Capitalism has failed, let's consider other options

a reply to: Puppylove

So Z is a bank, and Y is the lender.

I (Y) pay 270 bucks a month for my car. I can at any point stop paying on it and let them repo it. It belongs to them (Z) until I pay it off at which time I can then say it is clearly mine and sell it to someone else, at a degraded value of course.


Please explain to me how your system is different than current forms of capitalism other than a few turns of phrase?

Ironically enough I have to, as a freelancer go back to rendering service to someone with more assets than me so that I can continue to have the internet I enjoy so much. "I'm late for work".
Glad they are willing to exchange.

Thanks for the chat puppylove, will check back later, enjoyed your thread.

a reply to: ketsuko

The lack of ability to accrue debt, the inability to go above the highest ceiling, or below the lowest floor, the lack of any type of cash that can vary in value. Objects in said economy have a set value within it's standard of living purchasing power, and thus can only be traded downward. If the objects value changes, it changes for everybody, if A can get the object anyone else who is A can too so long as he didn't choose to get a different object of the same worth instead. This makes it so objects can only be sold for less than it's determined worth, not more, as anyone with more can get said object already. The currently capitalism system allows for goods to be arbitrarily inflated in value. It also allows for monetary debt, something this does not. You cannot go into perk debt, perks aren't something you can give away. You can give away goods purchased with perks but you cannot give away perks like cash.

a reply to: Puppylove

Sums it up



purp...

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

No you haven't, in my system something cannot be owned until paid off, only borrowed.

You can only get as much out of the kid as he's willing to give. Is a no debt system. The second you say the kid owns it, he doesn't owe you jack in this system.

So yes you could use the system to get kids to do your laundry and # to borrow your system, but you can never indenture the kid by creating a debt. You give it away rather than loan it, it's gone.

So... LOANS are OK then?! Cuz, my brother, that's what borrowing and not owning something until it's paid off is... So it's really a no debt system until I point out some flaw?

And, if we did as you herein describe, it would be a truly sucky system. How would you handle his stopping to work or failing to follow through on his part of the deal? I still lose my PS4?? Or do I get it back now that I've pointed out a flaw (thus making it EXACTLY like a loan)?
I need that alcohol more than ever now. I'll check back tomorrow to see what contortions you've gone through to make borrowing something until it's paid off NOT a loan. And how you handle the issue of failing to make your perk payments or do the work agreed upon and my needing to repossess the goods I gave you in consideration of said perks/work/whatever; without making your system suck ballz (or exactly like the Capitalism you say has failed).

a reply to: purplemer
I laughed so hard. But its so true.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: ketsuko

The lack of ability to accrue debt, the inability to go above the highest ceiling, or below the lowest floor, the lack of any type of cash that can vary in value. Objects in said economy have a set value within it's standard of living purchasing power, and thus can only be traded downward. If the objects value changes, it changes for everybody, if A can get the object anyone else who is A can too so long as he didn't choose to get a different object of the same worth instead. This makes it so objects can only be sold for less than it's determined worth, not more, as anyone with more can get said object already. The currently capitalism system allows for goods to be arbitrarily inflated in value. It also allows for monetary debt, something this does not. You cannot go into perk debt, perks aren't something you can give away. You can give away goods purchased with perks but you cannot give away perks like cash.

So I say again. You want a command economy. This has never worked. Venezuela is the latest in a long line of failed experiments at this.

They don't even have condoms down there right now, and you can forget toilet paper.

a reply to: ketsuko

Who needs condoms I adhere to the spread your genes philosophy.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: ketsuko

Who needs condoms I adhere to the spread your genes philosophy.

Yeah, but that gets a little hard if you can't even keep you butt clean because you have no toilet paper. Who wants to sleep with that?

It's so bad down there that they are thinking about making it illegal for people to pay other people to stand in the TP lines for them while they work.

a reply to: Borisbanger

Its runaway capitalism I think is the problem.

