"US DoD have confirmed the UFO phenomenon is real"

a reply to: Bybyots

I won't speculate on chances but here's Kit's response...

That 'narrow RF bandwidth' I intended to specify is actually a 'BroadBand' NIEMR. It is a smaller portion of the RF range. It is at the "upper" end from high microwave and above including 10 GHz [millimeter] and Terahertz [sub-millimenter] wavelengths. This 'Broadband' NIEMR… micro-, -mm, and THz waves … cause molecular rotation, vibration, and especially intermolecular motion in human tissues. All these are dose-dependent, and can cause skin and central neuron heating, burns, sub–clinical to worse peripheral neurogenic, and connective tissue (including cardiac valve) injuries and growth of clones of cells into neoplasms. So : 'Broadband' NIEMR is a 'narrow bandwitdth' subset of the the much more broad Radiofrequency band … the [to me] most worrisome frequencies are above 300 GHz through 3,000 GHz. All these RF and NIEMR (and higher frequencies / shorter wavelengths) are below visible and of course even higher frequencies / shorter wavelength X-Rays.

How's that? And yes, he's a very, very, busy, and in high demand fellow, so it took more than a "week" to get his response". I got it today.

a reply to: Springer

Thanks Springer.

I'll take that with a shaker of salt at the moment, as that would all mean that Kit must be revealing what is not only hidden in Burroughs' medical record but also what is underneath all of the "XXXs" in the Project Condign UAPoUKADR report.

I have to think about that for a week or so.

Also, as we have all now hitched our wagons to Project Condign, for better or worse, we have to decide if this was the weather, or people #ing around with machines based on stuff they learned researching the weird weather discussed in PCs report (which seems to be exemplified at Hessdalen), because being married to Project Condign means no aliens, so that third option is out. It is clear that Burroughs is confused.

Thanks again and have a good evening.

a reply to: Guest101

But for sudden 90 degree turns you need either very low mass or very high propulsion power. So either a very small drone or one that makes a LOT of noise…

Well, instead of a small drone, what if it were some sort of LTA hybrid?

Take all the time you need and have a great evening yourself.

A most interesting and and as usual, throws up many more questions than can currently, be satisfactorily answered. I would like to reiterate something I have mentioned before with regards to "Close up and personal cases". In my experience the hoaxes are more likely to be, those cases where witnesses totally agree and concur in their evidence. Note that in this particular case, the evidence from what might well term as "stand off" participants tends to hang together and form a fairly cohesive whole. It is only those who were up close with it where stories tend to diverge . It is my opinion rather than, as some people see it, it hampering and damaging a case it actually suggests that the parties were most definitely party to some sort of "weird" experience.

That experience seems to relate back to one's core belief system and personal view of the universe we inhabit. The increasing impression I have of what happened that winter is that, someone, ie us as a species, decided to poke a nest and see what the reaction would be and they reaped something they neither could control or truly understand and probably, still don't. There is part of me that wants to simply write all of this phenomenon off as a totally convincing hallucinatory experience that can cause lasting side effects through our own brain being convinced it was a "real episode". Think of any damage post the incident as being a sort of reverse placebo effect? The "victim" is convinced they were exposed to damaging radiation of some sort, they physically react as if poisoned and begin to show very "real symptoms". Problem is, that simply doesn't explain the many cases where, those stand off witnesses seem the same object and it most patently isn't "one of ours".

Could it be, it's a form of stealth that does not bare close scrutiny on a visual level, yet from a distance can convince most people it is, circular, cigar shaped, triangular, whatever? However, when viewed in close up it generates some sort of filed that in effect, scrambles our brain and lets people see , almost that they subconsciously, expect to see. Not only that, it lies dormant in the brain over an extended period and continues to "colour" ones memories and perceptions of what happened to a "victim"?

It's at that point I have to say, that ain't us, it ain't us humans doing that. It could be some naturally occurring phenomenon and yet, I find that almost more incredible to contemplate than it being a non human intelligence. There are too many incidents where, if it were just a natural none cognitive and dumb phenomenon then, there would have have been a whole series of known deaths attributable to it, as aircraft simply fell from the sky as their vital systems failed. We would have to had gone public about it and admitted it, as it would constitute a "known" threat to all air travel.

