Jesus on the cross is a graven image and idolatry

a reply to: HAZE3

I am christian, and no where in my church or any of its thousands of chapels will you find a cross. My religion is no spawn off the catholic church, or any other denomination either. It is a full restoration of the originial church of Jesus Christ, the same organization he set up himself.

I could tell as soon as you said your church was a full restoration of the original church that you were LDS. Brother I am not trying to upset you, but Joseph Smith was a fraud. I can show it to you if your willing to have an honest conversation. I will do the same for you though. I will listen respectfully and if what you say is true I will accept it.

We do not believe that the personage of God is in the form of the trinity.

Are you polytheistic? Was Jesus of Nazareth the creator of all things?

Grace saves us but our works determine when we accept that grace.

2 nephi 25:23
"..... for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."

The LDS teach a works based doctrine. Grace makes up for what you couldn't do yourself.

Oh i have so many questions for you, but I dont want to overwhelm you.

originally posted by: superluminal11
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The crucifix is a bridge to God. One time and one time only. Jesus is no longer there but right here right now.

Done deal....you cannot add nor take away from its pure power nor can you sin your way out once you claim it and get sealed. Trust me...you know when the Holy Spirit seals you. You finally understand what the word QUIET(peace) is as if being in a vacuum is like. You finally see why people do the things they do and have empathy and compassion for them, and you get attacked by the majority a whole bunch even the ones that know the Bible backwards and forward and appear to be of great stature and sound mind.

You think a Holy Spirit exists, that is funny in of itself.

Seals you from what ?? the Dark Spirit?? Who created this that needs to be SEALED from.

I have easily UNSEALED every single one of my friends and family from the Blinders put over the eyes of the Believers.

So much so that they can now see and think for themselves, and realize that the Church is a nice place to go most of the time, but a place that cannot dictate any longer, and a place that has limited time remaining.

Once you realize the entire premise was a setup, to cause you to choose ways of life, it becomes very clear, it is just another choice mixed with some magic, of ALL colors, designed to look and FEEL different than the rest.

In the end it offers NOTHING as to the meaning of ANYTHING.

And it certainly offers no TRUTH, since you know actually nothing the farther you delve into it.

My favorite part of what preachers all love to say,

" The more of God I know and receive, the more I realize I know NOTHING."

They are so completely and entirely in love with the fact that the deeper they dig the farther they get from any clarity, and yet the FEEL that the opposite effect is happening. It is as bad as searching for BLISS in meditation, a FALSE POSITIVE.

And once removing that SEAL and UNSEALING the LIES, one can see that TRUTH is not to be found anywhere near Christianity.

But you can sure trick yourself into FEELING GREAT ABOUT IT THOUGH!!!

This happens in ANY religious practice, the NEW AGE RELIGIONS, of all which offer different paths to NOWHERE.

Enjoy knowing nothing, at least you can convince yourself you are "happy with that".

a reply to: FlyersFan

Thank you. I thought no one was going to catch this and make the correction.

If we were to follow the versus the OP states, we would not be able to hang photographs of our beloved family members on the wall or take photographs while on vacation, etc....

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Who says pictures of family members are a representation of God? Not me or anyone else. He says don't set up any graven images in his likeness. Pictures of living family members are not considered to be God. There's a huge difference.

Why not put up a picture of (for example) your son who was maiuled by a bear? Mutilated body and all? I mean, that's basically what Christians do, they celebrate a son being tortured to death.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Who says pictures of family members are a representation of God? Not me or anyone else. He says don't set up any graven images in his likeness.

Genesis 1:26-27

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Hello
My apologies. I have an illness and at times My head goes to pot and doesn't work well. Would you mind asking me what you are asking in moron speak. Today is not a good day but I don't want to not reply

cheers.

No problem. The question was do you think Satan is Player, and if so what belief system are you deriving it from (Catholic Ideology)?

Idolatry and a graven image is of anyone not just Jesus when Jesus warns about that...what the Nazis did with Hitler.Many others dictators through out history.Some people are doing this with Obama believe or not.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Idolatry and a graven image is of anyone not just Jesus when Jesus warns about that...what the Nazis did with Hitler.Many others dictators through out history.Some people are doing this with Obama believe or not.

