Jesus on the cross is a graven image and idolatry

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

First your post is a perfect example of confirmation bias. I hope by the end of this comment you see that.

And trust me, I have even discussed Hosea with Jesus himself, and I certainly have read it, studied it even.

Discussed Hosea with Jesus, himself? Please tell me that was a joke...

T
The prostitute Hosea buys in chapter 3 is another woman. I think the two women originally were to represent the two kingdoms, Judah and Israel, however the text is rather ambiguous and though this is a prophecy of Israel vs. Judah it's not quite clear if the two prostitutes are the two kingdoms, or merely Israel in two stages.

The prostitute in Hosea 3 is Gomer. Not sure what you meant by a prophecy of Israeal vs Judah, but Hosea's life is used as a prophetic representation of the relationship between God and Israel.

So lets begin first by showing Gomer is the woman spoken of in Hosea 3:
In Hosea 1, Hosea and Gomer are married and have three children. In Hosea 2 God is talking, and what he is talking about is typified by Hosea and Gomer. Hosea 2:2-13we learn that Hosea separates from the previous marriage because his wife became an adulterer. (represents separation of God and Israel because they were worshipping idols); Hosea 2:14-15 we learn that God will reconcile with Israel. Moving into Hosea 3 :

And the Lord said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by another man and is adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love cakes of raisins.”

He is told to go again to love an adulteress who is loved by another man. Hosea Goes and buys her back and then says:

3 And I said to her, “You must dwell as mine for many days. You shall not play the whore, or belong to another man; so will I also be to you.” 4 For the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or pillar, without ephod or household gods. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the Lord and to his goodness in the latter days.

Now if you interpret the woman in this passage to be anyone other Gomer the words again and adulteress don't make much sense. Also read the last three vereses of Hosea 2 again and you'll see that when God returns in the passages above he returns back to what was separated. The same goes for the typification on Hosea and Gomer. Hosea returns to Gomer or the whole living typification falls apart.

OK, prostitution is a sin you say. Can you back that up with scripture, please.

Matthew 19:4-5; quoting from Genesis 1:27, 2:24 cross referenced with 1 Corinthians 6:16-18
Hebrews 13:4

Refer to the Law of Moses.

This is called a false dilemma. There is no reason that I should only have to refer to the law of moses. I can give you one of the ten commandments. Thou shal not commit adultery. Or the sermon on the mount "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

And give us a short analysis into the legal ethics and moral implications of said prostitution, in relation to the Bible.

This conversation began because you said "You base your beliefs on the Bible, a book riddled with inconsistencies and ordering and condoning wickedness including what we today would call crimes against humanity and war crimes, "

None of what we are talking about is either an inconsistency or the condoning of wickedness....if this is really something that keeps you from Christ that is sad.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

At the end of seventy years, the LORD will visit Tyre, and she will return to her wages and will prostitute herself with all the kingdoms of the world on the face of the earth. Her merchandise and her wages will be holy to the LORD. It will not be stored or hoarded, but her merchandise will supply abundant food and fine clothing for those who dwell before the LORD. [ESV] Isaiah 23:17-18

You might notice that Tyre is being personified. Prostitute herself in verse 17 is an analogy meant to portray the idea of lots of trade. This is easily inferred from context...

With these examples (Hosea 1 and Isaiah 23) of how God promotes and rewards prostitution, and looking back at how you consider prostitution to be a sin: Help me here, can't you see you are calling God is a sinner here?

How do either of these passages promote or reward prostitution?

a reply to: NavyDoc

but I was taught that it was a reminder of what Jesus went through because he loved us so much. That is the intent.

I think you were also misled into believing you were born into sin through adam? The intent being that through said vicarious atonement your non existent (other than in the churchs eye) sins would be washed away.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Confirmation bias hehe, are you're a psychologist too now? And yes, I have met Jesus in a few dreams, last time he just showed me a staircase and said a few words. He was the one who brought up this thing in the first place, and yes, he can't stand religious bias, it makes his work nearly impossible he claims. But you don't believe me, so why would I care to explain. Anyway.

