First time reading the Quran, My impression

a reply to: MstWntd
If you are going to discredit the bible then you undermine your own Qur'an. If there is no truth in it what so ever then the story of Jesus is no use either. Besides the bible and maybe Josephus there is no real record of him. This is before the Qur'an.
Mohammed was illiterate so how did he get these stories, he heard them and past them on. He is the only so called prophet that didn't do any miracles and was possessed by a demon. The Qur'an was only written after his death. Yet you are saying it is the same god through out the bible and the Qur'an. This almighty being can't seem to communicate clearly and loves picking sides or both books are man made. Just like the Mormon prophet Joseph smith made the book of Mormon.
Jesus coming back to destroy crosses and get rid of pigs? Didn't Allah create pigs so what did the pig ever do. The whole story seems made up and skewed in your favour. Just like the Mormons it is skewed in their favour and the second coming of Jesus is in Missouri. Both stories are implausible.
I'm keeping my beer and bacon.

If you are going to discredit the bible then you undermine your own Qur'an. If there is no truth in it what so ever then the story of Jesus is no use either. Besides the bible and maybe Josephus there is no real record of him. This is before the Qur'an.

OK celtic.. that statement isn't too far from the truth, depending what your understanding is when the Quran talks about the Bible. The Quran talks about praying for example, but doesn't say how to pray, how many times to pray, etc... This information is found in the Hadith's (sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and taafsir ibn Kathir.. In a similar fashion the Quran mentions Injeel (the gospel) but doesnt say exactly what it is.. but further light is shed upon this matter when reading other sources of Islamic understanding.. but all that set aside.. the Quran substantiates the Injeel as something Allah sent down.. and Allah only sends down messenges to Prophets such as Moses (pbuh), Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh).. not mark matthew etc...

So in conclusion if we debunk the current standing Bible.. then no discredit is done to the Quran.. furthermore I do agree there is some truth in the Bible.. how hard is it to acknowledge that the Bible (from a muslim's perspective) is a book that has been written by the hands of man with the lies of men and carries some truth from the messengers of Allah.. but then as a whole is a corrupted book..

Notice, all muslim's say that the bible is corrupted.. not that it is a complete lie.. it is like saying there is a jug of pure water.. with a drop of urine in it.. the water is corrupted.. it is not fit for drinking.. but if you insist on drinking such water then I will point out that yeah, a portion of it is bad.. if taken in great quantity it is even toxic..

Mohammed was illiterate so how did he get these stories, he heard them and past them on. He is the only so called prophet that didn't do any miracles and was possessed by a demon.

My friend, you are entitled to your opinions.. But I would like some evidence rather than vigorous accusations.. I have seen some people push forth certain hadiths on this matter but they are grossly twisted.. so please do vet the information before posting it..

Mind you, people at the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) could not say this was his own work.. they could not say it was the work of someone else either.. because even if the message was the same as that of the Torah, etc.. it was delieverd in a manner that was completely unseen before.. it broke the Arabic language and put it together in ways that the best of Arabic literature scholar at the time (and they were the best ever) could not contest the miracle of the Quran..

That being said there are things in the Quran that people of that time could not have possibly known.. so it beggars belief that it came from any human source even from that millenium.. but thats another talk entirely..

The Qur'an was only written after his death. Yet you are saying it is the same god through out the bible and the Qur'an. This almighty being can't seem to communicate clearly and loves picking sides or both books are man made. Just like the Mormon prophet Joseph smith made the book of Mormon.

The Quran was written down on parchments, etc and it was memorised upon delivery. This is something that we might not be able to do easily, as we have devices to memorise information for us, we have mobiles and pens a the ready.

Note I stress the Quran was memorised at the source by numerous people, this is vital, it is like me and you memorising the 2 times table and I say "2 x 2 is 6" and your like "no bro 2 x 2 is 4" and others will agree... there is no hope of the 2 times table/Quran being corrupted, it is more secure in the hearts and minds than on paper..

