Neighbor from h*ll puts up Swastika display; Claims it's 'Art'

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: Mr Mask

Ok. I won't buy your art.

You don't have to. You don't have to buy this guy's art either.

What you DO have to do is stand for freedom of speech and defend this guy's rights.

Oh wait...you have one more option...be a hypocrite who lives off the rewards of dead soldiers who granted you your freedoms, while you spit on others actually using them.

Your choice.

MM

When people get offended or upset over something like this, the "artist" is getting what he wants. He's winning. He's trying to make a controversial statement, and it looks like he's getting the attention he wanted.

People take everything to personally these days, and make everything about them and how they feel. Most of what other people do has nothing to do with them, and they're going to do what they want anyway.

It really is a waste of emotional energy to get worked up over 99% of the things we do.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
So another words, most of this guy's neighbours are completely missing the 'stop-the-Palestinian-genocide-US/Israel-allied-war-mongering' message he's displaying in his front lawn ?

All they see is a swastika and the rest flew right over their heads ?

Why doesn't this surprise me...

Exactly. I can see his neighbors now...all putting on white cloaks and pointy sheet hats, slipping out at night to teach this "artist" what American freedom is all about.

Quick little fact check for those upset by this display. You don't even understand it. You are baffled and offended by something that goes over your head while you spit on his freedoms you seem to feel are being abused.

MM

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: Mr Mask

You basically just either ignored my points, or warped them to dodge having to respond to the actual point, and all while mixing in stereotypical anti-American rants and verging on antisemitism at the same time.

Well done you.

And yes, I would recommend you calm down a little, maybe put on a Jay-Z CD and sip a nice cold Coke.

No I did not.

And you accuse me of antisemitism? Hahahaha. Me?!

Sigh...how wonderful it must be to live inside your mind.

I am not an antisemite.

And YOU are trying to remove rights from a man who owns them.

End of story.

MM

a reply to: Anyafaj

So the question is, is this hate speech masquerading as "art"? Or is this art gone too far?

So my only two choices are 'hate speech' or 'art gone too far'?

Well, there does not exist a good definition of 'hate speech' anymore than there is a good definition of 'love speech' or 'ambivalent speech'. So I vote NO on hate speech.

That leaves me with 'art gone too far'. I do not feel comfortable with this choice either as I am not clear on how far 'too far' is. I do not agree with the rhetorical fallacy of pornography by a school yet I kinda' see what you are trying to get at.

I guess I see it as a 1st Amendment issue. If there are some HOA Nazis (bad pun I know) in this guy's neighborhood maybe it is a different story.

Its so simple.
Dont like it? then dont look!
Problem solved.

Seems to be some confusion here. The man displaying the flags is not a Nazi but calling Israel and the USA Nazis. To explain more: He has a Palestinian Flag that is not altered. The Israeli flag with a swastika in place of the star denotes, similar with the US flag, that of Nazi Zionists. You know... Fascism against Palestine, etc.

a reply to: Mr Mask

I guess the swastika on the Israel and US flags next to the Palestinian flag isn't obvious enough at what it is he's trying to say.

Maybe he should have just wrote a big sign that said: "Stop the US from financing Israel's genocide of the Palestinians !"

But then again... that message probably would have flown over their heads as well since it didn't involve Simon Cowell or Honey Boo Boo.

originally posted by: Mr Mask

HIS MESSAGE IS THAT AMERICANS ARE DUMB AND BLIND TO ATROCITIES ON WEAKER PEOPLE.

His message is to take notice.

His message is clear and we need more people doing this.

The only "shame" here...is the shame you, me and everyone who pays for the murder of millions should be feeling.

This guy may be a sucky artist...but he sure as hell got people talking about larger issues than who won the last Oscar.

MM

How do you know that is his message?? So far you're the only one who's made that claim. Not even he has said anything about it to give it any context or meaning yet.

How do you know he's not just a dick???

originally posted by: Mr Mask

Ok artist guy...then get this.

You're an "artist guy" too, remember?
Attempting to make it sound demeaning is only demeaning yourself.

originally posted by: Mr Mask
HIS MESSAGE IS THAT AMERICANS ARE DUMB AND BLIND TO ATROCITIES ON WEAKER PEOPLE.

If that's the case, it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Invoking the imagery of one of the most evil periods and regimes of living memory, attacking a particular group of people in a time when they are already feeling threatened, is not a very creative way to express that point.

But hell, I'm not an art critic, I loathe them. I just know the difference between right and wrong and understand that just because something can be said does not mean it should be, or even needs to be.

originally posted by: Mr Mask
His message is to take notice.

His message is clear and we need more people doing this.

The only "shame" here...is the shame you, me and everyone who pays for the murder of millions should be feeling.

This guy may be a sucky artist...but he sure as hell got people talking about larger issues than who won the last Oscar.

Tell me...how much talk is your "safe art" getting?

MM

First, my art is not "safe".
However, I've always been a purist and prefer the feel of a brush or pencil in my hand to a plan in a notebook or a political statement. Not that there's anything wrong with any other form of creativity. In fact I love plenty of dangerous art designed to question the viewer.

The thing is, and this is what you're not getting, it's far more effective to create something that challenges and demands conversation when the subject is what's being discussed rather than the outrage it's caused.

Emin, for example, was widely misunderstood for her Unmade Bed, but it was discussed because of what it was, not because it was in her front lawn offending the neighbours.

I get that you're passionate and idealistic, I really do, but even though I agree with the core political sentiment supposedly behind this, I cannot agree with the threatening way it's being presented. As I said, art does not exist in a vacuum, it exists in society. If you spend your creative time offending the society it exists within, is it actually saying anything?