No it capitalism that is the problem.

There is a problem when there is more debt in the world than money.

Its a problem when free trade laws are set up in order to keep nations in perpetual debt.

Its a problem when 1% of the worlds population control most of the worlds money and compose the laws of nations.

Its a problem when organisatons like the world bank, wto and imf are used as politcal tools of the empire.

Its a problem that entire nations starve becuase of ecomomic warefare and a man made concept...

Its a problem when economic growth comes at the expense of ecosystems and biodiveristy..

Yes its a problem we can do better

Purp..

a reply to: six67seven

I forgot capitalism only exists in the good ole USA....

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: six67seven

I forgot capitalism only exists in the good ole USA....

It doesn't actually exist here anymore, but people get taught this is the system we have so that no one wants to actually find out what it might be like.

Remember, TPTB want to further enslave you, not free you. Debt is perfect for this, and anything that takes away ever more of your wealth and the choices you can make with it also serves.

Capitalism is at its heart freedom. THe freedom to make choices about what to do with your goods and services and the wealth you accrue as a result.

a reply to: TechniXcality

ever mind, we will likely destroy our self before we even become a solar system fairing species. Monkeys with guns

Looking at how life works on the planet and past fossil records. We tend to get creative leaps when there is a need for change. I kinda hope that we get one of these creative leaps soon becuase they way we are doing things at the moment is just stupid..

Glad you liked the meme

purp..

a reply to: snowen20

Because current capitalism allows for monetary debt, especially in the way of interest.

If Z repo's your car that's it, they don't get to keep coming after you for money owed, as there is no money owed. Main difference is as said, perks aren't money you can't trade them as if they are a resource like money. You can only offer goods purchased with perks, or services. There is no such thing as interest, there's no such thing as debt.

Key thing to remember is all your needs are being met at lowest standard to survive and get to work. The only thing jobs truly get you are wants, not needs. Better shelter, better food, more games, nicer vehicles, better clothes, ect. so at no point will having anything repossessed make you indebted for life or significantly harm you, at absolute worst, all that anyone who loans to you can do is put you right back where you started before you borrowed the object in question that you didn't need in the first place.

a reply to: Puppylove

Oh so you are providing food, clothing and shelter. How does that happen? Who works without compensation to provide that?

You are basically demanding that entire segments of your economy slave to the needs of others.

Your system promotes slavery.

a reply to: ketsuko

Capitalism is at its heart freedom. THe freedom to make choices about what to do with your goods and services and the wealth you accrue as a result.

Sorry that is just tripe. You dont think there was any such thing as freedom before capitalism. You think you are free in a capitalist economomy.. Try going somewhere without money and see how free you are..

Purp..

a reply to: ketsuko

Doube post..

Will replace with another meme.. and a point for thought.



purp..

a reply to: purplemer

Try going somewhere in any economy without a means of sustaining yourself.

You're gonna have a bad day.

a reply to: purplemer
Yes but my nihilistic side tends to come out in such debates I've seen enough suffering in my 26 year old life. Wish it all to end and work and help whenever I can.
Need more of this can't embed cell phone. Bob Dylan times they are a changing m.youtube.com...

I think employee owned cooperatives or collectives are the next big thing. It's a way of working under capitalism, but sans corporate structure. (No exclusive executive-class type management.) The hard part is getting people on the same page to start these things, since all risk is shared evenly. However the benefit of such an organization for the workers once established outweighs any typical business, since profits are shared evenly instead of directed one-way up the ladder. No shareholders as employees work for themselves, pooled resources for purchase of things required to do the job, some people do have management-type jobs only for ensuring productivity (scheduling and keeping tasks coming so nobody is left idle) and others for working around the established legal status quo (because government and lawyers), but most major decisions are by a vote of all employees. Seems unlikely you'd vote yourself out of a job if working at such a place, so it would be a way of taming the lousy job-market in an globalization economy.