Mind you the Quran is the only book (holy or otherwise) that is memorised on a global scale, to the extent that if you destroyed all paper Qurans, an exact copy of the ORIGINAL arabic Quran can be recreated just by pulling together two or three hafiz's (people who memorised the Quran).. One hafiz is enough, but 2 or 3 will more than suffice for verification purposes..

As for the communication of Allah.. He created all and is perfect in all aspects.. As for Allah Almighty choosing what to do.. He can do as He wills.. as for your statement about picking sides.. The Jews tried killing messengers sent by Allah.. so Allah took the most backward people of the time (the Arabs.. backward in terms of religious practice.. before Islam they would do naked pilgrimage and practice infanticide, etc...) and gave them guidance and through them gave mercy to the whole of humanity and worlds..

Jesus coming back to destroy crosses and get rid of pigs? Didn't Allah create pigs so what did the pig ever do. The whole story seems made up and skewed in your favour.

Allah also created the devil.. Allah (swt) is All Wise, All Powerful and Most Merciful.. you can not separate the entity in question from its attributes and then question its decisions.. that is illogical and would not always lead to the correct result.. As for the whole story seems made up and such.. if you are talking about the coming of Jesus (pbuh) then even the Bible says in the second coming Jesus (pbuh) will tell all that did acts in his name (basically the christians) to go away and that he doesnt know them and that they practiced evil/sin..

biblehub.com...
Matthew 7:22 - 23

Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

If you still contest that, then please give me another example and we will see how it goes..

Just like the Mormons it is skewed in their favour and the second coming of Jesus is in Missouri. Both stories are implausible.

Sorry, I dont know enough about the mormons to comment.

I'm keeping my beer and bacon.

I hear hear bacon is tasty.. I also hear that it is the closest thing you can eat to human flesh.. I also hear that the pig would eat its own waste a few times.. so most likely the fat of the pig you're eating has traces of feces.. it eats its own waste because its digestive system is really poor, hence it doesn't remove the impurities from the food and stores them in its fat/organs too..

All that being said.. Jesus (pbuh) himself didnt eat pigs.. hated them as do all Jews and Muslims.. There are verses in the Bible that say it is prohibited to eat a pig.. personally I see it as a good thing I am not allowed to eat that crap..

Quran itself says that there is some good to alcohol.. but the bad of it outweighs the good and hence it is prohibited for consumption.. the Bible is against drinking of alcohol.. you might find verses for it as well.. but like I said.. the Bible is a mix of truth and lies (according to my reality)..

originally posted by: MstWntd
a reply to: Created

For you to push the agenda of the Quran having changes after i have provided you with the process of how it was originated and then strictly standardised in accordance to authority provided by the source itself, is just either a clear depiction of your attempts to defame the integrity of the Quran or you are fundamentally unset when it comes to processing information. In either case I am quite disheartened to talk with you.. but I'll see how this continues..

And many different sects of different understandings thanks to wiki cite.
Sunni:The largest sect.
Shia:The second largest.
Sufism:The next one.
And there is others.

Yes there are different sects with different understanding.. for example I write "1 + 1 = 2", You might understand me as saying "11 is equal to 2".. but that doesn't mean there's different versions of what I write.. that means theres different understanding according to certain people..

The Quran has lots of changes through different translations, that even has different sect of Muslims.

If they are changes in translations then that does not mean the Quran has changes.. that means that the translations have changs.. which makes sense because A) a persons understanding of Arabic and English might (actually most definitely) differ from translator to translator and B) The language changes with time, so a translation now wont be the same as a translation 100 years ago..

This does not mean that the Quran has changed, there is no two Qurans that contain a difference in Arabic once you compare them.. for you to try and put this point forward in translations of the Quran is intellectual dishonesty..

In all citations you mentioned there is no difference in message, context, or meaning. The only difference is use of language and that too is not the Arabic language in which the Quran originates in

What your doing is a classic example of clutching at the straw man.. its either that or I have to assume you have a primary school understanding of the English language..

www.youtube.com...