If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: Mr Mask

I guess the swastika on the Israel and US flags next to the Palestinian flag isn't obvious enough at what it is he's trying to say.

That helps made some more sense out of it actually.

Maybe rather than complain about it and report about it being a problem they should make a more accurate report of it so people understand his message. It would help if he would try and explain his message a bit more too for those who only know about it from an article written about it rather than seeing it for themselves.

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Seems to be some confusion here. The man displaying the flags is not a Nazi but calling Israel and the USA Nazis. To explain more: He has a Palestinian Flag that is not altered. The Israeli flag with a swastika in place of the star denotes, similar with the US flag, that of Nazi Zionists. You know... Fascism against Palestine, etc.

Thank you.

Hopefully now the confused ones here will now smack their heads and say "oooooooooh! OH!!! I get it!"

Sadly many of them will end that moment by saying "Who the hell is Palestine?".

MM

a reply to: Mr Mask

You assume I am NOT in the military or have been.

You feel the need to tell me what I must "DO", and then mention freedom??

Hmmm...

At least the guy has a sense of Christmas cheer. I wonder if he gets any trick-or-treaters on Halloween?

originally posted by: Mr Mask

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Seems to be some confusion here. The man displaying the flags is not a Nazi but calling Israel and the USA Nazis. To explain more: He has a Palestinian Flag that is not altered. The Israeli flag with a swastika in place of the star denotes, similar with the US flag, that of Nazi Zionists. You know... Fascism against Palestine, etc.

Thank you.

Hopefully now the confused ones here will now smack their heads and say "oooooooooh! OH!!! I get it!"

Sadly many of them will end that moment by saying "Who the hell is Palestine?".

MM

There are plenty of people here who understand what you are saying, and plenty here who have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian cause (me being one of them), but that does not negate the threatening nature of that symbol.

Saying "oh, get over it!" does not remove the fact that this symbol is directly linked to the slaughter of millions of people.

Maybe this is a generational thing?
Maybe because I'm in my 30's I have a better understanding of history?

The Israeli state is NOT the Jewish people.
The US government is NOT equivalent of to the Nazis.

Although he might have the RIGHT to express himself in this way, the question is what can be done to limit the damage and the threat this obviously poses to people who might not understand his intent.

Like it or not, there will be plenty of people in that neighbourhood who don't understand his intent (if it's as claimed), and seeing that symbol instantly raises emotions in people.

Like I said, I'm wondering if this is a generational thing. Seems to me there might be a lot of younger people who simply don't understand the horror of WW2 and what this symbol means to a hell of a lot of people.

originally posted by: Rocker2013


You're an "artist guy" too, remember?
Attempting to make it sound demeaning is only demeaning yourself.

Frankly speaking- you have suggested I am an Antisemite.

I do not care for your views on art and find them to be very stiled, safe and predictable.

I much rather be seeing more art like this guy's front lawn than hear the views of artists who think "art should pander to society".

Art panders to nobody. Once it does...it no longer is art. It becomes propaganda suited for the simple-minded.

Real art makes waves. Real art expresses the artist. Real art don't ask politely to be considered nicely.

In fact- most great artists in the history of modern mankind got famous by breaking the clam of society's views. Not by "painting nice little flowers and houses" that reflect a broken people's messed up "safe ideas".

I defend and respect this man's rights to offend you.

Call me an Anti-Semite again and I may explain deeper on why this man is going viral and you are not. The real artist is the one who invokes thought and emotion...the fake artist spoon feeds silly meaningless crap that can't bother or harm a fly.

MM

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
At least the guy has a sense of Christmas cheer. I wonder if he gets any trick-or-treaters on Halloween?

LOL

originally posted by: Rocker2013


There are plenty of people here who understand what you are saying, and plenty here who have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian cause (me being one of them), but that does not negate the threatening nature of that symbol.

Saying "oh, get over it!" does not remove the fact that this symbol is directly linked to the slaughter of millions of people.

That SYMBOL is not illegal. YOU just don't like it. KNOW WHAT? You can sing Nazi songs and paint Hitler all day! Its your free right.

You scare me friend. You seem very ready to box "art" up into a cage that reflects your sensitivities.

Sorry bro...real artists don't care if a swastika scares or offends you.

Nor should anyone spend a moment's hesitation considering your fears of such a symbol.

Its a symbol. Its being used to make a statement. A strong one.

If the "Red Crayon" was used to color Hitler's armies...should that crayon also be removed from the artist's tool box?

My god...people are dying...this man is screaming into the "uneducated void" known as America over the insanity he witnesses on his short time on this earth.

ART is not for you. Artists don't care what YOU feel. Artists makes art to show YOU how THEY feel.

Learn that...or don't.

MM

a reply to: Mr Mask

I'm with you on most of what you said. I have no problem with offending people with art. Sometimes they need to be offended to wake them up, fine.

The only part I would disagree with is that this "Highly Artistic" for lack of a better term. It's art, sure. It has a message, sure. If you're right about the message I actually agree with the message too, not that that matters of course.

However, in my opinion, Real Art is something that not just anyone is able to do. Regardless of the message, if someone's art is only as talented as 90% of what anyone else could do, it's really kinda crappy art. Art, sure, but nothing special.

It's akin to rubbing dog crap or something on a bible, nailing it to a piece of wood and calling it art. Art yes. Message yes. Get's people to pay attention, ok. But as far as art goes, it's crappy (no pun intended). It's lazy and untalented and is really just a cheesy way to put some kind of message out. I personally find that kind of art sorta lame because it takes no unique talent, it's just a way to push some kind of message to people.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
At least the guy has a sense of Christmas cheer. I wonder if he gets any trick-or-treaters on Halloween?

Nothing in this world would get me to knock on that man's door lol.

Hell no.

MM