Forced Vaccinations: What Could Possibly go Wrong?

a reply to: Witness2008

Thanks for the link

a reply to: FurvusRexCaeli

Really? Really???

It's times like these when I really really hope that anyone obfuscating the truth like this is a disinfo agent because it scares me even more to think people smart enough to read these studies and reports could be so oblivious to the facts.

I cannot get your post to "quote," but I'll respond to a couple of your very weak points.

Regarding measles virus RNA in urine... As the cited study determined, patients are in fact contagious for measles after vaccination. For years, we were told otherwise. They were wrong, we were misinformed. And I did have two children with measles, which was well-documented by the county, who were having fits over it, badgering me and harrassing me because they were trying to find out the source of their infection, refusing to believe it came from the vaccine.

At one time, parents were assured that one measles vaccine would guarantee immunity for life. They were wrong, we were misinformed.

If you cannot see that doctors and other medical "experts" can be wrong, and are often wrong, and that this combination of ignorance and arrogance can be and is dangerous for the rest of us, then I don't know what to say... except that I will defend your natural and inalienable right to make your own choices no matter how wrong I think you are, even knowing that you will not give me the same respect, and will in fact subject me and mine to all manner of horrors at the hands of others for your own perceived benefit.

As far as the unsealed docs, so you don't know and don't care what information is being withheld from us -- no matter how dangerous... okay. Again, if you want to put your unconditional faith in self-proclaimed experts, based on your "beliefs" rather than the facts, I will defend your right to do so, even knowing that you will not do the same for me.

Ok, so once again we are in the same topic, and once again as I said in previous post I'm not all against vaccination, just the amount and the lack of transparency... Speaking with a friend, he came up with the following analogy:

Imagine that tomorrow we all wake up, and McDonalds has received a government contract to include in all their meals chemicals that will eradicate some of the disease we currently have, They ask that we need to feed our kids 2 times a week with McDonalds so we keep the herd immune. Additionally to keep the cost of the burgers low and the supply constant, the government has given McDonalds complete immunity in case of a lawsuit, where Mcdonalds can not be held liable in the event of death, any adverse effect, or side effect of the burgers.

Will you still march down o your local McDonalds without hesitation to give your kid a burger twice a week? or will you at least question the method?

Why that analogy? because in 1986 congress passed The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, and it does exactly that, it protects pharma from wrong doing.

Now, as a father I might be making a mistake in only vaccinating my child with 8 out of the 30 the child must have by the age of 6, but at least I did some research and I'm basing that decision on the information I gather and some critical thinking.

The next questions is... How good of a parent are you, that put chemicals in your kids body, without even doing the research, without spending 2 hours of your busy life to find out some Cons and Pros?

Again that's not saying that pro-vax have not done the research, if you have done it and feel compelled to do it, then you research led you to a different path that mine did, nothing wrong with that, but to simply implied that everyone should be vaccinated without even doing your due diligence is in my opinion more dangerous that the vaccines itself.

a reply to: yuniorsan

Excellent analogy.

And thanks for reaffirming that opposing FORCED vaccination does not equal "anti-vax." It's illustrative of the forced-vax mindset that they cannot (or will not) see the middle ground, much less the inherent dangers in forcing ANYTHING on ANYONE.

It's all or nothing for some folks. No matter who gets hurt in the process.

a reply to: yuniorsan

Well looky here. Vaccinations with a happy meal. Just WOW

“The city of Amarillo’s Department of Public Health and the Caring for Children Foundation of Texas will offer free vaccinations for children from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Saturday at McDonald’s restaurant, 1815 S. Grand St.

naturalsociety.com...

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone sometimes.

originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli

post a list of links and pretend they support my position without actually discussing their contents.

It just occurred to me that there is a huge -- and important -- disconnect here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your premise is that I am anti-vaxxer -- despite my declaration to the contrary in my OP. To define terms, your premise is that I oppose any and all vaccinations for any and all reasons; and that the links I posted are intended to somehow stop all vaccinations, either by convincing others not to get vaccinated, or ???

Wrong. Very Very wrong.

The links I posted were intended to do exactly what my post title says: to show what could go wrong. Specifically:

Adverse Reactions
Human error (including incompetence)
Crony Capitalism
Greed and Avarice
Lies (including lies of omission)
Just plain evil

And I provided many and varied examples of same, both current and historically. I provided links to each article. I read each and every article/study/whatever that I linked to. I cannot read them for other people. I did provide quotes for some, but not all. I also did make a few comments (including, as you did note, comments encouraging quality vaccinations). I responded to every reply I received about whatever that poster wanted to address. Again and again, I made it clear that I am against FORCED vaccination, not vaccinations in and of themselves. I did what I intended to do.

I am also very much against secret courts and court orders. Corporate immunity from liability at the expense of the people -- both financial and our fundamental health and well-being. Invasive violation of my person. Crony capitalism that creates a system of profits before people under color of law. The revolving door between Big Pharma/FDA/Congress. And all sins against nature, natural law and my natural and Constitutional rights.