You seem to be incorrect as seen from above. The words themselves were changed to help the understanding of the past 'word' or 'words'. For a modern day Quran was shown to be 'different' from a much earlier Quran. As this video shows that muslims agree with this but they trust it due to it being arab interpretation and understanding.

a reply to: celticdog

The first account of Muhammad (pbuh) being "possessed by a demon" is from around the 18th century...



The intellectual dishonesty and mental gymnastics in this thread are unbelievable...



Hence why I ceased replying and just read along...


I drew the line at your blatant lie.

None for you...

a reply to: MstWntd
I have read that Mohammed was illiterate and have read that he was literate. He wrote the marriage contract to Aisha. then I read this.
Sura 7:157: "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet,whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".

unlettered to me means illiterate. I don't know if it is how it is translated or what. Also I have read that some Muslims say that to that he was illiterate then it says Mohammed encouraged them to read and write. What to believe?

as for alcohol in the bible it has both positive and negative points. It is not against it, maybe you should actually look into the bible a bit more. You are doing the same thing with the bible you accuse me of doing with the Quran.

it says not to drink too much or join those that do. After the flood Noah got drunk. Lot's daughters got him drunk.
Wine is used in festivals and is kept in the temple. Jesus turn water into wine and wine was used at the last supper. The parable of the workers in the vineyard. There are lot more references to wine.

as for pigs Jesus cast demons in to them. As for the taste of bacon being close to human flesh I don't know about that.

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: MstWntd
I have read that Mohammed was illiterate and have read that he was literate. He wrote the marriage contract to Aisha. then I read this.
Sura 7:157: "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet,whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".

unlettered to me means illiterate. I don't know if it is how it is translated or what. Also I have read that some Muslims say that to that he was illiterate then it says Mohammed encouraged them to read and write. What to believe?

I have always heard that the claim was that he was illiterate, which is part of what is used as evidence for the quran's legitimacy. 'How could an illiterate man create such a brilliantly written document?'

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: celticdog

We can be friends with Christians and Jews...


That "infamous" verse of "intolerance" is in reference to Christians and Jews who were deceivers, or backstabbers, at that specific time in history.

Not all Jews & Christians, just the ones who were being deceptive, despite a Treaty between them and the Muslims.


Context is important.

As far as I'm aware of, it's the Judeo-Christian alliance.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Quran 22:52,53
Sahih International
And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet except that when he spoke [or recited], Satan threw into it [some misunderstanding]. But Allah abolishes that which Satan throws in; then Allah makes precise His verses. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

[That is] so He may make what Satan throws in a trial for those within whose hearts is disease and those hard of heart. And indeed, the wrongdoers are in extreme dissension.

sounds like something was spoken by satan through someone

53:19,21
So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?
And Manat, the third - the other one?
These are the daughters of Allah according to pagan Arabians


The first time the expression satanic verses was used was in 1858 Sir William Muir not that the first account that Mohammed was possessed was in 1858


Just a paragraph from Tabari's account

Gabriel came to the Prophet and said, 'O Muhammad, what have you done! You have recited to the people something which I have not brought you from God, and you have spoken what He did not say to you.'

At that the Prophet was mightily saddened and greatly feared God. But God, of His mercy, sent him a revelation, comforting him and diminishing the magnitude of what had happened. God told him that there had never been a previous prophet or apostle who had longed just as Muhammad had longed, and desired just as Muhammad had desired, but that Satan had cast into his longing just as he had cast onto the tongue of Muhammad. But God abrogates what Satan has cast, and puts His verses in proper order. That is, 'you are just like other prophets and apostles.'

It has also been recorded in four early major biographies of Muhammad; al-Waqidi, Ibn Saad, al-Tabari, and Ibn Ishaq.

I guess Mohammed got his ass chewed out for trying to make fools of the local pagans in mecca.


a little bit of a story about him.

