. But I may just be buzzing

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

Perks instead of money have certain connotations in my mind. But I may just be buzzing

Playing catch up with me, huh?

I'm getting to THAT point in my evening so I better turn my phone off.

Peace out. Until tomorrow.

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

I guess it is time to get off ATS when the liquor starts talking.

a reply to: Puppylove

Your tirade against Capitalism does no good because no matter how you slice it, your solution is still working a J O B for someone else.. it's still capitalism!

It seems good on the surface that you want to make sure everyone's income chances are equal But you tread dangerously close to a Wealth distribution system of socialism - which can be way worse than Capitalism.

You say, " No one is incapable of working" - What if we don't want to work? I sure as hell don't want to work anymore, i'm retired at 47.

Again re-reading over your post, your solution is bad because it still forces people to work a JOB for a living - wouldn't it be better to discourage getting a job and encourage folks to create their own businesses via their own creativity? In this manner no man is a slave to someone else which is in your solution.

No, i'm not liking your ideas at all, not only is it too much like Capitalism, it's way to restrictive on our human rights.

a reply to: Borisbanger

I don't think laws get passed like that. They are far reaching and aren't done as a 'quick fix' unless you are talking about infamous budget fights.