Hitler went into houses of worship and replaced all of the images of Jesus with his own; so yes the people were 'subtly'?! guided to worship the Furor instead of Jesus.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Who says pictures of family members are a representation of God? Not me or anyone else. He says don't set up any graven images in his likeness. Pictures of living family members are not considered to be God. There's a huge difference.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
.............................................
Jesus is a symbol for what WE are, the image of God. You see an image of light as you read this, that image is what the bible refers to as "Jesus". It is the "head" of your body, it is what sees and controls the body or "church".

We who are many are ONE. That ONE is the ONE true God, the light of life, consciousness/awareness.

Thanks for reading.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Don't to be too kind, when it comes to people attacking my faith I've about heard it all. I don't claim to know everything, but there isn't anything you can ask that wouldnt stray me. False prophets bring forth bad fruit, and there is nothing of this world which is as pure as the blessings the Church of Jesus Christ has bestowed upon me. Tell me is it possible that the physically immortal and perfect God the Father was crucified on a cross? How does a fair god punish those who live and die without ever learning of Christ? Why aren't there apostles today, even when the apostles were ordaining other apostles after Christ had ascended to heaven? Christ never said to stop these ordinations, but they stopped, who decided that? You may have many questions but you don't have any answers. You pride yourself in your wisdom, just like the Pharisees of the new testament. But it means nothing, because that only power that truly overwhelms is the Spirit of God. Its the only way truth is learned, and not by evidence. Christ teaches this. You are no servant of the lamb, and the purpose you serve is that of Lucifer. Take no offense to this, my dear brother, you are a fraud.

a reply to: HAZE3

Tell me is it possible that the physically immortal and perfect God the Father was crucified on a cross?

Well of course if wants to.

Why aren't there apostles today, even when the apostles were ordaining other apostles after Christ had ascended to heaven?

I don't think that there is any deputing that there are Apostles. The question is if new Apostles have the authority to speak Scripture. The primary role of apostles outside the 12 was to church plant. They were not to add to scripture.

a reply to: Rex282

The image we see and pictures that are inside the image are not the same thing. One gives rise to the other.

Worshipping an image other than the one you see right now is idolatry. The body (what is captured in a photo) is not the image, it's what the image reveals. I do not look at a picture of a family member and think of that picture as the image of God. The image of God is what reveals the picture.

When Christians see a picture of Jesus they think "that is God" all while ignoring the image that reveals that picture of Jesus.

a reply to: HAZE3

Don't to be too kind, when it comes to people attacking my faith I've about heard it all.

I am not attacking anything, please don't think of this conversation that way. I truly am just searching for the best understanding of Truth.

Tell me is it possible that the physically immortal and perfect God the Father was crucified on a cross?

I will answer your question below, but I want to start by asking you one of my own. Did God the Father used to be a man like you and I?

As far as I am aware Scripture teaches that the Father is only spirit.

John 4
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

Numbers 23
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


If God is spirit he does not have flesh and bones see below:

Luke 24
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

How does a fair god punish those who live and die without ever learning of Christ

Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

God doesn't expect someone to respond to something they've never heard, but we are accountable for what we have heard. Romans 5:13 says "13For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

They are held accountable for believing in a Creator and they are held accountable for knowing they are not perfectly moral creatures.

Why aren't there apostles today, even when the apostles were ordaining other apostles after Christ had ascended to heaven?

The apostles were people ordained by Jesus, and considering he isn't physically on earth to ordain people anymore I would say that is why there aren't apostles. Now if you are asking why there aren't any prophets today read Hebrews:

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


In these LAST DAYS we are spoken unto by Christ no longer prophets.

You pride yourself in your wisdom, just like the Pharisees of the new testament.

I would respectfully disagree, and ask if it is fair for me to say you pride yourself on works?

From your first post:
"I have served a mission, and I have been married in the temple."

You pointed these things out because in the LDS church these are two things that must be done in order to complete the process of exaltation and reach the Celestial Kingdom.

But it means nothing, because that only power that truly overwhelms is the Spirit of God. Its the only way truth is learned, and not by evidence. Christ teaches this

Don't just say Christ teaches something. It shows me nothing. Where does he teach that? I know John 15:26 teaches that the holy spirit will bear witness of Christ and that Christ is the one who sends the spirit.