After returning home from the cave of Harra', where he often went, Mohammed was frightened. He told his wife that a spirit claiming to be Gabriel appeared to him and choked him three times. Mohammed was convinced after this encounter that he had a devil inside him.
What kind of angel chokes a person? Seems kind of dark and demonic to me

“Yet they turn away from him and say: "Tutored (by others), a man possessed!" - Surah 44:14 (Yusuf Ali)

And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?" -Surah 37:36 (Yusuf Ali)

No, your compatriot [Muhammad] is not mad. He saw him [Gabriel] on the clear horizon. He does not grudge the secrets of the unseen, nor is this the utterance of an accursed devil. -Surah 81:22-25



I like how you say I am intellectually dishonest and a liar.I am sure you got some things wrong when you were converting.I am going by what I have read and researched. Prove where I am wrong because it has only been a few weeks of looking into your religion and I like looking at both sides And wonder why would one leave Islam and vice versa.

like other people are their prophets or leaders, the Mormons and scientology all believe they are greatest thing around and why is that when there is actual evidence to prove the contrary. Why? Well it would shatter what they believe is true and their bubble will be burst. A lot of people can't handle that so they put their doubts in the back of their minds and it creates a cognitive dissonance. This is why people don't like their religion criticized. It is too scary a thought to have their belief proven wrong. I have had a belief since childhood proven wrong. I use to defend it like mad.

It is not what you know that gets you in trouble it is what you know that's just aint so.

a reply to: celticdog



You do realise Jacob also wrestled with an Angel to be proven worthy?





I never called you intellectually dishonest I was speaking in the overall tone of the thread...

You at least get kudos for attempting to read the Quran...
However to be taken seriously in debate with a Muslim in reference to your assumptions, you do also need to be aware of the context when understanding scripture...


You want an example?

Start a thread, when you get the chance, to debunk the Bible, pick a few verses that seem overly zealous or ungodly...

& then you can expect a wave of Christians to come along who will tell you not to cherry pick or misrepresent what you have read...

Alas it is the same here, the only difference being this Forum has a ratio of 50-1 in favour of Christians in comparison to Muslims...

So between the 5(?) of us we have the duty of doing the work of a great many in numerous threads...

This gets tiresome because it's ad nauseam and have not many to pick up the slack...




Also I never called you a liar, I proclaimed that you are spreading blatant lie that was birthed around the 1700s...



Prior to that there is no mention of "demonic possession"...


Muhammad wrestled with the Angel Gabriel...
He had doubts about this encounter and was reassured by an in-Law through a description he had given which matched that of an Angelic experience with Gabriel...


This whole doubt in Muhammad's mind at the time dispels the all too common narrative that he just wanted to start a religion to control people...


On the contrary he almost kept it quiet for fear of being hounded out of Arabia...

Once it was revealed to Muhammad he had none to fear but Allah, who would guide him when persecution arose...
It gave him the confidence to spread the message in a region that was burying their daughters alive in the sand because they wanted to give a sacrifice to false gods in return for a Son as an heir...


Muhammad told these transgressors they would suffer a righteous punishment for their acts of abomination, proving he was not a conformist to the ideology of the time...

Which in turn dispels the rumours that the message of Allah was a fabrication to manipulate for Wordly pleasures...
He could have received all the Worldly pleasures he wanted in turn for keeping quiet...




You are adamant you don't like what you've read so far...
We are quite sure you have misinterpreted that which has irked you so...


& that is all too common in the World right now...


Try it with the Bible, see how quickly you get the same responses for the same lack of understanding you brought with you on your journey to know, rather than to understand.





The sky is blue...
Quite specific one would think...


What shade of blue...?
What part of the sky...?
During which hour of the Earths orbit...?


And suddenly what seemed so specific has been broken down into a very vague assessment.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
There are thousands of Christian denominations they all interpret it differently. And yes I know about Jacob wrestling with an angel. looking back I use to gloss over that when I was a Christian even though it sounded stupid to me.

I have spent quite a bit time since I have been off work with an injury reading ,searching and what have you. I haven't liked what I have read and to be honest and you are going to like this I wouldn't have read or researched any of this if it wasn't for ISIS. Islam seems to have a political side which I don't think is good.

