UK Wants Unemployed Youth to Do Unpaid Work for the State. State Sponsored Slavery or.....?

originally posted by: paraphi
This discussion is just an anti-Tory rant. In an effort to break free from that and return to the OP.

A properly orchestrated community service scheme that affords young people a sense of purpose, as well as teaching them life skills that are valuable for their future, is a good idea. Young people sitting on their arses benefits no one.

I belong to a well-known environmental charity that relies heavily on volunteers, and in the summer large numbers of young people contribute their time for free - although they get fed, beds, tents etc., as appropriate. They gain a sense of camaraderie and community, as well as learning about the environment.

Just because it’s a Tory idea, people write it off without thinking it through. If this was the Greens coming up with this proposal, people would applaud, and Labour don’t care.

Before I get crucified for the above, I would add that in my view it should be paid service commensurate with the service being given and it must be truly “community” and provide value in some form.

Regards

But this is the point.... it should be voluntary or paid
People should not be forced into it.... there are sanctions if people don't and wont work and aren't interested in looking.
It's a slippery slope too - there are already unpaid workers in retail right now, working 30+ hours a week and not being paid, if they don't accept these placements and "work experience" they get their benefits stopped and sanctioned.... there's no guarantee of a job either.
These people are benefiting only the business who are essentially getting free labour... why pay someone to work when you can get "dole scum" to come and fill your vacancies and you pay them literally.... literally nothing.

Like I said, a Voluntary community scheme where people did communal work and helped neighbours and did conservation work or something could work, but you should not force or blackmail people into doing it.
If you want people to do a fair days work, pay them a fair days wage... it's stunningly simple concept.
We have a safety net in this country for a reason.... just because there are tiny percent abusing the system, and the Tories (sorry for bashing them but they deserve it) are making it their mission to turn the working class against each other... and the middle class too, doesn't mean that all of these work-shy-layabouts need to be out there sweeping streets etc, like they're criminals.

Much of the 'work' to be carried out will be duties previously performed by council employees who have been made redundant due to the austerity cuts imposed upon them by central government.

How anyone can fail to see the immorality in that is beyond me.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I think the Men would be better served joining the Military than to be cooking some meals for old people.... let the girls do that.

Do you not recall that on a recent visit to Helmand, Cameron told serving officers that by next year, women will be serving in front line, combat roles? Perhaps he meant they would be handing out sandwiches?

Fact is, every single one of the so called 'welfare reforms' are killing people and the only reason the govt are getting away with it is because of views such as yours.

a reply to: teapot


I was just about to reply to you and start ranting.... but yes, what an insane post(s) that was by truthis.
Men are men, women are women, war will make men of these boys.... blah blah...

a reply to: jude11

If they are going to paid a decent wage for the work then i have no problem with it. However I would think that if you worked out the wage it may be under the minimun wage..

purp

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

We have big issues right now with ISIS and other Militant Groups. I think the Men would be better served joining the Military

Thats the wrong way around. The reason ISIS exist is becuase men have joined the military. If Iraq had not fallen we would not be in this mess now..

purp..

a reply to: yorkshirelad
Exactly. I hear the same old schitt time and time again about how the workshy benefit from "My tax ££".

Here's a couple of figures for the terminally incensed.
For every £5000 you pay in income tax £47 goes on unemployment benefit. £900 goes on private sector pensions 65% of social security is spent on old age pensions ....Focus your rage on something you havn't heard on Jeremy Kyle or read in the Daily Mail like how Billionaires avoid tax left right and centre with our governments approval and the Bankers who busted us and we get to pay for their crimes and not one has ever been brought to account..

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: lordcomac

There's no logic to the answer, the government arent going to create these jobs, they are going to take them away from people who are already employed.

They already have.

Kent country council have already slashed thousands of jobs.

Falkirk council to terminate 7000 contracts

Better together..??

Royaly #ed together.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

We have big issues right now with ISIS and other Militant Groups. I think the Men would be better served joining the Military

Thats the wrong way around. The reason ISIS exist is becuase men have joined the military. If Iraq had not fallen we would not be in this mess now..

purp..

Here here..

originally posted by: paraphi
This discussion is just an anti-Tory rant. In an effort to break free from that and return to the OP.

A properly orchestrated community service scheme that affords young people a sense of purpose, as well as teaching them life skills that are valuable for their future, is a good idea. Young people sitting on their arses benefits no one.

I belong to a well-known environmental charity that relies heavily on volunteers, and in the summer large numbers of young people contribute their time for free - although they get fed, beds, tents etc., as appropriate. They gain a sense of camaraderie and community, as well as learning about the environment.

Just because it’s a Tory idea, people write it off without thinking it through. If this was the Greens coming up with this proposal, people would applaud, and Labour don’t care.

Before I get crucified for the above, I would add that in my view it should be paid service commensurate with the service being given and it must be truly “community” and provide value in some form.

Regards

If its proberly implemented sure.

But chances are local councils will abuse it.
And if it opens up to the private sector? Well not worth thinking about......


If this is to work it needs regulating, and there needs to be choices of jobs.

But knowing political incompetence i can see a mess.

a reply to: Freeborn

I'm so torn by what you say and the fact that the youth of the UK need to be forced to do things. Working in eduation I see it everyday. We reward 'bad' kids when they do a good thing ocasionally and ignore the 'normal' ones who do good everyday.
I'm going to have to agree with Dave on this one.
Force them to do it!!!