You still neglect to answer my initial questions. And you don't understand that you make God a sinner by saying prostitution is a sin. God orders prostitution, he promotes it, he even earns from it, but then again, turn the page, and he prohibits it, scorns it and destroys whores utterly just for being what they are, which is sort of where this is heading.

Since you're such a great psychologist, what do you make of that? I'd say God would be in denial, and that you as well as most other Christians have spotted this trait with God, so you copy it and make it your own, it's fun when left is the right direction, you read one thing, proclaim something else, and live it out in the most absurd ways. Trust me on this, stick to feeding the hungry and warm up the frozen. This game here, you wouldn't understand it in a million years. Seeing there is no hope of getting any sense from you in these matters, consider my interest gone.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
How do either of these passages [U: Hosea 1 + Isaiah 23] promote or reward prostitution?

There you go. Discussing the Bible with Christians is like discussing pears with acidic hippies.

God: «Buy yourself a whore!»
Utnapisjtim: «Isn't that promoting prostitution?»
ServantOfTheLamb: «No, you're biased, God is actually talking about the pear-shaped weather here....»

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: NavyDoc

but I was taught that it was a reminder of what Jesus went through because he loved us so much. That is the intent.

I think you were also misled into believing you were born into sin through adam? The intent being that through said vicarious atonement your non existent (other than in the churchs eye) sins would be washed away.

That's their take on baptism--not any more or less valid than yours--given that none of this is real.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

And yes, I have met Jesus in a few dreams, last time he just showed me a staircase and said a few words. He was the one who brought up this thing in the first place, and yes, he can't stand religious bias, it makes his work nearly impossible he claims

You might need a psychologist.

You still neglect to answer my initial questions. And you don't understand that you make God a sinner by saying prostitution is a sin. God orders prostitution, he promotes it, he even earns from it, but then again, turn the page, and he prohibits it, scorns it and destroys whores utterly just for being what they are, which is sort of where this is heading.

You didn't ask a real question. Your question was what about God and his sluts.....thats not a question.....thats you being silly. Never called God a sinner and he never promotes prostitution.

I like how you back up you ideas with logical inferences. Really makes you seem lik eoyu know what your talking about......

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
You completely ignorned everything I said which shows that your here just to argue, rather than engage in a conversation about truth.

God: «Buy yourself a whore!» Utnapisjtim: «Isn't that promoting prostitution?» ServantOfTheLamb: «No, you're biased, God is actually talking about the pear-shaped weather here....»

God never says that.....this is my point confirmation bias...you don't want to accept God, so you see "buy yourself a whore..." rather than what the actual text says which is take yourself a WIFE of whoredome. This is not prostitution this is marriage. Something that I don't think either of us consider immoral.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb

God: «Buy yourself a whore!»

God never says that.....

The Hebrew goes לך קח־לך אשת זנונים -- that's «Go take yourself a hooker wife»

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

My point exactly. Its marriage noob.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

No, prostitution, harlotry, whorery, and there are two: «Yet again, go buy another 'wife of harlotry'» Hosea 3, which I would like you to take me through the Hebrew of and explain how on earth this could be the same woman as in the first head, and how either of them are not whores, if you manage that there will be a choir of dead popes praising you. Hosea 1 and 2 orders Hosea to buy two whores.

As for noob, the only sensible approach to this whole thing, and which is what you refer to as my hehe confirmation bias, is along the lines of: The ways of God are unsearchable and to echo brother Bacon:

«Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?» [KJV] Lamentations 3:38

If I were the devil, you'd be eating bricks by now. If you ever meet him (I've met him once or twice, I have a date in a few years with him for the usual half-way deathmatch of chess, and I'm terrible at chess), remember you had this conversation, and remember those old words of Solomon above. You might need them one day.


ETA:
Devil: “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”
Jesus: “Eh, a perfect example of confirmation bias! Arbitrary conjecture! I already OWN the world duh! No0b!”