This is about much more than to vax or not to vax.

Raw Data ~ Measles

"In the last ten years there have been 1,564 cases of the Measles in the USA and ZERO deaths.

There have been 83 deaths reported deaths from measles vaccines"

autismrawdata.net...

a reply to: Witness2008

Damn, he was just joking, I guess they are thinking of everything... Wow just Wow.

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few.

Spock

Don't be a selfish douchbag.

Prezbo369

a reply to: Prezbo369

Spock is not a real person unless you are referring to the actor who plays that part
As such it is one persons opinion

The perceived needs you speak of have been counter covered by the many posts of those who have genuine concerns regarding the safety of vaccines ...

It is fine by me if you think unproven vaccines are the best way to go ... but many disagree with you
But this thread is about the concerns of what can and does go wrong

However how would you feel if you were forced to do things which you believed carried the risk of harming your children

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Prezbo369

Spock is not a real person unless you are referring to the actor who plays that part
As such it is one persons opinion

Irrelevant, the quote stands on its own two feet. You really think that's just opinion? did you read the second quote?

The perceived needs you speak of have been counter covered by the many posts of those who have genuine concerns regarding the safety of vaccines ...

It is fine by me if you think unproven vaccines are the best way to go ... but many disagree with you
But this thread is about the concerns of what can and does go wrong

However how would you feel if you were forced to do things which you believed carried the risk of harming your children

Every single medical treatment ever devised has had side effects, every time you go under the knife, no matter how small the procedure, there's a chance you will die. Every time I send my child to school there are potentially lethal dangers on his way there. But I still send him to school as the potential benefits outweigh the potential dangers.

Same with vaccines, but yeah get all hysterical and irrational over something you don't really understand....

a reply to: Prezbo369

Every single medical treatment ever devised has had side effects, every time you go under the knife, no matter how small the procedure, there's a chance you will die. Every time I send my child to school there are potentially lethal dangers on his way there. But I still send him to school as the potential benefits outweigh the potential dangers.

Same with vaccines, but yeah get all hysterical and irrational over something you don't really understand....

Thank you for your reply

By the way I am not being hysterical but no matter ... you are entitled to your own opinions

May I ask you a civil question ...
Are you advocating Mandatory Vaccination

originally posted by: artistpoet
Thank you for your reply

By the way I am not being hysterical but no matter ... you are entitled to your own opinions

May I ask you a civil question ...
Are you advocating Mandatory Vaccination

Compulsory vaccination greatly reduces infection rates for associated diseases, and has done for the past 100+ years.

Yet folk such as yourself think you know better than the overwhelming scientific consensus...

a reply to: Prezbo369

Thanks for your reply

Though what you said has been answered by myself and others in previous posts

Yet folk such as yourself think you know better than the overwhelming scientific consensus...

You seem to be making this personal

Regarding scientific research ... You will find that those opposed to Mandatory Vaccination have also linked to scientific studies that would contradict your statement/
It is for others to do their own research so as to make a more informed decision ... Rather than blindly follow the governments agenda

However let us not waste each others time as it is obvious that you and I are never going to agree or sway each others opinions

a reply to: artistpoet

Which statement?

That compulsory vaccination greatly reduces infection rates for associated diseases, and has done for the past 100+ years

or the fact that the scientific community if overwhelming in support of vaccinations?

Merely a few laymen performing armchair 'research' who don't really know how to digest scientific material, thinking they know better......

a reply to: Prezbo369

Is that the same scientific consensus that though that Lobotomy was the way to go???

or the scientific consensus regarding the safe use of Vioxx???

originally posted by: yuniorsan
a reply to: Prezbo369

Is that the same scientific consensus that though that Lobotomy was the way to go???

or the scientific consensus regarding the safe use of Vioxx???

Ah the 'doctor'.....comparing a single drug to over 100 years of protection from multiple diseases and countless lives saved via the use of vaccinations.

How many lives has tiger Penis soup saved?

a reply to: Prezbo369

I would love to have that count, but since oriental medicine has been used for over 2,000 years, must of it has been lost to history (don't come back and tell me that tiger penis soup, does not save lives... read what is supposed to do and tell me there are no people that will commit suicide by the condition tiger soup helps with.

Does it works? I haven't try it myself nor I offered to my patients with those conditions, but if you are really interested in knowing if it works (maybe you need it) I'm sure I can help you try it out. Again your fixation with Tiger Penis soup is worrisome, I'm sure your local acupuncturist cam help you with any of the conditions the tiger soup will be beneficial for.

