First time reading the Quran, My impression

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Embarrassed because they are considered Muslims. Just like Westboro church nuts are Christian. It may not effect your faith but are still the source of embarrassment.
As for different interpretation of both bible and Qur'an. The truth should stand out and should be clear. I got I different view point than you just from reading it myself. Why is that I have no idea? It shouldn't be like that but it is. Its like trying to sift through muck to find a pearl. It seems to me our connection with god is only on dial up or worse two cans strung together or like Moses/Flintstones chiselled on to rocks instead of high speed internet. Then it is mac or pc debate.
I know I have too many questions that is why I went from Christian to agnostic to agnostic atheist. It has been a long journey. Still searching and reading.

originally posted by: MstWntd
a reply to: AinElohim

Your entitled to your opinions.. As am I when I say in an intellectual exchange of evidence your opinion isn't worth the bits and bytes it is currently stored in.

yes, Your Highness... this is why Islam matters.

Not only does Islam not accept any other religion, it does not accept others opinions.

It is totalitarian fascism plain and simple.

yes, Your Highness... this is why Islam matters.

We are not amused..

Not only does Islam not accept any other religion,

You have no idea what your speaking about.. Clearly your taking your opinions and stating them as fact.. That is a poor show of intellectual and academic honesty..

Surah Al Kafiroon (109) full chapter

Say: "Oh, you who disbelieve!
"I do not worship that which you worship,
"Nor do you worship That Which I worship.
"Nor will I worship that which you have been worshipping,
"Neither will you worship That Which I worship.
"To you your religion and to me mine."

The above is a whole chapter in the Quran dedicated to disbelievers.. It clearly states that they have the freedom of following their own religion.. And that Muslims have the freedom of following their way of life..

How you can make such a warped statement about Islam when it is clear cut on the subject and says people have the right and freedom not to follow Islam is ludicrous..

it does not accept others opinions.

Debunked by above response..

It is totalitarian fascism plain and simple.

Please bother to at least Google.. You tried to make Islam look like a shallow, hate mongering, backward religion.. But instead you illustrated how bigoted you are and that your doing nothing but peddling hate for a religion whose very name means to obtain peace.. I'm pointing this out so we can have a nuance discussion and that you might do some fair and balanced research.. Rather than regurtate the Fox news narrative..

a reply to: MstWntd

The kafir have freedom following their own religion under tax and persecution, with the propagation of any other religion suppressed. That is only under a caliphate when occupying others land and making sexual relations with infants whom are the spoils of war.


www.girlsnotbrides.org...

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: MstWntd

The kafir have freedom following their own religion under tax and persecution, with the propagation of any other religion suppressed. That is only under a caliphate when occupying others land and making sexual relations with infants whom are the spoils of war.
[inappropriate depiction of an underage kid]
www.girlsnotbrides.org...

You are clearly driving an agenda.. You were refuted in your earlier statements/opinions and instead of having a civil and logical discussion where you appreciate the facts I have presented you with.. You take a "machine gun" approach and try to smear Islam again..

Do you know anything about the time this was carried out in?.. About how she was engaged to someone else and that appropriate permission was taken from her parents.. It was common practice.. since at the time there wasn't really any females allowed to anything else other than to get married.. And be an important part of a family..

There is so much to be said on this matter.. You name me an age where it is appropriate to get married/have sex.. In UK it's 16..in Spain it's 13..by British standards Spanish are pedos.. In the USA it's 18..by their standards UK is filled with pedos.. In fact other states in USA is 21 that makes Americans saying Americans are pedos..

There is more to be said.. The fact that you place an arbitrary number on someone doesn't automatically make them marriage ready.. In Islam it isn't a number.. The criteria is that the girl must be mentally, physically and emotionally fit.. She should have the permission of two her guardians.. There's one more but I can't recall it.. But yeah you see what the trouble with slapping on a number to marriage is?.. It doesn't facilitate a good marriage.. And is subjective to time and place.. So by your own very standards you have no ground to speak on the issue of the ages of Aisha (ra) the mother of the believers.. Because your secular method of slapping a number on is inconsistent.. Its not like the Islamic law on the matter which transcends time and location.. Because it is objective and addresses the direct principles that make a sound and coherent marriage..

Also I wud remove your pic if possible.. For no good reason your defaming an innocent girl..

a reply to: MstWntd

I pray passionately for God to bring down wrath upon Islam.

Islam is disgusting filth before the sight of the Lord and it will be removed.

a reply to: celticdog

Why does Islam ring true for you but doesn't for me or others?

You need to read this again.. it answers your questions as to why my truth is seems more plausible than any other.. (hint.. answer is in the activity listed in the end)

This were I have an Issue with god. If there is only one god and he is all knowing, all seeing god should have known all what was going to happen. That everyone would be divided by all this and so called truth would be so obscure.

And once more the answer to your questions is here.. but ill elaborate it for you.. each person has his own intellectual factuality and free will.. they form their own reality.. the very fact that Allah does not part the clouds and declare his presence is showing us that we have been given free by Allah will to the extent Allah will let us disbelieve if we choose to...
now like i said people make their own reality.. your reality could be that 1 + 1 = 4.. mine could be that too.. everyone else's reality could in fact be that 1 + 1 = 4 which would lead to truths such as "1 - 1 = -3".. but just because that is everyones reality and hence derived truths.. doesnt mean it is the ultimate reality and fundamental truth..