According to Acts 17:11, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so," we are to search Scripture to determine truth.

2 timothy 3:16 has a very similar message, "16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

How does the Spirit express what is true to you?

Speaking of false prophets lets see how God says we are to test them Deut 18:
21 "And you may say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 "When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."

"President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189).

Jesus didn't return within 56 years when 1891 arrived.

"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house . . . 31 Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed." (Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31.)

The LDS were driven out of Missouri in 1833, and it clearly states that the generation alive there was the one that would see the temple built but it never happened.

"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; 2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3).

All nations were obviously not involved in the american civil war so yet another failed one for ole smith.

You are no servant of the lamb, and the purpose you serve is that of Lucifer. Take no offense to this, my dear brother, you are a fraud.

I'll let God judge whether my purpose is one of Lucifers or not.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Satan from the Bible, I would say I'm conservative none denomination. I realise that satans name has probably changed through the languages. He is called a beast in the field in Genesis 3 and the devil.

Regards.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Hello

I have had the lds come to my house. First off, on a secular level, very nice people.

This was way back when I first became a Christian. They told me the same about worshipping God and Jesus but
They didn,t go on to tell me about there other beliefs and was asked to pray about the Book of Mormon.

On the uk website the Book of Mormon is describe as the keystone of their lds faith. They completely mislead people by using selective phrasing about Jesus. They believe a different gospel to mainstream Christianity.

I don't care what people believe, they have the right to do this. However I take issue with the way they mislead people and and not forthright from the beginning. Even the website is misrepresents their beliefs. if this was truth, why would they need to do this?


Cheers anyhow

a reply to: drevill

This was way back when I first became a Christian. They told me the same about worshipping God and Jesus but They didn,t go on to tell me about there other beliefs and was asked to pray about the Book of Mormon. On the uk website the Book of Mormon is describe as the keystone of their lds faith. They completely mislead people by using selective phrasing about Jesus. They believe a different gospel to mainstream Christianity.

Yea. I am pretty familiar with their doctrine, but I don't like grouping the members together. Maybe he will have some thoughts we have never heard before. I find that unlikely because LDS members normally stick the same answers for most of these questions which makes finding answers for them all the easier.

I don't care what people believe, they have the right to do this. However I take issue with the way they mislead people and and not forthright from the beginning. Even the website is misrepresents their beliefs. if this was truth, why would they need to do this?

I dont think most members mean to be misleading. They come up using terminology that mainstream Christians use, but in their minds the words are not defined the same. So it really comes down to a misinterpretation between the two parties. If you are in conversation with them and see this occurring its a good point to stop and talk about what certain terms mean and why they mean what they mean.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Thanks for the advice.

On an individual basis you could be correct. However as an organisation, I believe that they know what they are doing. I pray that the Lord opens their eyes too.

Cheers

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He says don't set up any graven images in his likeness.

He says don't set up any graven images to be worshipped. And, as I showed previously, God Himself requested images to be made. (like the angels on the wisdom seat of the ark of the covenant).

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He says don't set up any graven images in his likeness.

He says don't set up any graven images to be worshipped. And, as I showed previously, God Himself requested images to be made. (like the angels on the wisdom seat of the ark of the covenant).

Can't people just make idols and graven images to worship depicting something you DON'T find anywhere else in nature? Why do we have to copy nature all the time? At least give it a twist.

Perhaps some people will say that «There is nothing new under the sun», as in «There is nothing new to be made, It's all been done before!» Well, I was born and raised the son of a designer, and that verse was one that I heard quite often, translating it in my brain into: «Nothing new under the sun? Well guess we got to get busy then; We've been too lazy lately, eh?» In short, the mitzwah in question is a challenge to all designers, architects, engineers and artists to put their mark on NEW and yet UNSEEN creations. The way I see it, the second commandment is a law against plagiarism. An example of early copyright legislation.

plagiarism /ˈpleɪdʒərɪz(ə)m/
noun
Definition: The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Roman church is the false church Jesus is quoted in the bible saying tha. 'that he rejected the stone to build my church' so yes any image of Christ is idolatry this is what the interpretation of Christian purists and why Martin Luther seperated from the church because he saw their hypocrisy