Now enough of ancient medicine. Again, you didn't answer my question, is that scientific consensus the same that though lobotomy was fine???

ohh, and the comment regarding a single drug, that shows me how much research you have done regarding this issue, I'll give you a list of just a few drugs and you let me know if you will blindly trust anything pharma gives you:

Isotretinoin: 7,000 lawsuits --- $30 million paid in damages (27 years on market)
Cerivastatin: 52 deaths (3 years on market)
Propoxyphene: 2,110 Deaths (55 years on market) --- Just in case you want to say that vaccines has been around for over 50 years and no side effects have been showed.
Cisapride: 70 deaths (7 years on market)
pentylenetetrazol: 42% of users with spine fractures (48 years on market)
Troglitazone: 63 deaths (3 years on market)
Tienilin Acid: 36 deaths (3 years on market)
Vioxx: 27,785 heart attacks & sudden cardiac deaths. (5 years on market)

and I got tired of researching, If you want and only want you can research many, many more... but again, you are just going to say vaccines are good they have saved lives, etc...

Again and I have always stated, I'm not against vaccinations, my child has 6 of the almost 20 vaccines you are required to put in their system (Hint: MMR is not one of 6) what I'm against is the lack of transparency and the law favoring pharma so they can do what they want with our kids.

Does that makes sense?

Here additional food for thought...

based on the CDC website for cases in 2014 --- 1/10 vaccinated kids got the Measles (Not a very good record I might say, I would have assumed it should be much lower, maybe 1/100 or something similar by the way is been pushed)

www.cdc.gov...

Based on the following report, there has been no deaths from measles since 2003 and based on the studies there have been around 160 cases of measles reported every year (Let's not count the illegals that are afraid of going to the hospital just because the kid has a fever) that's closed to 2,000 cases without a death.

www.foxnews.com...

and now lets see what are the side effects of MMR vaccine based on the CDC:
www.cdc.gov...

Lets see the symptoms of Measles based on the CDC.
www.cdc.gov...

ok, so right out of the gate, the mild side effects of the vaccines are pretty much the same as the regular symptoms.

So lets weight the more concerned issues (Complications Vs. Moderate and Severe side effects)
www.cdc.gov...

1- hearing: Complications in measles at worse will give you a hearing loss. - as a vaccine side effect will give you deafness (if you don't know the difference then you are a step behind)
2- and here comes the big one --- Death: as per the CDC for every 1,000 kids 1 or 2 will die... Well it must not be in the US because out of 2,000 in the last 10 years no one has died - the must common cause of death is complication due to pneumonia.

Lets look at the other side effects from the vaccine that have the possibility of killing you as well if complications arise:
Seizure - bleeding disorder - Serious Allergic Reactions - Coma - Permanent Brain Damage.

So let me do the math:
I vaccinate my child and she will not get:
high fever, cough, runny nose, and red, watery eyes or at worse hearing loss and maybe death because of pneumonia.

But side effects might be:
Seizure - bleeding disorder - Serious Allergic Reactions - Coma - Permanent Brain Damage.

as you can see for me between Measles and Vaccines. measles won.

note: that would have change if I live in rural america or the closest hospital is over 2 hours away.

originally posted by: yuniorsan
a reply to: Prezbo369
I would love to have that count, but since oriental medicine has been used for over 2,000 years, must of it has been lost to history.

Are you saying that oriental medicine hasn't been keeping records for as long as western medicine has? despite oriental medicine being around for over 2000 years?!? I wonder why....

(don't come back and tell me that tiger penis soup, does not save lives... read what is supposed to do and tell me there are no people that will commit suicide by the condition tiger soup helps with.
Does it works? I haven't try it myself nor I offered to my patients with those conditions, but if you are really interested in knowing if it works (maybe you need it) I'm sure I can help you try it out. Again your fixation with Tiger Penis soup is worrisome, I'm sure your local acupuncturist cam help you with any of the conditions the tiger soup will be beneficial for.

How can you call yourself a 'doctor of oriental medicine' if you've never prescribed tiger penis soup to anyone?.....

Now enough of ancient medicine.

Lol is that what you say to your customers/marks?

Again, you didn't answer my question, is that scientific consensus the same that though lobotomy was fine???

Oh you respond to only half of my post, and expect me to respond to the entirety of yours?.......

Lobotomy was always controversial and didn't ever have a scientific consensus.

ohh, and the comment regarding a single drug, that shows me how much research you have done regarding this issue, I'll give you a list of just a few drugs and you let me know if you will blindly trust anything pharma gives you:

and I got tired of researching, If you want and only want you can research many, many more... but again, you are just going to say vaccines are good they have saved lives, etc...

Lol 'research' isn't just copy pasting a list of drugs from the anti-western medicine/anti pharma booklet you have at home...you don't know the meaning of the word.

Again and I have always stated, I'm not against vaccinations, my child has 6 of the almost 20 vaccines you are required to put in their system (Hint: MMR is not one of 6) what I'm against is the lack of transparency and the law favoring pharma so they can do what they want with our kids.

You're not even honest enough to admit your position on vaccines....