There's a key here in my opinion. That key being, the old adage, "We see no threat from the phenomenon" is simply another way of saying "We couldn't do a damned thing if it decided to wipe us from the face of the Earth, they've had ample opportunity to and haven't ergo, we do not perceive them as a threat and we'd kindly just like to pretend it doesn't happen at all".


That doesn't make it aliens per se, it's just totally "alien" to our as yet, scientific understanding of the universe we live in.

I see there is a fare amount of discussion here and some of it is indeed interesting and some going in circles.

All info can help and here is some further info to take a look into for those looking further.


www.facebook.com...

a reply to: Springer

How's that?

In short:

My question was "Which one is it that caused Burroughs' injuries? The 'narrowband RF', or the 'broadband NIEMR'?"

Under the circumstances, based on everything that we know about Burroughs' story, the best answer would be "both", and indeed, Kit's answer is that it is "both".

Only Kit took a turn I wasn't expecting: not only did he reveal a hitherto unknown word, "central neuron", but he managed to say "both" by selecting a "narrow band" of just-barely-NIEMR and calling that subset a "broad band". In other words, a single "band" carrying multiple distinct frequencies.

Band specifics aside, this is some of the first solid stuff I've run across on EM stuff that could be used as a weapon. I wonder what Project Sleeping Beauty worked with... (actually if Kit could help with this aspect - it'd be fantastic, documentation on the 'fun' projects seems to be pretty sparse). That being said, is it possible to work out the strength of the RF signal from Burroughs injuries? The power source, or what we can deduce about it, would go a long way towards identifying the ultimate origin of the mysterious air form.

Granted, I could understand why Kit would be reluctant to give details. A skilled hobbyist up to no good could probably cause all kinds of unpleasantness if they dicked around with this in public...

Can NIEMR cause hallucinations?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

From what I’ve read so far, I would say the NIEMR had an intensity of 42 eMW (ethical Mega Watts), but I could be wrong. At least I’m glad they were able to organize the support to heal John.
Anything that interacts with the human body can be turned into a weapon if you apply enough energy, even a pencil. But using a pencil to write a good story is much harder and much more admirable.

Has anyone ever wondered if the military "dresses" these crafts up with weird designs and crazy alien looking "linguistics" so people think that its alien in nature?

Michael Portillo featured a segment on Rendlesham in his BBC series "Portillo's State Secrets" earlier tonight.

For those of us in the UK & Ireland it is available for 30 days via BBC I-player : Link

It was a sort of "much ado about nothing" piece. Portillo peers through his spectacles at the Halt Memo looking intrigued. Later Dr. David Clarke explains that the three holes in the ground were viewed as "rabbit scratchings" by the local police and that the radiation readings were nothing unusual in a pine forest. He then rather glibly states something did happen but only 3 of the soldiers are saying it was supernatural whilst there were many more on the bases who believe no such thing. Strangely the lighthouse theory was hardly mentioned. It all then ends with a feature on how we might actually discover alien life.

One little fact slipped out though. Portillo (the Secretary of State for Defence in the UK gov. between July 1995 & May 1997) clearly states that nuclear weapons were housed at the bases.

Something all of our main witnesses (except Larry Warren) and even Nick Pope will still not comment on to this day.

a reply to: FireMoon

Yes but it might be simple: 'warp drive' screws up unshielded nearby brains. Physics: transcranial magnetic induction.

I think it's probably 'ours'.

a reply to: mbkennel

In my humble opinion.

MB's Right. They probably are ours. Many of the craft probably use a form of MHD propulsion. Get too close and you may get inside it's magnetic field and get transcranial inductance effects. Plus, those mag fields will also generate E fields inside the body and so on. If you're too close and those drives are running at high power levels it can either accidently stun you with the induced shock or potentially kill you. But it will screw with your brain either way even if just a little.

basically with these craft to propel themselves they have to be surrounded in a plasma medium. The air is not naturally ionized enough to become one of these plasmas so at first they probably used electrostatic methods to ionize the air. Hence cars shutting down from proximity to the crafts presence. But electrostatic methods can be dangerous. So they probably moved on to Radio Frequencies to do the job. RF can induce E & B fields in a human brain if the frequencies are right and powerful enough. Get too close and the RF can induce E & B fields causing hallucinations or worse. They have most likely switched to photons to energize the air and create this plasma medium for the MHD drive to manipulate and use as propulsion. Using photons is a lot safer but probably has it's own set of dangers. Bottom line is I think they are trying to make these craft safer than they used to be, and that they are not a threat to the human population except in accidental instances.

originally posted by: mbkennel
a reply to: FireMoon

Yes but it might be simple: 'warp drive' screws up unshielded nearby brains. Physics: transcranial magnetic induction.