You might like this too I read some of the Sikh book the Guru Granth Sahib.Kind of a mix of Islam and hindu and it read like the Quran as in list of quotes but besides that it was night and day. The Guru came across more philosophical were the Quran was more like do's and don'ts. With the Quran I felt like I was getting programmed because of the repetitiveness.

I know Christians have their crazies but ISIS is on a whole other level. I get that you have to defend your faith but there has to be part of you that is embarrassed to be Muslim because of them. Any way I have learned a lot so cheers mate keep the faith.

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: MstWntd
I have read that Mohammed was illiterate and have read that he was literate. He wrote the marriage contract to Aisha.
then I read this.
Sura 7:157: "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet,whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".

unlettered to me means illiterate. I don't know if it is how it is translated or what. Also I have read that some Muslims say that to that he was illiterate then it says Mohammed encouraged them to read and write. What to believe?

If there is a dispute between the Quran and the hadith then the Quran is correct and the hadith is wrong. simple. I have not come across any original text saying Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) could read/write.. but I have come across original accounts of him being unable to read/write.. Also this point would have been known to the pagans of his time and they would have attributed the Quran to him.. which they didnt..

as for alcohol in the bible it has both positive and negative points. It is not against it, maybe you should actually look into the bible a bit more. You are doing the same thing with the bible you accuse me of doing with the Quran.

These are just to name a few...

Ephesians 5:18 ESV / 167 helpful votes

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

Proverbs 20:1 ESV / 141 helpful votes

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

Galatians 5:21 ESV / 96 helpful votes

Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 5:8 ESV / 71 helpful votes

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1 Corinthians 6:10 ESV / 62 helpful votes

Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Proverbs 23:29-35 ESV / 60 helpful votes

Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine. Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things. ...

Proverbs 23:20-21 ESV / 55 helpful votes

Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

it says not to drink too much or join those that do. After the flood Noah got drunk. Lot's daughters got him drunk.
Wine is used in festivals and is kept in the temple. Jesus turn water into wine and wine was used at the last supper. The parable of the workers in the vineyard. There are lot more references to wine.

Yes, as according to the bible Lot's daughters also had sex with him.. porngraphy and incest is rife in the bible.. its not the word of God remotely.. As a Muslim I take what I agree with from the bible, point out what i disagree with and leave alone what Islam does not address in terms of Christianity..

as for pigs Jesus cast demons in to them. As for the taste of bacon being close to human flesh I don't know about that.

Yes, like rubbish goes into the bin.. so Jesus (pbuh) put casted demons in to pigs.. I can agree with that.. how does it justify you eating them?.. moreover so.. you are saying that you know pigs eat their own waste.. they have fecal matter in their fat and organs.. they have various diseases/bacteria stored in their fat and organs and yet you still eat them?..

www.spiegel.de...

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
I know Christians have their crazies but ISIS is on a whole other level. I get that you have to defend your faith but there has to be part of you that is embarrassed to be Muslim because of them. Any way I have learned a lot so cheers mate keep the faith.

No one "has to defend" their faith celtic.. I cant speak for anyone else but i honestly do not anyway.. you can have many truths.. based on your version of reality.. but ultimately there is only one reality.. hence fundamentally only one truth..

Now I dont defend Islam.. If i felt the need for me to defend it then I wouldn't want to be a muslim.. its like having a gf.. and then telling every guy to stay away from her.. whats the point in being in such a relationship?..

Islam is something that rings of that fundamental truth to me.. truth doesnt need to be defended..

Chapter (21) sūrat l-anbiyāa (The Prophets) verse 18

Nay, but We hurl the true against the false, and it doth break its head and lo! it vanisheth. And yours will be woe for that which ye ascribe (unto Him).

All I do is present my truth.. see your truth.. and see which reality makes more coherent and logical sense..

a reply to: celticdog

Why would I be embarrassed because of ISIS?

They do not represent me or my Faith in the slightest.

It's like saying I'd be embarrassed about Saudi Arabian leadership even though they follow Al Wahhab's teachings in favour of reading the Quran themselves...