The ultimate reality is Allah.. the truth is what He wills..

The truth is only as obscure as your approach to the truth is.. truth by its nature is obvious.. always distinct.. it is our understanding that is obscure..

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: MstWntd

I pray passionately for God to bring down wrath upon Islam.

Islam is disgusting filth before the sight of the Lord and it will be removed.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/mn54f445e4.gif[/atsimg]

a reply to: AinElohim

'God hates all'

Slayer

'All is greek'

www.godhatestheworld.com...

a reply to: MstWntd
Thanks for clearing that up. So everyone's reality is different hence the truth is different for everyone. But it is not the ultimate truth because our understanding could be obscure.The truth is what he wills. Truth by nature is obvious. That leads us to the beginning again as to why you think the Qur'an is true and I don't. So you could be wrong and I could be right. Or the horror of ISIS being right. Talk about being cryptic.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: AinElohim

'God hates all'

Slayer

'All is greek'

www.godhatestheworld.com...

actually God only hates Islam... you see Western Secularism and the rest of the theistic world will never accept Islam because one only has to look into it to uncover the illiterate unenlightened tripe!

---

Ignorance is Bred... and at this very moment that I sit here writing this, there are scientist working in top secret satanic laboratories who are devising a chemical neutering agent that is targeted for specific Islamic genes.

originally posted by: AinElohim

Ignorance is Bred... and at this very moment that I sit here writing this, there are scientist working in top secret satanic laboratories who are devising a chemical neutering agent that is targeted for specific Islamic genes.

Pfahahaha, ahh you make me laugh.


Whatever you say dude. Unless you can come at me with some evidence to back up anything you say...

Evidence = Quranic verses + context.


I have nothing else to discuss with you.

And welcome to ATS.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

that's cool... it's better if you discover the pedophile religion on your own, self revelation has much greater impact.

but be careful... sick twisted dictatorial and dominant males are quite attracted to the practice.

it's so filthy... even I won't touch it! Islam is an insult to my intelligence.

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: MstWntd
Thanks for clearing that up. So everyone's reality is different hence the truth is different for everyone. But it is not the ultimate truth because our understanding could be obscure.The truth is what he wills. Truth by nature is obvious. That leads us to the beginning again as to why you think the Qur'an is true and I don't. So you could be wrong and I could be right. Or the horror of ISIS being right. Talk about being cryptic.

Yes.. thats more or less it.. from your perspective.. i on my part kept a neutral, unbiased and intellectually honest stance when giving you the rationality behind why people differ in their faiths.. its a shame you took from it only what you wanted.. which i believe is why you failed to A) glean something useful form the Quran and B) failed horribly to rant against the Quran..

I obviously didnt trip into a rant of "i believe it to be true so it must be true.." no that isn't the approach of a Muslim who is asked by the Quran over and over to contemplate.. to think.. to ponder.. But if you want my reasons I do T mind giving you them..

I gave you the rational of why each believes their faith to be true.. because it conforms to their reality.. I also told you why I believe mine to be true to the extent that it is in line with the ultimate reality.. of Allah and Islam.. because I actually break my truths down and challenge the reality.. question them with the reality of others.. Islam has always stood the test of time..

You imho sound confused but afraid of the truth.. And you said I was cryptic lol?.. let me set out a few reasons as to why I think the Quran/Islam is true..

A) There is a god (we didnt come from nothing.. another discussion but its a brute fact.. the universe was created)
B) There is only ONE god (occam's razor, this leads to Abrahamic faiths being true and others false, there's other reasons but that's another discussion)
C) This is not the God of the Jews (because no god would want me to born a jew for me to be in his religion + other reason)
D) This is no the God of the Christians (because these guys worship a man.. Plus they don't understand their own books and more reaons)
E) Islam means peace.. About 111 chapters from the Quran start "in the name of Allah the Most Beneficent and Most Merciful" now this sounds like God I can believe in.. One true God..
F) To date the Quran has not been proven false.. Its the only holy book that I know of that states all animals originated from the sea and then came on to land.. Which is the bases for the theory of evolution.. Words uttered by desert dweller nearly 1500 years ago..

I am not digging at anyone else's religion I am stating a small part of my logical process.. There's more to say.. But meh..

a reply to: MstWntd
Your circular reasoning was confusing but I more or less got it. Your right in your mind and I am wrong no matter what I say. Its like having an argument with my wife. So I am S.O.L. Even when there is no evidence that god talked to Mohammed. Assertion without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
And this why I am no longer religious is that you think you have the truth and I don't therefore making you superior. All religions do this not just yours. I am already going to hell, not going to heaven, dying at Armageddon, not going to the planet kolob(mormons) because I don't belief. I will quote your prophet Jesus "by their fruits you shall know them"

a reply to: celticdog

subjective reality, what can one say?

if something doesn't appear righteous and weighing that something it on the basis of all goodness.

then it is unjust... and there is much that is unjust about Islam.

it's also poor policy.

Islam doesn't know God...

The God of Abraham walks with us, God resides on earth as God resides in Heaven.

Our God is benevolent and righteous, God's tongue is sharp as a sword and it strikes down all that is unjust.

We know our God!


Muhammad was a warlord, just a flawed man who couldn't even read.

Islam only knows Muhammad.