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

No, prostitution, harlotry, whorery, and there are two: «Yet again, go buy another 'wife of harlotry'» Hosea 3,

Confirmation bias again.....it doesn't say go buy another wife of harlotry.... I explained this in detail going through all three books. You either can't read english or you just dont want to accept the facts. It says go again love a woman beloved of another, yet an adultress(meaning she committed sexual actions outside of marriage)...you are lost no helping your kind.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

You know, they do say you can fly you know?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Utapisjtim;You know, they do say you can fly you know?

I have seen it in fact, what I took to be humans riding between the clouds *faces looking out of what seemed to be vent gills* sitting within a noisy fixed winged featherless Birdlike creature made of a shiny substance. A Coca-Cola bottle fell from one; upon our humble village, and we worshiped it as a symbol sent from God; until someone thought it was a good idea to put a message in it stopper it with cork and threw it into the tide. I think the message read in this way: 'For any Modern day wannabe Cortez's If you find this do not bother with our salvation as we already recognize a higher being (no gold here)'.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

“Go again, love a woman who is loved by another man and is an adulteress...”

I guess this is his loving wife again huh? Amazing. Anyway, you failed, you didn't even cross the start line. And you don't understand why.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

No, prostitution, harlotry, whorery, and there are two: «Yet again, go buy another 'wife of harlotry'» Hosea 3,

Confirmation bias again.....it doesn't say go buy another wife of harlotry.... I explained this in detail going through all three books. You either can't read english or you just dont want to accept the facts. It says go again love a woman beloved of another, yet an adultress(meaning she committed sexual actions outside of marriage)...you are lost no helping your kind.

Oh dear. Your apologetic misconceptions blind you. You don't see the forest for the trees. God tells Hosea to buy a whore, then another, back then getting laid meant getting married, and stuff like prostitution and slavery was legal and fully accepted. Damn. What is it with Christians and not being able to handle more than one word, clause or sentence at the time??

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

“Go again, love a woman who is loved by another man and is an adulteress...” I guess this is his loving wife again huh? Amazing. Anyway, you failed, you didn't even cross the start line. And you don't understand why.

Failed? You haven't explained anything. you've merely posted Scripture and then said it means things it doesn't mean...it makes you look crazy man....like you really might need some help.

Yes the woman spoken of in that line is Gomer. Again Hosea's life is a typification of the relationship between God and the whole of Israel(Both houses). Israel was worshipping Idols. God and Israel divorce. Hosea and Gomer Divorce. God redeems Israel and they are together again. Hosea redeems Gomer and they are together again. This is clear if you read the first three chapters in entirety. How do you interpret Hosea 2? Because its obviously God using Gomer and Hosea's life as a metaphor. It is clear because he uses their three kids names at the end....

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

God tells Hosea to buy a whore, then another, back then getting laid meant getting married, and stuff like prostitution and slavery was legal and fully accepted.

Wrong. Look at what your doing guy. I am reading the words for what they mean, and your saying words like BUY which is not found in the passage. He never says buy another he say Go again to an adultress. An adultress is a person who comitted sexual actions outside of marriage.

Back then sex did not mean marriage.....you are just being ridiculous man. Your irrational. Yes slavery was accepted as a form of debt payment.

What is it with Christians and not being able to handle more than one word, clause or sentence at the time?

I went through three chapters you have just posted one verse over and over and said it means what you say it means. Your being willingly ignorant out of pride.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: drevill

The guy who calls himself veteranhumanbeing is anything but human. He is a notorious eternally-drunk-ranting stalker troll. Nothing but slime and mucus in his wakes I'm afraid. A most detestable thing. Haters will hate and don't feed the trolls.

It is good to know you recognized a 'common ground' (level playing field) AT LAST.

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Satan from the Bible, I would say I'm conservative none denomination. I realise that satans name has probably changed through the languages. He is called a beast in the field in Genesis 3 and the devil.

Regards.

I suppose I am different; I refuse to give any hand clap, salute, (a recognizing of) to this entity AT ALL in so doing does not exist or affect my life.