I think it's probably 'ours'.

There's a huge problem with that explanation given that, theses craft were seen decades before we could even fly faster than sound. I can see how certain agencies would love people to think they are "ours" as it suits a particular agenda however, it all comes back to the filthy lucre. The billions to made in spin-offs from such technology are simply too much for human nature not to seek to exploit it. Greed has been shown time and time again to outrank loyalty to any particular creed, morals or nationalistic leanings . The phenomenon betrays a subtle touch that is just not human. It's far too inscrutable in its' teasing of us and that seems to be exactly what it does, tease us.

As for David Clarke, the guy is a completely busted flush, it's almost impossible to take him seriously these days after his exposure as a " MOD stooge". Note even this time last year when he was imploring his followers not to believe the stories surrounding him, he said something like. "I was never paid by the MOD". His use of language in that statement to my mind, speaks volumes.

a reply to: Anaana

a reply to: mirageman

I think it's interesting that Dr. David Clarke is a folklorist. I am wondering what sort of folklore and legend might have been attached to Rendlesham forest before being overshadowed by the Bentwaters incident.

Have either of you got any insight in to that?

a reply to: FireMoon

As for David Clarke, the guy is a completely busted flush, it's almost impossible to take him seriously these days after his exposure as a " MOD stooge".

Hi FireMoon,

I'd like to make myself abreast of Clarke's stoogeness. Where can I read about that? Why is he an MOD stooge?

Thanks in advance.

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Anaana

a reply to: mirageman

I think it's interesting that Dr. David Clarke is a folklorist. I am wondering what sort of folklore and legend might have been attached to Rendlesham forest before being overshadowed by the Bentwaters incident.

Have either of you got any insight in to that?

I think Redfern discusses this in some of his books. Apparently the forest was associated with Fortean stuff (ie 'wildmen', weird lights) before this incident occurred.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

^^^^^^^

Thanks, I'm on the alert that this whole thing with Burroughs and the gang and Bentwaters might be even more ironic than it already is.

But I'm hoping for some source in print or online from anyone having nothing to do with UAPs, I'll see if I can dig that out of Redfern's stuff.

Thanks again.

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: FireMoon

As for David Clarke, the guy is a completely busted flush, it's almost impossible to take him seriously these days after his exposure as a " MOD stooge".

Hi FireMoon,

I'd like to make myself abreast of Clarke's stoogeness. Where can I read about that? Why is he an MOD stooge?

Thanks in advance.

Look up the whole shebang on "The Sheffield Incident" where Max Burns caught him out lying big time and quite obviously trying to lean on witnesses to change their statements. Unfortunately for Clarke, Max had taped the conversation he had with a witness and had a friend who was listening in during the conversation who confirmed what Max had said was 100% accurate.

As for folklore, I have myself questioned why Clarke has never once spoken about the folklore surrounding the Rendlesham area. Again, I have myself delved into it and posted it on this very site in some of the threads pertaining to the case.

Here's a brief resume.... History of Black Dog sightings stretching back as far as the records go. No real reason for there being a forest on land that has traditionally, always been under pressure to produce food crops since the days of the Romans. A low population density in the middle of one of the longest cultivated and most densely populated rural parts of the country. History of "weird lights" weaving through the trees in particular "red globes" that continues to today. Local legend that a "mermaid" inhabited the pool that once existed in the centre of the forest. Mermaids were originally the water spirits of pools and lakes however, here we are talking about a history of "other worldly creatures", that seems to go hand in hand with other UFO "hotspots", particularly in Britain and the USA.

a reply to: FireMoon

Thanks very much. I have found Max's article Usual Suspects and I am digesting it now. It's good to have a way to begin to put Clarke in to perspective. I am trying to get as clear as I can on how he relates to Project Condign and Burns' article is very helpful.

Also, thanks again for the information on Rendlesham forest, I thought that might have been the case, but I wasn't expecting it to be that strange. I love the detail about the low population-density and how it resists being farmed despite the need for food production. In some ways it reminds me of the early days of our West Virginia.