One thing I have to say is that people should not be fooled by thinking that this scheme/scam will only be for 18 to 21 year olds. That is only the thin edge of the wedge. After that comes in it will be quietly expanded to 25 year olds then 29 year olds then to 65 or older down the track.

originally posted by: supamoto
a reply to: Freeborn

I'm so torn by what you say and the fact that the youth of the UK need to be forced to do things. Working in eduation I see it everyday. We reward 'bad' kids when they do a good thing ocasionally and ignore the 'normal' ones who do good everyday.
I'm going to have to agree with Dave on this one.
Force them to do it!!!

Bring back the belt, not a future where your only Guarantee after you leave school is forced labour for free.

a reply to: supamoto

I'm so torn by what you say and the fact that the youth of the UK need to be forced to do things. Working in eduation I see it everyday. We reward 'bad' kids when they do a good thing ocasionally and ignore the 'normal' ones who do good everyday.
I'm going to have to agree with Dave on this one.
Force them to do it!!!

Much of what you say may be true.....but do you question why?

It is as a direct result of successive governments implementing bad policies and completely altering the face of British society.
It is the politicians and those allied to them - bankers / industrialists etc - who are screwing this country over and it is their failings that have caused this country great harm.
Yet still people fall for the nonsense MSM force feed them about the most needy and vulnerable in our society and seek to punish and censor them whilst the real criminals continue milking the system for an ever growing large slice of the pie.

The vast majority of people on benefits are in that position as a direct result of government incompetence and / or corporate and banker greed.

As for rewarding 'bad kids' at the expense of 'good' or 'normal' pupils - always been like that.
Doesn't make it right, but its hardly a new phenomenon.

And isn't this policy of 'enforced servitude' just another example of that - punishing the vast majority of genuine benefit recipients due to the very small minority of malingerers and scroungers?

a reply to: Soloprotocol

At least we agree on something.

Because it will be working for free doing 8 hour days.... that is definately 'slave' labour and nobody should be forced to do that type of work.

If it's for Charity, then fine but not jobs which ordinary people would get paid at least minimum wage.

a reply to: Freeborn

I know all you're saying is reasonable & true BUT if you worked with them & experienced their attiudes & views you might accept that force may be the only way forward.
I don't agree that they will be doing it for life ( like a kind of sentence ) but just long enough to change their attitudes to society.
It's disheartening for me to say this as I also see so much potential in them.

Maybe you guys could build camps for them to work in? Maybe get them a wicked smart uniform too, maybe a boiler suit kind of thing?

a reply to: supamoto

I know all you're saying is reasonable & true BUT if you worked with them & experienced their attiudes & views you might accept that force may be the only way forward.

I interact with young people almost every day of my life.
Yes, there has been a marked change in attitude of many of them - they show little regard or respect for anything.

But do you honestly believe that the only way to halt that is by forcing them to 'work' for their benefits instead of providing proper education free from PC interference or political meddling and social engineering?

How about redressing some of the negative education and social policies that have helped contribute to this change in attitude?
How about politicians implementing policies that will help see a return of manufacturing to this country and with it the relationship between apprentice / tradesman?
How about promoting traditional British communities and their values instead of undermining them at every opportunity?

Nearly every single policy implemented by this government and its predecessors have had a negative impact on the ordinary working people of this country.

Why is it a surprise to see so many of our youngsters having so little regard and respect for the society around them?

I don't agree that they will be doing it for life ( like a kind of sentence )......

First of all, do you honestly think it will stop there?
Secondly, what have they got to look forward to?

..... but just long enough to change their attitudes to society.

And perhaps 'society', or more accurately, those who control 'society', should also change their attitude and put a bit more emphasis on the future and well being of our youngsters and stop putting the interests and profits of an elite few before the genuine cares and concerns of the ordinary British people.

It's disheartening for me to say this as I also see so much potential in them.

And its that what we should be investing more resource in to rather than targeting the most needy and vulnerable in our society in such an uncaring and Victorian like manner.

originally posted by: grumpy64
One thing I have to say is that people should not be fooled by thinking that this scheme/scam will only be for 18 to 21 year olds. That is only the thin edge of the wedge. After that comes in it will be quietly expanded to 25 year olds then 29 year olds then to 65 or older down the track.

And why shouldn't people who get money pay them back through making life better for the comminity? I'M really not understanding the problem they have to spend 20 hrs community service and 10 hrs looking for a job. They receive money from the government and this is just lost labor if you allow them to sit at home. Think of all the good they could do for society. Businesses have nothing to do with it they need to hire people but organizations that rely on volunteers to help feed or clothes they benefit alot.

As for the argument there being forced well they can easily say no and not do it. Like anything in life people can choose the path best for them to resolve a situation. Luckily today they have options 100 years ago would have ended dead on a gutter and people would have stepped over them.To argue this is slavery is silly.

a reply to: Freeborn
Again all you've said is very true.
But we have to work with what they give us now/today.
Those that try can & do succeed, they have a future they created with their comitment for themselves.
There is opportunity out there, just don't expect it to be handed to you on a plate.
Go look and work for it.
Until the revolution changes thing, TPTB will keep control.