ISIS are extremist anti-theists...
Probably extremely Communistic at the heart of the ideology...


They've contradicted the Quran so many times that it's futile trying to explain to people they're not even Muslims.



I have no problem spending time in this thread explaining the nuances that I've come to understand...
As long as you're willing to take it in board...

Don't take it at face value just from me, take what I've shared and corroborate it with other Muslim sources.


The Torah has dos and don'ts...
The Bible has dos and don'ts...
& so does the Holy Quran...


But there is much more to the Quran than just that...




As for the Politics in Islamic community...
It varies greatly...

Some places are beautiful to live, very secular, but with Sharia incorporated in a Quranic sense...

Then there is Nations with just an extreme interpretation of Sharia Law that derives from a myriad of Hadith...



And they are apples and oranges...

I'm in the minority, as a Quranist...
I do not put my Faith in the Hadith...

Allah said the Quran is perfect, a full guidance to Sharia (paraphrasing)...

The Hadith are too vast in number with inherent contradictions to ever come to a consensus of what is right...
Which is what has lead to so many sects and different Sharia Laws in different countries...


An eye for an eye, a hand for a hand...
Be merciful and you will be shown mercy...
That's the Quran...

It has been twisted into a hand for a miscellaneous item...
And no mercy is shown to the weak and persecuted...
That's the Humans...

It's not embarrassing, it's heartbreaking.

No offence, but this is why I am glad that not everyone is a Muslim...
Because some people who read the Quran can't help but turn it into an extremist outlook...

If you became a Muslim for example, you are interpreting what is said no different than the extremist "Clerics" & "Mullahs"...

It's yet another reason that negates the idea that us Muslims want to convert everyone on the spot...
If they cannot understand, then it is too futile an endeavour.

Because you do not wish to convert, but given how you've interpreted the Surah & Ayat...
You see yourself as being an Infidel in our eyes... & think we regard you with hostility...

There are many Infidels, even on ATS, but the people who ask questions and try to understand like yourself are far from an Infidel...




Inshallah you heal up quickly from your injury.

& if you wish we can continue dialogue...
I've enjoyed this because from page 1 to now, your outlook has changed...
Which says you're determined to understand for yourself rather than be dripfed by anyone's narrative...

originally posted by: [post=19020056]LittleByLittle

Below is pure non duality where killings cannot be justified at all. What a Muslim sent me Quran 5:32 said


the only innocence in Islamic theism would be a clean and pure Muslin. Therefore murder is justified.

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: [post=19020056]LittleByLittle

Below is pure non duality where killings cannot be justified at all. What a Muslim sent me Quran 5:32 said

the only innocence in Islamic theism would be a clean and pure Muslin. Therefore murder is justified.

Above is a complete fabrication and a verse taken out of context by yet another Islamophobe.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I rather think of them as Anti-Islamofascism because islam is not a religion, it is a political system.

Anyone who will say that religion is separate from politics is a fool; he does not know Islam or politics. -Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

so you see... they are only anti fascism

a reply to: AinElohim

We believe in Allah (swt)...
We listen to the Prophets (pbut)...
We follow the Holy Quran...


Islam is a religion, a way of life, but a religion nonetheless!



Ayatollah Khomeini is a nutcase who's word has no bearing on my, or a majority of Muslim's daily life.



So you see... Your premise in nonsense!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

In my opinion... Islam is plagiarized rubbish.

a reply to: AinElohim

Your entitled to your opinions.. As am I when I say in an intellectual exchange of evidence your opinion isn't worth the bits and bytes it is currently stored in.

By no means is is this an insult.. I'm only illustrating how you have no substance whatsoever and are exampling bigotry and defacing the religion of nearly 2 billion people...

a reply to: MstWntd
Why does Islam ring true for you but doesn't for me or others? This were I have an Issue with god. If there is only one god and he is all knowing, all seeing god should have known all what was going to happen. That everyone would be divided by all this and so called truth would be so obscure.